Topic: Intrepid Sea, Air & Space: shuttle Enterprise
onesmallstep Member
Posts: 1352 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
posted 04-26-2012 04:08 PM
Last week, three of the aircraft nearest the spot where Enterprise will reside were sent to the Empire State Aerosciences Museum in Glenville, NY, and others were moved to make way for OV-101.
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3458 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 05-04-2012 02:12 PM
The museum is selling combo tickets which includes admission to the Intrepid, Growler, Concorde and space shuttle pavilion for $28 online.
As a comparison, tickets to the museum without the space shuttle pavilion are $22 online ($24 at the door).
The earliest the tickets can be used is July 19, so that appears to be a target date for the opening.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-04-2012 02:36 PM
The Intrepid has announced the grand opening will be July 19.
Space Shuttle Enterprise to Open to Public at Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum in NYC on July 19
The space shuttle Enterprise, the original NASA orbiter that paved the way for America's successful space shuttle program, is scheduled to open to the public at its new home at the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum in New York City on Thursday, July 19. The Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum is located at Pier 86 (46th Street and 12th Avenue) in Manhattan.
Enterprise will be placed in a temporary, climate-controlled and fully-accessible Space Pavilion located on Intrepid's Flight Deck until a permanent exhibit facility is built.
The Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum includes the 900-foot-long aircraft carrier 'Intrepid' with seven full decks and four theme halls; the guided missile submarine Growler; and an extensive collection of over 27 aircraft including the A-12 Blackbird, the fastest plane in the world, and the British Airways Concorde, the fastest commercial aircraft in the world. Guests can visit areas of the ship including the Flight Deck, Hangar Deck, fo'c'sle (commonly known as the anchor chain room), and enjoy new multimedia presentations and exhibit collections, interactive educational stations and a state-of-the-art public pier.
Museum admission, including access to the Space Pavilion, ranges from $16-$30. Tickets can be purchased online.
Date is subject to change due to weather and operational delays.
This schedule was in our New York arrival story and on shuttles.collectspace.com, but if missed:
June 4: Two-day journey via barge to Intrepid
June 6: Arrival at Intrepid and craning onto flight deck
June 7: Space Pavilion construction begins onboard Intrepid
July 19: Enterprise opens to public
manilajim Member
Posts: 256 From: Bergenfield, NJ USA Registered: May 2000
posted 05-12-2012 04:55 PM
I had to drive to JFK Airport the other night and was pleasantly surprised to see that the tail of the Enterprise as well as the 747 below it are poking out of an airline hangar very close to the highway leading to the terminals.
It is a clear shot to get some nice photos although I am not sure if parking is available nearby. I look forward to seeing it on the barge cruising to the Intrepid in a few weeks.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-12-2012 08:45 PM
Enterprise to be demated from 747 Saturday night
Space shuttle Enterprise, which since landing on April 27 at John F. Kennedy (JFK) International Airport in New York has sat atop NASA's modified Boeing 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA), will be hoisted off the jumbo jet overnight on Saturday (May 12).
The delay between touchdown and demating was to give NASA the time to move and set-up the two large cranes and metal sling needed to separate the two vehicles.
On Saturday afternoon, the ground crew moved the the jumbo jet and orbiter out of the open-ended hangar where they were parked to a staging area for this evening's demating activities.
After being lowered to the ground, Enterprise will be moved into a hangar at the airport to await its early June barging to the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum, where it will go on public display on July1 19.
The Shuttle Carrier Aircraft will depart Friday (May 18) for Dryden Flight Research Center in California, to await its final ferry flight with space shuttle Endeavour in September.
Visit shuttles.collectspace.com for continuing coverage of the delivery and display of NASA's retired space shuttles.
Photos courtesy Dennis Jenkins. Reprinted with permission.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
Space shuttle Enterprise has landed in New York, again.
Two weeks after flying into John F. Kennedy (JFK) International Airport mounted atop a modified Boeing 747, Enterprise, NASA's original prototype space shuttle, was off-loaded by crane from the back of the jumbo jet to the ground overnight on Saturday (May 13). Workers completed hoisting Enterprise off the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA) at around 6:30 a.m. EDT (1030 GMT) Sunday.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-14-2012 09:33 AM
NASA time lapse of Enterprise being demated from the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft:
OV-105 Member
Posts: 879 From: Ridgecrest, CA Registered: Sep 2000
posted 05-14-2012 01:18 PM
This has to be the longest time Enterprise's landing gear was up since she was at Vandenburg in 1985.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
Space shuttle Enterprise, NASA's original prototype orbiter, will hit the road — and water — for a Manhattan museum over the next five days after sitting at a New York airport for the past month.
