posted 05-09-2007 05:26 AM            

Unfortunately, Bill Anders backed out choosing instead to make a donation to charity followed soon after by Frank Borman.

Now that would have been one hell of a line-up...

posted 03-07-2010 02:07 PM               

We had a brief, pleasant chat about his autograph fees for charity -- he has offered signed "Earthrise" items for $2,500 on behalf of his Heritage Flight Museum, ASF, and other organizations. He emphasized that the fees go directly to the charity so the buyer gets the tax deduction.

After the event, I wrote Gen. Anders a letter in which I suggested that he consider lowering his fee to $1,000 or less.

My argument was that he would increase his yield for charity by increased volume since few of us can afford $2,500. I also pointed out that John Young, who flew six times in space and twice to the Moon, charges about $500 and that Anders' fee was five times this amount.

I didn't hear anything back until last week when I received a letter from Gen. Anders:

Thanks for your suggestions on autograph pricing but I'm sticking to my $2,500 since every time I donate a signed "Earthrise" photo to a charity auction it always gets my minimum allowed bid ($2,500) and generally more. Since the bid funds go to charity, not my pocket, there is a 40% "discount."

Indeed, John Young has flown a lot more than I have but he wasn't on the first flight from the Earth, did not take the "Earthrise," his autograph is quite common, and he can't complete an Apollo astronaut autograph collection!

posted 03-07-2010 04:17 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul23:
Did he sign the letter?!

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LOL! Yes, he signed it "Bill" but with one of his atypical signatures-- there was a hook near the top of the downstroke in the letter B.

posted 03-07-2010 06:39 PM               

It's the lack of availability that makes it so expensive, and his peddling of Earthrise is a perfect venue to add Borman and Lovell on to complete a crew signed (significant) piece.

He mulled it over for a few minutes, I got excited thinking I "got through" and then he says "nahhh". LOL

posted 03-08-2010 03:49 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by dss65:
I've come to pretty much accept that.

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posted 03-08-2010 05:06 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacefest:
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history.

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posted 03-08-2010 05:54 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacefest:
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history.

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He was a fighter pilot and nuclear engineer who held many positions in government and industry after he left NASA. He is a very bright guy.

Here are a few excerpts of his biography:

He received a Bachelor of Science degree from the United States Naval Academy in 1955 and a Master of Science degree in nuclear engineering from the Air Force Institute of Technology at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, in 1962. Anders completed the Harvard Business School Advanced Management Program in 1979.

After graduating from the Naval Academy, Anders took his commission in the U.S. Air Force and served as a fighter pilot in all-weather interceptor squadrons of the Air Defense Command. He later was responsible for technical management of nuclear power reactor shielding and radiation effects programs while at the Air Force Weapons Laboratory in New Mexico.

From 1969 to 1973, Anders served as executive secretary for the National Aeronautics and Space Council, which was responsible to the president, vice president and Cabinet-level members of the Council for developing policy options concerning research, development, operations and planning of aeronautical and space systems.

On August 6, 1973, Anders was appointed to the five-member Atomic Energy Commission, where he was lead commissioner for nuclear and non-nuclear power R&D. Following the reorganization of national nuclear regulatory and developmental activities on January 19, 1975, Anders was named by President Ford to become the first chairman of the newly established Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which is responsible for nuclear safety and environmental compatibility.

At the completion of his term as NRC Chairman, Anders was appointed ambassador to Norway and held that position until 1977, when he left the federal government after 26 years.

Anders joined General Electric in September 1977. As vice president and general manager of GE's Nuclear Products Division in San Jose, California, he was responsible for the manufacture of nuclear fuel, reactor internal equipment, and control and instrumentation for GE boiling-water reactors at facilities located in San Jose and Wilmington, North Carolina.

In 1980, Anders was appointed general manager of the General Electric Aircraft Equipment Division.

In 1984, he left GE to join Textron as executive vice president for aerospace, and two years later became senior executive vice president for operations.

In 1990, Anders became vice chairman of General Dynamics, and on January 1, 1991, its chairman and CEO. He retired in 1993 but remained chairman until May 1994.

posted 03-08-2010 10:17 PM               

He is rarely seen in public unless (at his behest) the Apollo 8 crew gathers for a reunion or a TV opportunity.

It is widely held that he joined GD at just the right time, advancing by luck, not becoming a billionaire through a brilliant business mind, He just was CEO when the company was sold.

Lovell, Borman (and Collins, Cunningham and Roosa) all graduated from Harvard Advanced Business School, too.

I'm not saying Anders will be forgotten because he won't sign autographs, rather his reclusive style will do it.

posted 03-09-2010 01:52 AM               

As for Anders' explanation why his own autograph is so valuable, his letter doesn't provide the facts.

