Douglas Skystreak, Skyrocket pilots autographs

Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

collectSPACE: Messages

Autographs

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: Douglas Skystreak, Skyrocket pilots autographs
micropooz Member Posts: 1512 From: Washington, DC, USA Registered: Apr 2003	posted 11-21-2010 08:02 PM Over on another forum, we got into a discussion of the lesser-known pilots for the Douglas Skystreak and rocket-powered Skyrocket experimental aircraft of the 1940's - 1950's. Most of us have seen the autographs of the more famous pilots: Scott Crossfield, Pete Everest, John McKay, and Joe Walker. In the other forum is a cover showing the autos of Marion Carl, Bob Champine, and Stan Butchart, three of the less-well-known pilots. But what of the many other unsung pilots of these two pioneering planes? I can fill in a few! Below is Turner Caldwell on a cover. I have no idea of the significance of the cover postmark (Arlington, Va., Sept 14, 1947), but bought it for the auto: And Bill Bridgeman from my autographed copy of "The Lonely Sky": Also Gene May, from this cover carried on the 3rd flight of the Skystreak on May 29, 1947: And last, but not least, John Martin, from this cover flown on the first flight of the Skyrocket on February 4, 1948: So how about some of the others? Howard Lilly was killed flying the Skystreak, so he may have never signed. Anyone seen one? How about Walter Jones? Guys named Peyton, Trapnell, and Jansen who flew the Skystreak? I think I have seen some John Griffiths out there, but don't have one. A guy named Davis who flew the Skyrocket? Al Boyd? Please post if you have any of these! Thanks!
Bob M Member Posts: 1744 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000	posted 11-22-2010 01:30 PM Dennis, thanks for sharing those quite scarce/rare autographs with us. There evidently were a lot of little-known test pilots who flew the D-558's and surely many of their autographs are elusive at best. I've even been unable to find a complete listing of all the D-558-1/Skystreak and D-558-2/Skyrocket pilots. A while back we discussed the difficulty of acquiring autographs of the nineteen Bell X-1 pilots and it looks like that acquiring even 13-14 of the 19 would be exceptional. Acquiring autographs of the 12 X-15 pilots is quite possible, however, but difficult and expensive. Using the excellent "The X-Planes" book by Jay Miller, I've made lists of the pilots who flew the early X-planes and note that acquiring autographs of most of those pilots would be quite difficult also. While a complete set of autographs of the X-15 pilots is possible, it looks to be near impossible for almost all the other early X-planes, including the two D-558's. X-1: 19 pilots X-1A: 4 pilots "Skip" Ziegler - died 1953 Chuck Yeager Kit Murray Joe Walker X-1B: 10 pilots Jack Ridley Murray Robt. Stephens Stuart Childs Hanes Harer Holtoner Everest McKay Armstrong X-1D: 1 flight and one pilot, Ziegler X-1E: two pilots Walker McKay X-2 Ziegler Everest Kincheloe - died 1958 Apt- died 1956 X-3 Stilleto: 4 pilots Everest Bridgeman Walker Yeager X-4 Bantam: 12 pilots including George Cooper Walter Jones J.S. Nash Charles Tucker X-5: 11 pilots including Walter Jones Ray Popson John Reeder "Skip" Ziegler So, except for the X-15 and X-1E (Walker and McKay), and maybe the X-3, it looks like putting together complete sets of pilot autographs for the other X-planes and the two D-558's is not possible. It is a shame that many of us who admire these brave and skilled early test pilots, and what they accomplished, find that for many of them, their autographs are unavailable and even possibly non-existent.
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004	posted 11-22-2010 04:02 PM Dennis, WONDERFUL signatures!!! Here's Al Boyd's (on a letter to Kit Murray): And here's Stan Butchart, Scott Crossfield, Marion Carl, Pete Everest, Bob Champine and John Griffith. If anyone has a Howard Lilly, please contact me off-list!!
bobslittlebro Member Posts: 179 From: Douglasville, Ga U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2009	posted 11-22-2010 05:32 PM Again,great looking items!
micropooz Member Posts: 1512 From: Washington, DC, USA Registered: Apr 2003	posted 11-22-2010 06:36 PM Cool sigs Derek! Thanks for sharing!!! And if anyone has a Howard Lilly, please remember that I mentioned it before Derek did...
