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Author Topic:   Question for spacecraft films
carmelo
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From: messina,sicilia,italia
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posted February 13, 2005 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carmelo   Click Here to Email carmelo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A DVD set about MOL program? Why not?

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
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posted February 14, 2005 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of all, before I answer the above question:

Apollo 9 is now in, it came in late this afternoon. They will start shipping tomorrow.

Now, for MOL.

I have been considering for some time now creating a disc on the 1960's planned military space programs - but the centerpiece will be a fictional 30-minute product as if the programs (primarily MOL/Blue Gemini and Dyna-Soar) actually were carried through. In addition to this piece we would include the footage that does exist, such as some of the early Dyna-soar footage and MOL footage. We would also include a considerable slideshow on the programs.

This would be a bit different (an alternate history) in that the fictional part would be accurate, based upon the programs as they were planned, and would be accurate to physics (i.e. no "whooshes" in a vacuum.) The fictional piece would be created from CGI and real photography, with something of a storyline (already done) within which the "missions" take place. I have another draft of a disc like this dealing with a Direct Ascent mode voyage to the moon, using a NOVA vehicle (and another idea about the 1981 manned landing on Mars using NOVA and a nuclear upper stage that we all so proudly remember happening).

Would anyone else find something like this interesting (providing it is well done and isn't a hack job - which I wouldn't do) or am I just off on one of my strange production-idea tangents? (I have a million of 'em)

Mark

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted February 15, 2005 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark ... while You think about that ... meanwhile make a DVD-set on the exploration of the red planet MARS ;-)

Upcoming;
40th anniversary Mariner IV fly by ( 1964 )
30th Anniversary Viking landings ( 1976 )
http://mars-literature.skynetblogs.be/

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Dwight
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From: Germany
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posted February 15, 2005 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwight   Click Here to Email Dwight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Mark, if you haven't already seen this work take a peek over at:
http://manconquersspace.com/

Maybe you could join forces?

Cheers,
Dwight

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted February 15, 2005 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am aware of Man Conquers Space, and of Deep Cold. I'm not sure the timeline on MCS, as it has been around for a while and seems to be tied up among many now. I think it is a great concept, but I would like to focus on something a little closer to reality, such as the projects mentioned. I think MCS is very, very cool and I hope we get to see it completed some day.

Mark

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
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posted February 15, 2005 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And Phillip, nothing of this sort will affect timelines on our other work. As we complete Apollo this year I'm just looking at exploration of some other material. One of those items is a real in-depth look at unmaned probes, from Explorer 1 through each of the planets, including one on probes to examine Earth.

I will probably group them by planet. Although in some cases I may group by spacecraft. Since I haven't fully researched them yet it is difficult to say for sure.

Mark

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted February 15, 2005 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark ... if I may give my opinion ...
Better to build DVD-sets per planet ( e.g. Mercury + Venus as a set , Earth could fill a set by it self , Mars also , a DVD-set of Spacecraft to the outer planets, might even build a set on solar explorers and comet chasing vehicles )
Just my opinion ;-)

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Mark Zimmer
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posted February 15, 2005 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark Zimmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd agree with Philip; sets by planet would make the most sense to me from a presentation standpoint. I might make an exception for Voyager I and II because they're kind of special cases, but otherwise sets by the planets are the way I'd like to see them.

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
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posted February 16, 2005 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the input. I will probably do an overall set per planet and then do some specialized stuff on things like Viking and Voyager. The larger projects probably warrant their own in-depth studies.

And Apollo 9 is, indeed, shipping. We're not done with all the pre-orders yet, but should be by the end of the week.

Liftoff is now complete and will be out around March 5, and I'm enjoying work on Apollo 12 at the present time. I should have a new preview up on line sometime tomorrow or Friday.

Best,
Mark Gray
Spacecraft Films

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Brezelfish
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From: Nuremberg, Germany
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posted February 18, 2005 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brezelfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah! Please make some DVDs about unmanned planet probes. That should be hight priority now. Its our present and we want some good DVDs finally
Apollo and earlier is cool, but we want some "new" "modern" stuff now ;-)
Mars would be the perfect planet for the first DVD Set!
From the first probes to MER.

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted February 18, 2005 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well there're certainly some great video-images at the JPL archive, so if well-researched following DVD-sets on Mars would be desirable:

Mariner 4 + 6 + 7 + 9 reconnaissance of Mars.

Viking 1 & 2 Orbiters & Landers exploration of Mars.

Global Surveyor, Mars Odyssey and Mars Express photograph Mars from orbit.