• His signature is not valuable because he flew on Apollo 8...Lovell and Borman share that honor, held more critical mission roles, and still charge less than $200 for their signatures.
• His signature is not valuable because he took the earthrise photo...he only got the privilege because thousands of men and women across America gave him the opportunity to do so. Lovell or Borman could have just as easily snapped that photo (and would have, if they were holding the camera).
• His signature is not valuable because it "completes" a collection. Collectors complete collections. And arguably, nice Roosa or Swigert autographs are now more rare (and valuable) these days...and are just as important towards completing your collections as Anders' signature is.

Really, the only reason his signature is relatively "valuable" is because Anders is the least generous signer of the 24 men who went to the moon. Simply put, he dislikes signing autographs for his admirers and has chosen to limit the numbers on the market so he can artificially inflate their value.

posted 03-09-2010 04:28 AM               

I found Anders a savvy and witty person, with a strong opinion about other people's, (including other astronauts') motivations. Unlike others, I wouldn't be in a position to judge his business acumen, but there are plenty of other business leaders who could be accused of being in the right place at the right time. Arguably the divestment of aerospace activities under his tenure was a critical "right-time" decision that left GD with a secure legacy.

At the end of the day, though, it's his choice and at least he is consistent about it, rather than bleating on about how despicable autograph collectors are and then conducting paid-for signings.

posted 03-09-2010 05:08 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
At the end of the day, though, it's his choice and at least he is consistent about it, rather than bleating on about how despicable autograph collectors are and then conducting paid-for signings.

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I'm guessing you're referring to Collins here. I suspect most of Collins' bad feeling towards collectors were formed back when he was signing for free. Similarly, that's probably when Anders developed his disdain for autograph collectors too. I think both guys simply don't understand the appeal of autograph collecting...and they both had bad experiences with over-zealous collectors in the past.

posted 03-09-2010 05:43 PM            

There is no real need to speculate on Anders' reluctance to sign autographs when he states exactly why in his NASA oral history, and has repeated that opinion in public and private since. To paraphrase - hopefully accurately - he signed items for fellow Apollo astronauts, gifted them with flown items, etc. - as they all did for each other at the time. When one astronaut auctioned off one of these gifts, Anders decided to stop signing, feeling what had been a personal thing had become commercial. Frustrating to the autograph collector, I am sure, but very understandable, and not based on a distaste of collectors.

Regarding Anders' place on the Apollo 8 crew, naturally he has a very different recollection of events to some theories stated in this thread. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, and other participants might recall it differently, I thought it might be interesting to quote his first-hand account In the Shadow of the Moon (from an admittedly and intentionally Anders-centric chapter), which discusses how Lovell replaced Collins on the crew very late in the game:

To Anders, Lovell would seem like a last-minute replacement, someone who never really had time to become a full crew member. As a consequence, he would later wryly suggest that they actually operated the mission with a two-and-a-half person crew. Anders and Borman would now take turns monitoring the CSM, with Lovell working almost independently, focusing his attention on the spacecraft's navigation system. 'By that time,' Anders states, 'I was really command module pilot... Frank and I were more of a pair than Borman and Lovell. Frank basically considered me the command module pilot... Frank gave me the responsibilities of making sure the spacecraft worked.'"

posted 03-09-2010 06:28 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by FFrench:
Anders decided to stop signing, feeling what had been a personal thing had become commercial.

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I can respect that stance, as that is the approach that Armstrong has also taken. However, it's puzzling that the anti-commercial stance towards autographs ends at $2500 and above.

I also can't agree that Lovell was anything less than a full crew member on Apollo 8...considering he was the most experienced astronaut of the three and held arguably the most important role (navigator) on man's first voyage away from the Earth. I suspect Borman likely gave Anders more CMP-like roles because there was no LM for the LMP to devote his attention to...not because Lovell wasn't up to the task. It makes sense, from a redundancy standpoint, to have multiple crew members know the systems, especially when one of those crew members would otherwise be under-utilized.

And while I agree that one's accomplishments should not be questioned just because of one's stance towards autographs, it should be remembered that it was Anders himself (in his letter to DChudwin) who first tied his accomplishments to the value of his signature. If one is going to make that comparison (especially against a seasoned astronaut like John Young), then it's probably fair game to compare Anders' accomplishments against those of his peers when weighing an autograph's value.

posted 03-09-2010 09:02 PM               

1. Should I give autographs? Some such as Neil Armstrong, who autographed freely for many years until 1994, decided never to give an autograph to anyone for any reason, including charity signings.

2. Should I charge for autographs? John Glenn has given thousands of autographs through the years, including through the mail, without a charge. Others such as Ken Mattingly will autograph in person only but without a fee. However, most former astronauts do charge for their autographs due to the commercialization of collecting space in the last 20 years.

3. What should the autograph fee be? In the mid-1980's Jim Irwin was the first to charge for an autograph-- $2 for his signature on a litho showing him on the Moon. Current fees by former astronauts range from $30 to $495 at various signings (ASF, Astronaut Central etc.) or through the mail. Two astronauts in the higher range have been Buzz Aldrin (first landing on the Moon) at $350 and John Young (six flights, two to the Moon) at $495.