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-22-2010 07:57 PM A great topic by THE X-Plane guy and his sidekick chiming in! Dennis, are you referring to Griffith signatures on D 558 covers or in general? He's still around and a prolific signer.
Chuck_Joe Member Posts: 62 From: Belgium Registered: Dec 2002	posted 11-23-2010 01:01 PM The autograph of Turner Caldwell is very interesting. The last 10 years I was in contact for my book with a lot of test pilots and their families. One of them was Turner Caldwell. He was a great naval aviator during WW2 and he established a world speed record on August 20, 1947 with the Skystreak. He ended his great career in 1971 as Vice-Admiral. Nice item.
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-23-2010 03:36 PM When did he pass on?
micropooz Member Posts: 1512 From: Washington, DC, USA Registered: Apr 2003	posted 11-23-2010 06:06 PM Ditto what albatron said! Not much info out there on Turner Caldwell, so please let us know! Thanks!!!
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-23-2010 08:11 PM Okay, here you go so you guys can laugh at me (Dennis and Bob). This is my measly D558 cover collection. This first set of 3, is (top to bottom) the closest I have to a "D558 cover". So as you can see, not very close. Explanation below: The top two are commemorative covers I like and have in various series. As I was scanning them I was mentally kicking myself for not adding Champine, Everest, Crossfield and Carl to the top D558-I cover, as I had it back then. The middle I've no idea why I didn't add Carl. And the bottom is of course the Milestone of Flight mach 2 cover. I should add Fitz Fulton and Charlie Bock to it as they dropped him.
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-23-2010 08:28 PM The top two covers are homemade ones. This was from the way early days when I had no clue (stop it...). The top one is an unusual D 558 II event, I had canceled these covers for another event I can't recall, and while playing noticed it was this anniversary. Thanks to Randy Cannon for his advice in making it and the images. The middle one is one I added the six pilots too. No Lilly, no Caldwell, no Bridgeman, sorry. They'd all passed by then, I am just happy to have added Carl and Butchart. Not the best media, but the signatures are great. The bottom one, is by the great Pete Sarmiento, who, like Bob and Dennis, shame me. And kindly gave me that cover. Hey Derek, that in-flight pic of the D 588 II photo signed by six looks suspiciously familiar.
micropooz Member Posts: 1512 From: Washington, DC, USA Registered: Apr 2003	posted 11-24-2010 05:24 AM Measly? No. Cool? Most definitely! Thanks for sharing these great covers Al!
Bob M Member Posts: 1744 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000	posted 11-24-2010 12:09 PM Al, your "measly" D-558-2 covers look pretty impressive to me and I'm the one with the measly D-558 covers, as all I have is that one Smithsonian NASM anniversary cover for Crossfield's Mach-2 flight. I missed the boat with the Douglas D-558-1 and -2 programs and didn't realize what a significant flight test program it was and what a bunch of flights and pilots it had. It was an early flight test program, ending in 1956, so evidently few flight covers were produced, so mainly anniversary covers exist for the D-558 program (?). But cover servicers and collectors got busy for the X-15 program, and later for the Lifting Body Program, as collectors have plenty of those covers to find. And as far as autographs go, it's no problem finding autographs of all the Lifting Body pilots (M2-F1, M2-F2, M2-F3, HL-10, X-24A and X-24B). By the way, were there many/any covers created for the X-1 flights?
Chuck_Joe Member Posts: 62 From: Belgium Registered: Dec 2002	posted 11-24-2010 12:58 PM VADM Turner Caldwell was born on November 17, 1913 in Narbeth, Virginia. He died on October 12, 1991. For his speed record flight at Muroc he received the DFC.
