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  Animals in Space (Burgess/Dubbs) (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Animals in Space (Burgess/Dubbs)
ColinBurgess
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posted 07-17-2005 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A notice to all at collectSPACE:

Recently, I mentioned here that I was working on co-authoring a new book dealing with a spaceflight subject. Ordinarily, authors keep any works-in-progress pretty close to their chests, but my co-author and I have agreed that many folks in this eclectic forum could probably assist us in our research, with suitable acknowledgement of their input. It's a fairly open-ended enquiry at this time, but later in the process one or two of you might just hold the key to some valuable information, so we'd appreciate hearing from anyone. You can contact me at my registered collectSPACE e-mail address provided above this message. So here's what's happening:

Philadelphia-based author (and fellow collectSPACER) Chris Dubbs and I have joined forces to research and write a book detailing the complete history of animal space flights, associated biological test research and high-altitude animal balloon flights. A couple of years back Chris had a book published called "Space Dogs: Pioneers of Space Travel," which is a subject that has long been of interest to me. Chris's book was written mostly for a juveline market and was not overly long, but his research was exemplary, so we tossed around the idea of co-writing a definitive history of animal space and high-altitude research flights, embracing specifically the Soviet/CIS and U.S. programs, but also lesser-known ones of other countries.

Chris is concentrating most of his efforts on the space dog flights carried out by the Russians, whilst I am looking at the American monkey programs, Holloman AFB and such.

Our research has progressed extremely well so far and we have made some valuable contacts, but is there anyone out there with a particular interest in any facet of this research and these biological rocket flights who might be able to help us? We are hoping to identify any publications (apart from commonly available books) that might be tucked away in archives and libraries, any government technical reports on animal launches, or translations of relevant Soviet or U.S. reports that could assist us. While the U.S. side of the story is fairly well detailed (apart from the "sham" biological Discoverer program), the early Russian space dog flight program is still shrouded in a degree of mystery and a confusion of contradictory reports, so any help there would be greatly appreciated.

The book, "Animals in Space: From Research Rockets to the Space Shuttle," has been contracted by the publishers for completion in manuscript form by September 2006, and it will be released early in 2007 to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary year of the history-making orbital flight of Laika, back in November 1957.

As mentioned, any early assistance would be greatly appreciated by both of us, and we hope the knowledgable generosity of the good folks at collectSPACE will extend to perhaps answering some specific questions a little further down the track.

Many thanks,

Colin (for Colin and Chris)

Philip
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posted 07-18-2005 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Animals in space... hmmm, don't forget these:

In the 1960s, the French Research Centre for Aeronautical Medicine (CERMA) put three animals on ballistic flights: the rat Hector (1961), the cat Felicette (1963) and the monkey Martine (1967).

Afterwards CNES wondered if it would become involved in manned space flight. Later French Air Force pilot Jean-Loup CHRETIEN became the first Western European to fly in space.

Good luck with the book, I certainly hope you guys will find some great (scarce) photographs to illustrate it!

ColinBurgess
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posted 07-18-2005 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Information on the French program has already been compiled, and a few photographs collected. Obviously, any more information or photographs would be greatly appreciated.

jrkeller
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posted 07-26-2005 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jrkeller   Click Here to Email jrkeller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a website that might interest you.

ColinBurgess
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posted 07-26-2005 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually discovered this fascinating website just a few days back, and you're right - it's a marvelous and well constructed resource that will prove of immense value in compiling this book. I do, however, appreciate very much your suggesting it to me. Thank you.

KSCCCP
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posted 07-26-2005 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCCCP   Click Here to Email KSCCCP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I for one am looking extremely forward to this book. I don't mean to sound critical, but I was very disappointed in Space Dogs. I figured it was focused at a teen audience, but the dramatization approach Chris took really turned me off. I had a hard time even getting through it while silently groaning to myself. The lack of photographs was the icing on the cake, or should I say lack there of.

That being said I feel that this new venture could be exactly what fellow followers of these programs are looking forward to in lieu of the same four images of Laika found on the net to site one example of the lack of information on these subjects.

On November 3 of this year I will be launching my own website that will revolve around and include social commentary on the Soviet space dog program.

You can be assured I will be backing this project to its fullest!