4. What is an autograph worth? Like anything else, the value of a signature is market based. Items signed by Bill Anders fetch a premium price because he has signed few items in recent years. While an active astronaut, he did sometimes respond through the mail (in 1969 I received an Apollo 8 USS Yorktown recovery cover signed by him).

   Covers, photos and some other items signed by him during his time as an astronaut are available at auction in the $500-$1000 range. However, since leaving the astronaut office, he has not participated in any signings like some of his former colleagues. Many collectors are frustrated by his reluctance.

First, Anders was a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, and he holds conservative political views. I suggest this extends to the marketplace setting prices. Because the market allows him (his designated charities) to receive $2,500 or more for his new signature, then the market should determine the price. (The counter-argument is that he has artificially elevated the value by restricting the supply.)

Second, our hobby is apparently not important to Anders. By keeping his price high, the time commitment is minimized. He is wealthy due to his business career and can donate directly to worthy causes without having to deal with collectors.
(The counter-argument is that he greatly benefited from his training and career as an astronaut, which opened doors to him in government and industry. Thus taxpayers, and space enthusiasts in particular, paved the way for his success.)

Finally, based on my talk with him at the ASF dinner and conversations with other who have talked with him, I do think that Anders takes some sense of satisfaction that his fee is the highest of the living Apollo astronauts. I do not expect him to change his attitude.

posted 03-10-2010 09:01 AM            

Anders has always been a tough signer. Ask collectors who were active during the Apollo programme and they will tell you that even then his signature was something to be prized.

That said, he has always signed autographs even if only rarely. There are stories on this board of people who have met him at events within the past few years and, approached in the right way and at the right time he has signed for them. There are also numerous items for sale in auction houses that bear signatures of his that have been signed within the past decade or so. He is unquestionably the most scarce of living Apollo astronauts (if not the most scarce of all flown Apollo astronauts), but he has also made many signing exceptions. His willingness to sign now for a $2500 donation to a charitable organization (and an organization that should be of interest to anyone interested in his autograph, ie aviation/space), further makes his autograph accessible to anyone with - albeit - considerable funds and a matching desire.

posted 03-10-2010 06:21 PM               

Borman and Lovell (and Collins) all had experience in space. I suspect Borman and Lovell were especially close from spending (I think it's still a record) TWO WEEKS aboard the cramped flying toilet that was Gemini 7. I'll bet those two knew EVERYTHING about each other.

Maybe it's because post-Apollo, Borman and Anders were both Fortune 500 aviation co. CEOs, while Lovell became only a lowly restaurateur, I don't know.

posted 03-10-2010 09:34 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by A.Pelago:
Maybe it's because post-Apollo, Borman and Anders were both Fortune 500 aviation co. CEOs, while Lovell became only a lowly restaurateur, I don't know.

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posted 03-12-2010 06:51 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Simply put, he dislikes signing autographs for his admirers and has chosen to limit the numbers on the market so he can artificially inflate their value.

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It could well be that he does not agree with the phenomenon of autograph values and, like Neil Armstrong, resents the possibility of an eBay profit resulting from his signature.

I believe his career CV speaks for itself and to shun the spotlight, in comparison to other astronauts, is his choice.

Being relatively reclusive should not demean his status on the one Apollo flight.

posted 03-12-2010 11:57 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by leslie:
With respect, to suggest that Bill Anders is trying to artificially inflate the price of his signature is naive if not just plain silly.

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Respectfully, I think it's naive to think otherwise. Remember that the reasons that Anders cited for his signature being worth $2500 included the fact that his autograph isn't "common" and that his autograph is needed to complete a collection of Apollo astronauts signatures. Since he controls the amount of signatures that are available (and how common they are), he uses it as justification to set a high price. If that's what he wants to do, it's his right...but I don't think it puts him in the same category as Neil Armstrong.

posted 03-12-2010 12:33 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
...he'll think of them as a "nerd" (a term he used in his JSC oral history).

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posted 03-12-2010 12:48 PM               

However both remove themselves from all the commerce going on when profits could be going to charity, they go to dealers (like me). I understand Armstrong's error, but Anders is a Harvard Business School grad.

Armstrong and Anders aren't scarce, just expensive. I have six Anders in my collection, and I am not even trying.

posted 03-12-2010 01:38 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacefest:
However both remove themselves from all the commerce going on when profits could be going to charity, they go to dealers (like me). I understand Armstrong's error, but Anders is a Harvard Business School grad.

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I agree that Anders, by rarely signing, is manipulating the market. Also, I do believe, based on his letter to me and his conversations with me and other collectors,
that he derives some odd satisfaction in frustrating collectors by making his autograph so scarce. I also believe he does not have much respect for autograph collectors

posted 03-12-2010 09:56 PM            

I have met General Anders on several occasions. He is gracious, professional, and entertaining when he speaks. When approached for autographs, I have seen him be courteous in his deferral.