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-24-2010 01:09 PM quote: Originally posted by Bob M: I missed the boat with the Douglas D-558-1 and -2 programs and didn't realize what a significant flight test program it was and what a bunch of flights and pilots it had. Of course I got started late also, thanks to ChuckJoe (thank you for the info) we just found out Caldwell died in 1991, although I do recall trying to track him down prior to his death unsuccessfully. quote: It was an early flight test program, ending in 1956, so evidently few flight covers were produced, so mainly anniversary covers exist for the D-558 program (?). I agree. quote: But cover servicers and collectors got busy for the X-15 program, and later for the Lifting Body Program, as collectors have plenty of those covers to find. And as far as autographs go, it's no problem finding autographs of all the Lifting Body pilots (M2-F1, M2-F2, M2-F3, HL-10, X-24A and X-24B). I had sent one to Cec Powell signed by the surviving ones back when Jerry Gentry and the rest signed prolifically (and were still here) also signed by Milt. Somewhere in transit it got lost. Sadly this is the risk we take with these. Another difficult thing is trying to find out who the drop pilots for the LB's, and pre X-15 were! No easy feat! At least with the X-15 they are well documented. While this is true, the X-15 is much easier than trying to get ALL of the D558 pilots, that's no easy task for McKay and especially, Adams. quote: By the way, were there many/any covers created for the X-1 flights? I know of only one or two, and I'm doing this from recall that isn't always correct.
micropooz Member Posts: 1512 From: Washington, DC, USA Registered: Apr 2003	posted 11-24-2010 04:20 PM For Bob, here's what I know about X-1 covers, and the bottom line is that there aren't many. Ellington-Zwisler Vol 2 lists a cover flown on Yeager's infamous X-1A speed record flight on December 12, 1953. I've never seen it in an exhibit nor heard of anyone who has actually seen it, so its owner must have it very well tucked away. Beatrice Bachman has what she calls an X-1 cover from 1954 in her exhibit. However, I could never correlate its postmark date with an X-1A or B flight date (those were the two versions of the X-1 flying at that time). I've found a few postcards that were mailed on X-1 flight dates from Mojave, but have yet to luck out and find any Muroc/Edwards covers that correspond to an X-1 flight date.
Bob M Member Posts: 1744 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000	posted 11-28-2010 08:25 AM Thanks, Dennis. Obviously, cover servicers didn't enter the picture until after the X-1 program ended, nor did many collectors send off covers to be canceled for X-1 flights to the area post offices. But thru the years, there have been a number of anniversary covers done for the Oct.14, 1947 1st supersonic flight, including a FD of Issue stamp, so the X-1 program is well represented in that regard. And it appears that the D-558-1/Skystreak and D-558-2/Skyrocket flights weren't "covered" very well, either. But cover servicers, dealers and collectors sure made up for lost time when the famous X-15 program began, for as you know, the X-15 program was "covered" very well with only about a dozen flights out of the 199 free flights not accounted for.
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000	posted 11-28-2010 07:01 PM You'll hate me for this segue but you did bring up X-15 flight covers. Has anyone tried to add drop pilots to various flight covers? I've added some to various flights I have (I'm obviously not sending out my Armstrong, McKay or Adams signed covers), and even have a few signed by ONLY the drop pilot crews. On one or two I've even added chase pilots.
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004	posted 11-29-2010 07:14 AM I bought the photograph from Randy Cannon on Astro-Auction with all bar John Griffith's signature on and mailed it to him a couple of years ago (sweated that one out a few weeks I can tell you!). I seem to recall it was you that pointed it out to me Al and am glad you did. I lost a bunch of Skyrocket multi-signed items in the mail to Stan Butchart including: and this 1962 NASA Dryden group shot: But am glad to still have:
Bob M Member Posts: 1744 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000	posted 11-29-2010 07:20 AM quote: Originally posted by albatron: Has anyone tried to add drop pilots to various flight covers? Of course, a good idea, especially for those who have pursued X-15 flight covers, with many signed by the pilots. Perhaps having all the flight covers not signed by the pilots signed by various support and program officials - one per cover? I kinda did that with the X-24B Program and had flight covers that were not signed by the pilots, signed by other significant personnel. Wish I had started earlier and done that with the X-15 program!
dtemple Member Posts: 729 From: Longview, Texas, USA Registered: Apr 2000	posted 12-21-2010 03:32 PM This is a great thread! Here's a sampling of autographs of some of the more obscure test pilots from my collection (though it diverges a bit from the original topic):