The shuttle will arrive by barge at the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum on Tuesday (June 5), weather permitting, where it is set to go on public display in July.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
NASA's space shuttle Enterprise launched on a voyage Sunday (June 3), going where no space shuttle has gone before: New Jersey.
The space agency's original prototype orbiter, Enterprise is scheduled to arrive at the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum on the west side of Manhattan on Tuesday (June 5). Leaving Sunday from New York's John F. Kennedy (JFK) International Airport where it was delivered atop a jumbo jet in late April, the shuttle was barged to Bayonne, NJ as a layover on its way up the Hudson River.
SpaceAngel Member
Posts: 397 From: Maryland Registered: May 2010
posted 06-04-2012 07:24 AM
Why was "Enterprise" moved a day earlier than originally planned?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-04-2012 08:04 AM
President Obama is flying into JFK International Airport today, which meant security precautions that would have precluded barging operations.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
Space shuttle Enterprise suffered minor wing damage on Sunday (June 3) when it collided with the navigation guides for a New York railroad bridge during the first half of its sea trek to a Manhattan museum for display.
Mounted atop an open-air, flat-bed barge, Enterprise was on its way from John F. Kennedy (JFK) International Airport in New York to Weeks Marine in Jersey City, NJ when the accident occurred. The shuttle, NASA's prototype for its orbiter fleet, was making the first leg of its trip to the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, a converted World War II aircraft carrier that is docked on Manhattan's west side.
The shuttle, which never flew in space but was used for a series of approach and landing tests in the late 1970s, was originally scheduled for delivery to the Intrepid on Tuesday (June 5) but poor weather conditions have delayed its departure until at least Wednesday, the museum said in a statement posted to its website.
OV-105 Member
Posts: 879 From: Ridgecrest, CA Registered: Sep 2000
posted 06-04-2012 04:54 PM
I hope they got the parts that they took off.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 06-04-2012 04:56 PM
Shades of the nose probe getting knocked off the Concorde all over again...
Spaceguy5 Member
Posts: 427 From: Pampa, TX, US Registered: May 2011
posted 06-04-2012 05:09 PM
This story doesn't at all help the fact that I already feel very uneasy about the Intrepid getting Enterprise.
OV-105 Member
Posts: 879 From: Ridgecrest, CA Registered: Sep 2000
posted 06-04-2012 05:14 PM
I don't like the idea of the lift up onto the Intrepid's deck and and once again when they move it to is new home. I have had a bad feeling in my gut it will end up in the river.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 06-04-2012 05:23 PM
I had a bad feeling for a long time about this. I think they can do it, but they REALLY need to make sure this mistake is the ONLY one they make.
Intrepid... FAILURE is NOT an option!
SpaceAngel Member
Posts: 397 From: Maryland Registered: May 2010
posted 06-04-2012 06:38 PM
Ouch! Hope technicians will fix the wing before the ceremony...
Greggy_D Member
Posts: 1005 From: Michigan Registered: Jul 2006
posted 06-04-2012 06:45 PM
Completely inept and uncalled for.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-04-2012 07:03 PM
Nature happens folks, no matter how carefully you plan. Thankfully, the damage was minor.
Enterprise has survived a lot through the years, and it will survive this, too.
Spaceguy5 Member
Posts: 427 From: Pampa, TX, US Registered: May 2011
posted 06-04-2012 07:13 PM
What bothers me is that they let Enterprise travel by water through an area with very very small clearance. Small tolerances should not me an option when you're factoring in that the barge can slide around (since it's traveling by water).
SpaceAngel Member
Posts: 397 From: Maryland Registered: May 2010
posted 06-04-2012 07:21 PM
Are there plans to fix the damage?
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 06-04-2012 09:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: Nature happens folks, no matter how carefully you plan.
I know accidents happen Robert. But all things considered if the Smithsonian had dropped Apollo 11 CM Columbia while trying to move it in National Air and Space Museum and put a dent in it, half the collectSPACE posters and lurkers would likely be screaming bloody murder.