ColinBurgess
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posted 07-27-2005 04:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Be assured this will be a full and authoritative book on the subject of the history of animal space flights and associated research, and our agreed contract with the publishers specifies the use of around 150 photographs to accompany the text. The problem with the Laika photographs is that, as I understand (Chris Dubbs might know better), only a limited number of photographs of Laika have ever been generally released. Some are "doctored" by reversing or colouring them, but you are still left with the same old images. But we'll see what we can come up with. As the book is being released to mark the 50th anniversary of the year of Laika's flight, we plan to have a photo of her on the cover.

I know that Chris did not have too many photos in his book as he had to pay the full copyright figure on those he did use, which was an extremely costly exercise.

Looking forwarding to seeing your site when it becomes available.

KSCCCP
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posted 07-27-2005 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCCCP   Click Here to Email KSCCCP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds great. I figured that most of these images had to be difficult to obtain being from the former Soviet Union. I imagine its also difficult to secure the rights to those that are available. You may want to check (dare I even say it) eBay auctions on the subject as there are a number of postal covers and QSLs that have images I have never seen before even during extensive Yahoo and Google searches. Perhaps you can contact some of the winners to provide you higher resolution scans than what are available in the auction listing. I have attempted this myself from a certain unnamed buyer who has outbid me the last four auctions, but to no avail.

ColinBurgess
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posted 08-09-2005 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One minor point that someone might be able to clear up for me: five mice were carried on the Apollo 17 mission, and some time back I jotted down from a forgotten source that their unofficial names were Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum and Fooey. Can anyone on the collectSPACE forum confirm this for me?

Philip
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posted 08-10-2005 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo 17 Biocore experiment is in detail explained in NASA SP-330 (Preliminary Science Report) chapter 26 which has photos of the pocket mice and their numbers (A-3326, A3400, A3305, A3356 and A-3352). The latter was dead after the flight. The autopsies are described in detail but no 'names' are mentioned.

KSCCCP
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posted 08-10-2005 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCCCP   Click Here to Email KSCCCP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have about a million questions for you Collin. First off, and I realize you didnt write this, the Space Dogs book has many inconsistancies. Most notably about the camera aboard Sputnik 2 and at what time Laika dies durring her flight. I hope you will be able to get to the bottom of the truth when this book goes to publication.

Other than that I'm curious about image rights. Are you getting the images for this book from Novosti? Do most of these images even have rights holders or are they public domain? The reason I ask is there is a website called videocosmos who claim to have 50 images of the Space Dogs that range from $150-$250 to "buy" for print in magazines, books, ect.

I guess thats all for now.

ColinBurgess
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posted 08-10-2005 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In regard to images for publication, and particularly those taken before the disintegration of the old Soviet Union, I've received certain advice from reliable sources on the copyright issue which (hope you don't mind) I'd prefer not to discuss in an open forum such as this.

Having conducted a lot of fresh research into the subject and dismissing a lot of contradictory information, Chris Dubbs agrees with you that there never was a camera loaded aboard Sputnik 2. This came about through some sources incorrectly identifying Sputnik-Korabl 2 (on which a camera was loaded) as Sputnik 2. While Chris is conducting almost all the research and doing the vast majority of writing on the early Soviet dog flights, I can add that I once had the chance to discuss Laika's flight with the amazingly friendly Oleg Gazenko (although without the aid of an interpreter it was hard going) and he told me about the insulation being stripped from Laika's craft that caused the inner temperature to rise to around 40 degrees C, and in regard to her demise he could only tell me that she died "very early" in her flight. However more research might turn up more definitive information than this, as telemetry would have to have given certain indications about the dog's well-being and eventual expiry.

And many thanks to Philip for that information on the Apollo 17 mice - much appreciated.

KSCCCP
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posted 08-10-2005 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCCCP   Click Here to Email KSCCCP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the reply Collin. I guess this is a very tricky area to research being that the Soviet Union at the time wasn't exactly forthcoming in regards to this or any other program for that matter. It's possible you and Chris may be of a small subset of people, especially Americans, who are privy to this information. I can't wait to see what you uncover for the rest of us.

ColinBurgess
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posted 08-14-2005 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank to those who gave me good tips on this subject, and I've now pinned down the source of those names to an interview conducted with Gene Cernan for the long-defunct "Spaceflight News" (No.7). They were indeed unofficially named Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum and Phooey. I'm now a happy camper.

keith.wilson
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posted 08-15-2005 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keith.wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hope the first Australian spiders in space on STS-107 will feature in the new book!

ColinBurgess
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posted 08-15-2005 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Keith: you betcha they will! (BTW, great patch)

Philip
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posted 05-14-2006 05:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What was the first animal to fly on-board a rocket?