Pathfinder-Sojourner and both Mars Exploration Rovers conduct intensive studies of Mars.

... can't wait ;-) http://mars-literature.skynetblogs.be/

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted October 22, 2005 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just reminding this to Spacecraft Films ;-)
( 2006 = 30th anniversary of Viking Mars 1976 )

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted October 22, 2005 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a good reminder.

I'm finishing up Mercury this week, and have everything in on Apollo 14, plus have a surprise that will be released in a few weeks (having something to do with Apollo), and am trying to decide the exact order of things for next year.

We will most definitely get Skylab and Space Shuttle development out next year, and probably 2-4 others (in addition of Apollo 14 and Challenger, which are coming right up)...

Right now here's what I expect to come out and when:

THESE ARE ESTIMATES

Mercury (6 DVDs) - 11/15 (going to masters right now)

Surprise Apollo Release (1 or 2 DVDs) - December 1

Challenger (3 DVDs) - January 28, 2006

Apollo 14 (5 DVDs) - January 31, 2006

Plus:

Space Shuttle Development (3 DVDs) with ALT and STS 1-4

Skylab (6 or 7 DVDs)

The X-15 (3 DVDs)

ASTP (2 DVDs)

Plus 1 or 2 other projects. We could put Viking on line for one of these projects. Or the Atlas Liftoff set.

Mark


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gliderpilotuk
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From: London, UK
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posted October 22, 2005 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm drooling over that list. Can't wait to see the Mercury and x-15 DVDs.
And how about one on the "Pre-Astronauts" next?

Paul Bramley

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ALAIN
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From: GENT, Belgium
Registered: Apr 2001

posted October 23, 2005 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALAIN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark, try to work on an Unmanned mission DVD so You could see the intrest for this kind of publication. Those interested in Mars missions have been waiting soo long :-(
Indeed, a DVD towards the end of next year would make a superb Christmas 2006 gift!

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted October 23, 2005 07:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, Spacecraft Films already supports the idea of making DVDs on the Unmanned space exploration categorized per planet ;-)
Just wait & see ... http://mars-literature.skynetblogs.be/

[This message has been edited by Philip (edited October 23, 2005).]

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D-Day
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posted October 23, 2005 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D-Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hadn't seen this thread before, but just read some of the early posts about Blue Gemini, MOL and Dyna-Soar.

A big problem with doing anything on BG and MOL is that the published information on them is very scarce and also misleading. I have managed to obtain a huge number of MOL documents and also some Blue Gemini documents, but have not published anything on this myself (no time).

I think that there is a popular misunderstanding that "Blue Gemini" was the name of the MOL Gemini flights. But actually, BG was the first proposal for adapting Gemini to Air Force use. This was quickly abandoned in favor of building a dedicated space station, initially called MODS, then renamed MOL.

But as I explained in several articles in Spaceflight magazine a few years ago, there is a whole missing chapter in that story as well. The Air Force started out with the Man In Space Soonest (MISS) program, which was officially canceled when NASA was created and placed in charge of Mercury. But the Air Force continued a human spaceflight program in secrecy. Little documentation on this exists, but one of the MISS proposals was adapted for reconnaissance purposes because the Air Force hoped to take the camera out and put a man in at some point. They proposed chimp flights in 1960, leading eventually to a manned flight. But they got stomped down on this. By 1962 NASA was evaluating the "Mercury Mark II"--Gemini--and the Air Force was involved in the launch vehicle support for that. They proposed that they be allowed to fly some Air Force Gemini vehicles. They wanted to do this in stages, with joint NASA-Air Force crews for several missions, followed by all-Air Force crews for later missions. I believe they proposed about a dozen flights in all, presumably some of these would have taken the place of NASA's actual Gemini missions. Ultimately, the Air Force had to settle for having some experiments carried on Gemini, and they switched their interest to MODS, then MOL.

MOL was always in trouble. I found and then lost a great document from late 1964 from one MOL official to another complaining about the fact that the program had not progressed in the past year. They simply were unable to define what it was supposed to do.

Around 1965 or so, MOL transitioned from a "let's see if there are any military man in space missions" program to an operational reconnaissance satellite mission. It became highly classified at this time and the documentary record simply dries up. The government will not release any documents on this subject. I have it from good authority that the late MOL design was essentially like a Hubble space telescope with a Gemini stuck on the front, with the telescope pointed down. (Note that this is not what most of the unclassified illustrations of the spacecraft show.)

Once MOL became focused, it could progress. But it was then compared to unmanned reconnaissance satellites, which were much more capable and reliable by the later 1960s than they had been before. MOL no longer made sense and got canceled.