Enterprise never flew in space, but it needs to be considered just as much a national treasure as its space flown sisters in my opinion. And yes, I know it has dealt with getting rained on and partially flooded inside over the years. The bird has indeed been through a lot.
Yes, weather can be unpredictable, but there are ways to help alleviate that with careful planning (and yes, I realize the team moving Enterprise has planned a lot for that as this was a freak wind). Perhaps they tried to rush it a bit too much?
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS Registered: Feb 2003
posted 06-04-2012 10:06 PM
I'm sorry, but I agree with most people on here that the damage is uncalled for.
Agreed with the above Concorde comment as well. Let's hope this is the only bad thing to happen to a real space shuttle orbiter.
APG85 Member
Posts: 310 From: Registered: Jan 2008
posted 06-04-2012 10:09 PM
The damage is unfortunate, but I'm sure that is can be repaired. What is more concerning is the water spray/mist the shuttle is being subjected to during the barge tow.
I'm a little surprised they didn't "wrap" it with something to prevent salt water (or any water) contaminants from getting on the surface. This could be very bad for the long term of the vehicle. Any type of ocean spray needs to be removed within hours (there's a book answer that escapes me at the moment) via fresh water rinse...
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-05-2012 01:08 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jay Chladek: But all things considered if the Smithsonian had dropped Apollo 11 CM Columbia...
I'd suggest that's an incorrect analogy, as it ascribes the action to human error rather than weather. What if an earthquake rattled Washington, DC (it has happened before) and Apollo 11's Columbia was damaged as a result? Critics could hold the Smithsonian responsible for not better designing the National Air and Space Museum building to withstand earthquakes, but their scorn would have the benefit of hindsight.
I'm not outright excusing the damage done to Enterprise but I also don't think this is a uniquely Intrepid or New York event. The replica space shuttle that arrived by barge in Houston last week was significantly more damaged during transit (although it was, at the least, cosmetically repaired before the public could see).
And it's not even unique to sea voyages. Ferry flights and overland transports each are subject to risks that can be minimized but not completely avoided.
chenry Member
Posts: 60 From: Zionsville, IN 46077 Registered: Oct 2010
posted 06-05-2012 06:31 AM
This was indeed human error. Doesn't matter if nature had a hand in it. The current is something that should have been taken into consideration. This item is an artifact. Changing it's condition lessens the value of the artifact. But speaking as one that is hands on in aircraf restoration, that salt water spray it is getting is going to cause some major issues. These are things that an actual air museum would have taken into consideration. There is no excuse for this.
Spaceguy5 Member
Posts: 427 From: Pampa, TX, US Registered: May 2011
posted 06-05-2012 06:35 AM
As someone on NASA Spaceflight suggested, they might have overcorrected for the wind.
Either way, I doubt this accident was caused by the wind. Take a look at pictures in this thread on another forum. Look at the direction the wind is blowing (most obvious on the flag) at the time of the accident. But of course, the wind makes a nice scapegoat.
gliderpilotuk Member
Posts: 3413 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
posted 06-05-2012 06:56 AM
So basically they're in open water with no lateral control over the barge? Fine if you're on a river but pretty reckless if you're exposed to swell.
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3458 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 06-05-2012 07:56 AM
Enterprise has wooden wings? I realize they're not space worthy, but is the wood on the outside? I would of thought they be aluminum.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-05-2012 08:49 AM
Most of Enterprise's tiles were made of polyurethane foam, which shares the appearance/color of wood. Its airframe is metal.
posted 06-05-2012 09:37 AM
My feelings about NYC getting the Enterprise are well known. This is typical NY--careless and coming from a city that doesn't appreciate the space program
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3458 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 06-05-2012 09:58 AM
Wasn't Enterprise kept outside for some years? And weren't other nonflight (e.g., "boilerplate") capsules also subject to mistreatment by both individuals/museums and the weather?
And playing devil's advocate, they should take the damaged section of Enterprise and make some arcrylics outta them as fundraisers for Intrepid's "bubble"....
Ben Member
Posts: 1917 From: United States Registered: May 2000
posted 06-05-2012 10:49 AM
Enterprise is not going to be left outside to rot. The main point in the agreement of getting a shuttle is to keep it indoors in a climate-controlled environment. Lessons were learned after certain other facilities, such as JSC and KSC, did just that.
I don't get all the comments everywhere about how the Intrepid and NY must somehow intend to break these "rules", almost on purpose based on what I've read.