We surely know:

The US space program used a monkey, as early as 1949 on modified V-2 rocket, later on-board capsules similar to the Mercury-project capsules.

The Soviets used dogs, Laika was the first animal to orbit the Earth.

Yesterday on BBC-2 I heard that an insect (fly) was the first animal to fly on a V-2 rocket in 1946?

By the way, what's the progress on the book?

ColinBurgess
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posted 05-14-2006 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, you're basically correct in those, although the first US monkey (Albert) was actually launched aboard a V-2 in 1948, and it was a number of fruit flies that were launched as part of a biological package on a reassembled V-2 from White Sands in 1946.

The book is right on schedule; Chris and I are just finishing off a couple of chapters and there's still some more work to be done on shuttle flights that carried animals. We will have the manuscript to the publishers in September, and it will be released early next year to commemorate the 50-year anniversary of Laika's flight.

Philip
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posted 05-15-2006 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting listing! Non-human astronauts

cspg
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posted 06-16-2006 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Info gathered from Springer's website:

Animals in Space: From Research Rockets to the Space Shuttle
Series: Springer Praxis Books
Subseries: Space Exploration
Burgess, Colin, Dubbs, Chris
2007, Approx. 350 p., 160 illus., Softcover.
ISBN: 0-387-36053-0
Due: April 2007

This book is intended as a detailed, but highly readable and balanced account of the history of animal space flights, and the resultant application of hard-won research to space technology and astrobiology.

Animals in Space will explain why dogs, primates, mice and other rodents were chosen and tested, at a time when dedicated scientists from both space nations were determined to establish the survivability of human subjects on both ballistic and orbital space flights. It will also recount the way this happened; the secrecy involved and the methods employed, and offer an objective analysis of how the role of animals as
spaceflight test subjects not only evolved, but subsequently changed over the years in response to a public outcry led by animal activists. It will explore the ways in which animal high-altitude and space flight research impacted on space flight biomedicine and technology, and how the results - both successful and disappointing - allowed human beings to then undertake that same hazardous journey with far greater understanding and confidence.

This book will undoubtedly become the ultimate authority on animal space flights.

ColinBurgess
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posted 06-16-2006 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris Dubbs and I are pleased to report that this book will be completed on time in manuscript form in September. Given that Praxis have probably allowed for delays along the way, the book may even be out a tad earlier than April.

Could I just take this opportunity to thank those people on the collectSPACE forum who have responded to our queries or supplied photographs over the past year or so. It has been greatly appreciated and there will be some familiar names listed in the Acknowledgements section.

Philip
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posted 06-22-2006 05:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Really enjoyed the 'Monkey in blue suit' article of Dwayne Day (again with superb photos) in BIS Spaceflight issue of July 2006, never knew the USAF went ahead with such a program.

Dwayne Day
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posted 06-22-2006 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Really enjoyed the 'Monkey in blue suit' article of Dwayne Day ( again with superb photos ) in BIS Spaceflight issue of July 2006, never knew the USAF went ahead with such a program.
To clarify: I did not write the article. Colin Burgess and I co-wrote it and I'm pretty happy with it.

As I wrote in the BIS Spaceflight thread elsewhere, it's nice to be able to shed some light on this subject. In all my research on the Discoverer/CORONA program, I never found much mention of the monkey flight program. It's not in the official histories or even in the documents. At most I think I've seen one or two cryptic references to it. And as I think we mentioned in a footnote in the Spaceflight article, I have a vague recollection of reading a comment that the program fell behind schedule and was canceled.

But Colin and I managed to dig up some more sources. Of these, the most significant are the photographs themselves, which confirm that they actually built and tested hardware. Also significant is the overview of the program that we found that provided information on the monkey testing procedures and the research program, as well as the development of the capsule (or "life cell").

There are still a lot of unknown details concerning this project, such as how much it cost, who ran it, when it reached major milestones and so on. But those are not the most important questions in the space program. It's just that I'd like to have something more definitive concerning what really happened.

MCroft04
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posted 06-22-2006 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also enjoyed the "Monkey in blue suit" article in BIS. Thanks Dwayne and Colin!

ColinBurgess
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posted 01-17-2007 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Back in December 2004, Chris Dubbs made a plea on collectSPACE for anyone who might have some photos of Russian space dogs that might complement those he already had for an upcoming exhibit called "Pupniks" at the New Mexico Museum of Space History. I already knew of Chris through collectSPACE and his book for younger readers, "Space Dogs." I was among those who helped with photos from my files, and after we'd been corresponding for a while we decided to collaborate on a book dealing with the full history of animal space flights.