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Blackarrow
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From: BELFAST, UNITED KINGDOM
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posted October 23, 2005 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is Spacecraftfilms limited to American footage? One of the most fascinating subjects for a DVD set would surely be all available footage of the development and launches of the Soviet N-1 Moon-rocket. In recent years, footage of at least three of the four launch attempts has become available (and its mindblowing!) but I don't believe I have seen everything that is now available. A DVD set of the N-1 is surely an essential project to give the complete picture of manned lunar exploration programmes.

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
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posted October 24, 2005 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree... and the ASTP set this coming year will be my first venture into determining what, if anything, can be done with Soviet footage similar to what we've done with U.S. footage.

I have no idea how that will turn out. One the first places for me to start on this is videocosmos... but I have no idea how that will go, how deep that access goes, etc. I just haven't gotten into that part of it yet.... but intend to see in 2006.

Mark

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Blackarrow
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From: BELFAST, UNITED KINGDOM
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posted October 24, 2005 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,

That's very encouraging. We should all remember that the magnificent Saturn 5 was the most powerful SUCCESSFUL rocket ever built, but the MOST powerful rocket ever launched (albeit unsuccessfully) was the N-1. To understand the space race properly, it is necessary to see the Soviet rival Moon-rocket in action. I hope you find good sources of information and lots of film that maybe hasn't been widely viewed yet.

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Armando
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posted October 24, 2005 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Armando   Click Here to Email Armando     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think having aa DVD on the N1 a great idea. Another possibility is a DVD with a - let's call it "a summary" - of Soviet manned spaceflight, with footage from the most relevant manned launches. The N1, of course, would be one of the most interesting ones.

It is hard to come by good quality footage of the Soviet space program. This is where Spacecraftfilm's ability to make available high-quality footage would come in hand.

Armando

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Dwight
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From: Germany
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posted October 25, 2005 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwight   Click Here to Email Dwight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I understand it, the treaties and agreements reached as a result of ASTP resulted in a more open information trade on the Soviets' part. This hopefully means that material for ASTP should be "easily" obtainable as this was the showcase event for these agreements.

I will be meeting the two Cosmonauts in a few days, so I can grill them about the archives in Russia, as they may have an insight.

Cheers,

Dwight

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Philip
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From: Brussels, BELGIUM
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posted October 28, 2005 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spacecraft Films related topics are ' HOT ' this month ...
Unfortunately as far as March 2007 no Unmanned spaceflight related DVD releases :-(...

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Brezelfish
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From: Nuremberg, Germany
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posted November 07, 2005 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brezelfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah :-(
Where are the promised planet DVDs??
(Mars probes)

Not again more rocket or war DVDs please! :-((

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nelyubov
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posted November 07, 2005 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nelyubov   Click Here to Email nelyubov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark:

You go ahead and make anything you want -- just right after you finish one on Apollo 1.
In regards to Soviet Space DVD's -- one covering the early launches and training of the first 20 cosmonauts would be great too! You know with guys like NELYUBOV !!

Thanks for creating these wonderful DVD's. My son gets a first hand look of what MY childhood excitement was like.

Mark C.

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heng44
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posted November 09, 2005 03:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for heng44   Click Here to Email heng44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see Mark has lifted the veil on the "surprise Apollo set"...

Ed

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
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posted November 09, 2005 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ed,

Yes, it is a bit different than our other material, but I ran across this stuff when I was at the archives, and they are really loaded with fascinating material, including explanations of things I'd never seen before, so I thought they were worthwhile to make available. They are black and white, but the quality on them given when they were created is really quite good.

I especially like the program on the guidance computer, which shows how the scopes slew from DSKY commands, shows how the hardware was created and how the DSKY operates. It was shot in the lab at MIT. The LM program was shot at Grumman and Tom Kelly gives the tour. There's just a lot of great stuff, and over five hours of it, so I thought it was worthwhile to make it available.

I kept it on two DVDs because I didn't know how many of these were actually going to be in good enough shape after I made the transfers, but they were all in good shape with the audio intact. As it turned out I was able to get them all (dealing with Apollo). I also included a film on the Apollo 4 mission (color) and the program on the Surveyor probes.

Mark

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ABDUL
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From: KERALA
Registered: Jun 2005

posted November 10, 2005 05:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ABDUL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,
Mercury status?
We hope it started duplicating.
Abdul

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spacecraft films
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From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted November 10, 2005 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Masters have started duplicating, but I don't have a final delivery date from the replicator. I should have that any day.

Mark

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