What exactly is "typical NY carelessness"? It's one thing if you don't think they should have gotten a shuttle, it's another to act as though this is to be expected, they could care less about damaging it, etc
tegwilym Member
Posts: 2339 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
posted 06-05-2012 01:16 PM
This wouldn't have happened in Seattle.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 48663 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-05-2012 01:29 PM
According to an update by the Intrepid on Twitter, Enterprise "has already been repaired."
The museum has also confirmed Enterprise's arrival for Wednesday (June 6):
All times are approximate and operations are dependent on multiple conditions, including tides, rain and wind.
The trip is scheduled to begin at 10:15 a.m., when the barge and shuttle will leave Weeks Marine in New Jersey, passing the Statue of Liberty at 10:50 a.m.; the World Trade Center at 11:40 a.m.; and travel up the Hudson River to the Intrepid Museum, arriving at 12:30 p.m. where it will be lifted by crane onto the flight deck and put into position facing the Hudson River. Craning operation takes approximately three hours and will begin shortly after the barge’s arrival and tying off at the Museum.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 06-05-2012 03:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: I'd suggest that's an incorrect analogy, as it ascribes the action to human error rather than weather.
Sorry Robert, sure the wind/weather is a factor, but it is still a chain of events. Break a link in that chain, no problem.
Now imagine how bad NASA would have looked if on January 29, 1986 if they had said "sorry people, it was the weather that caused it" after a certain event etched into our heads occurred on the previous day.
Okay, maybe that is a bit harsh. I know the orbiters are just a mass of metal, materials, electronics. They do not compare at all to the cost of a single or multiple human lives.
I am not going to speak to the point of whether or not Intrepid should have gotten a shuttle as to me that is a dead issue now. You can go back into the previous threads to read about that. They have it and they have to take care of it now. No letter writing campaign spearheaded by Congressmen from other states or people who want the thing to go to Dayton or Seattle (or even Omaha) is going to change that.
Today, Intrepid has Enterprise with its title signed, sealed and delivered to them. I hope it all works out for them. I really do. I want to see it become as big a draw for them as it could be. This is why I posted the information I did about its OMS pod replicas, so we could get the record corrected (and I am glad it got corrected). I would rather see them succeed than fail. I hate failure. Failure sucks. I don't want to wish failure on anyone. One day, I hope to visit the facility to see the ole bird in person and I would love to visit their new building, if and when they get it built.
But at the same time, I still have this "Spidey sense" tingling about the whole thing. Rationally, I still think they can pull it off. But I won't rest as easy until they do. The transport crew knows they screwed up, we know they screwed up. What needs to happen now is to make sure this is the only screw up from here on out. It can't be just dismissed as "the wind". If it was just "the wind" then the engineering team responsible for the transport and movement of the shuttle from the barge to the deck of the carrier will need to do a little more planning to minimize that factor further since it is still going a factor.
I know you can't plan completely for every factor (nor should they as nothing would ever get done then UNLESS one had an unlimited budget). Risk is always going to be part of the business, whether it is launching humans into orbit or transporting an aircraft by ground (or water). It takes experience and creativity to plan ahead, know that it is a factor and try and put enough preparations in place to help ensure a successful outcome. The good engineers are the ones who recognize it. The not so good ones blame it on other things.
onesmallstep Member
Posts: 1352 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
posted 06-05-2012 03:42 PM
All the comments above have their good points, but let's not stick it to NY just because it's NY (obvious bias on my part). Many artifacts have been damaged, lost or destroyed en route, in storage or on display at many museums (air/space or not) around the country.
Case in point: the Boeing 307 Stratoliner passenger plane from the 1930s, on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center in Virginia, was restored like-new by Boeing in 2001. En route to its new home, it suffered engine failure and had to make a landing in water. Although damaged, it was completely refurbished again and made a successful trip. The end result is there for all to see.
My point is: if every factor has been taken into account (and there will be unknowns), give the people involved the benefit of the doubt and hope the end result (an Enterprise in an excellent display area for everyone to enjoy) is worth the extra effort and yes, risk, to bring it all off...
Spaceguy5 Member
Posts: 427 From: Pampa, TX, US Registered: May 2011
posted 06-05-2012 06:13 PM
This does not look like a repair to me.
posted 04-26-2012 04:08 PM
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