I am delighted to say that just a little over two years later, Chris and I have now received the first copies of our new Springer-Praxis book, "Animals in Space: From Research Rockets to the Space Shuttle." We are very much indebted to several people in this forum, and their kind assistance has been acknowledged in the book.

Now all you have to do is make us millionaires by rushing out and buying copies direct from the publishers, or from such online stores as Amazon.com. It is the definitive story of animal space flight and associated research, and is chock-full of some great new photos. It was also designed for release this year to celebrate the 50th year anniversary of Laika.

Chris had to conduct some incredibly difficult research for this book, and he came up trumps, as you will discover when you read it. He and I are truly thrilled to have worked together on this book after collectSPACE introduced us to each other, and we already have plans for another exciting project in the future.

On behalf of myself and Chris, thanks Robert; thanks collectSPACE; and Thank You to everyone here who helped to make this book a reality.

mdmyer
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posted 01-17-2007 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mdmyer   Click Here to Email mdmyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just pre-ordered my copy and I am looking forward to seeing my name in the credits as one of the people who helped with the book. Glad I could help and I plan on asking you to sign the book. You are just going to have to cancel your train trip and fly to the Cape show.

MCroft04
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posted 01-17-2007 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The interviews must have been interesting (with the animals of course)!

ColinBurgess
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posted 01-17-2007 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, your name (and one of the photographs you took for me) appears in the book.

Mel, one of them was a real Ham!

Philip
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posted 01-18-2007 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does the book have photos of the mice & rats etc... who flew in space?

ColinBurgess
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posted 01-18-2007 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Philip, it sure does.

heng44
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posted 01-18-2007 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for heng44   Click Here to Email heng44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations Colin (and Chris)!

I remember attending a press conference at KSC shortly before STS-8, which carried a bunch of rats IIRC. Shuttle launch director Bob Sieck was asked if the rats had names, to which he replied: "They have numbers, just like everybody else".

ColinBurgess
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posted 01-18-2007 03:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your memory is just fine, Ed. There were indeed six white Lewis Wistar rats on that flight, and like the two monkeys carried on STS 51-B they were officially given numbers. The two monkeys were called 3165 and 384-80 in lieu of pet names, although they were more easily known as Specimen 1 and Specimen 2.

DavidH
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posted 01-18-2007 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've pre-ordered my copy. Look forward to reading it!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-18-2007 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DavidH:
I've pre-ordered my copy. Look forward to reading it!
Ditto -- just ordered through Amazon.

Though I had very little if anything to do with this book directly, I'm still proud that collectSPACE was able to bring Colin and Chris together to author what I am sure is an excellent book. I look forward to reading it.

mdmyer
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posted 01-18-2007 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mdmyer   Click Here to Email mdmyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We know that Colin will not be at the Cape show but what about Chris? Is he planning on going to the show?

Chris Dubbs
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posted 01-18-2007 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chris Dubbs   Click Here to Email Chris Dubbs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend the show either this year. While Colin is flitting about Russia, I am bound to the unforgiving schedule of my regular job.

I regret not yet having had the opportunity to attend any of the events where cS's congregate. I very much enjoy being part of this wonderful network and look forward to the chance to meet some of you folks in the future.

FFrench
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posted 02-08-2007 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amazon.com are doing a good discount deal right now on buying this book of Colin's and Chris's along with the book Colin and I wrote - see about halfway down this page (not sure how long they'll keep this offer up).

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-20-2007 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Waiting in my mailbox this evening was a copy of Animals in Space, via Amazon. I've already begun reading but couldn't resist flipping through the chapters — Chris and Colin, you've outdone yourselves. If the glimpse I got from quickly browsing is even half as good as the full read, then you've both produced an awesomely-thorough reference book.

Chris Dubbs
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posted 02-21-2007 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chris Dubbs   Click Here to Email Chris Dubbs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Robert. Appreciate the kind words. Colin and I certainly feel as though we've swept up nearly every scrap of information about the use of animals in space and made the case for the vital role they have played.

Half the enjoyment of working on this project was connecting with people inside of NASA and other space programs, as well as the wonderful resource of the cS network of experts, many of whom supported our work in various ways. In fact, as has already been pointed out earlier in this post, this book would never have happened without CollectSPACE.

ColinBurgess
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posted 02-21-2007 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, ditto.


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