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Author
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Topic: [Discuss] NASA's Orion Exploration Flight Test
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Mike_The_First
Member Posts: 436
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 12-05-2014 09:11 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Yes, as shown on NASA TV today, the Ikhana drone is now in the air...
Cool — my NASA TV connection keeps buffering (I stream online), so I keep missing bits and pieces. |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 12-05-2014 09:37 AM
Did anyone notice and have an explanation as to why at the maximum apogee the perigee was reading -18 nm? |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1267
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-05-2014 09:59 AM
NASA TV has done a fairly decent job. |
Mike_The_First
Member Posts: 436
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 12-05-2014 10:18 AM
So the Orion capsule is the CM for future manned deep space missions — have they designed/built an equivalent to the LM for those missions yet? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 10:29 AM
No LM is needed; the early missions planned for Orion will be to orbit but not land on the moon, to an asteroid where astronauts will spacewalk to the surface, and to orbit Mars. Early work has begun on the entry and descent technologies needed for a Mars landing craft, but work is still needed before a vehicle architecture takes shape. |
Lunar rock nut
Member Posts: 916
From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 12-05-2014 10:30 AM
That was AWESOME! |
FullThrottle
Member Posts: 93
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 12-05-2014 10:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
Did anyone notice and have an explanation as to why at the maximum apogee the perigee was reading -18 nm?
Yes, I noticed and scratched my head for a few seconds, I asked myself, wouldn't a negative perigee mean the vehicle would hit Earth?! Yes, it will, re-entry! NASA wasn't going for a stable round orbit, they were heading up and back down in a long oval. |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1267
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-05-2014 10:49 AM
They made that look easy. Picture perfect flight test. Only one of the flotation bags did not deploy. But that was it. Great flight test. |
Lunar rock nut
Member Posts: 916
From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 12-05-2014 10:53 AM
The feed from the UAV blew me away. That was so cool! |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1109
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-05-2014 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
...the early missions planned for Orion will be to orbit but not land on the moon.
In my opinion would be better back on the moon in 2020s with Orion, SLS and a Lunar Module (maybe made by ESA) with a mission profile LOR type. |
jimsz
Member Posts: 644
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 12-05-2014 11:17 AM
The video was great to watch.This has been in development for 10 years and there will not be another flight for 4 more years and the earliest astronauts will fly this is 6 or more years? I really wonder if the U.S. will ever get out of earth orbit again let alone being the leader in manned space flight. |
Mike_The_First
Member Posts: 436
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 12-05-2014 11:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
No LM is needed...
Oh, okay. Thank you!My personal interest lies mostly in Apollo — I didn't really start following Orion until the other day when I saw talk of how it compares to the Apollo CMs, which peaked my interest. In watching coverage on NASA TV online yesterday and today, I saw them talking about using Orion to take manned missions to asteroids, the moon, and Mars, but hadn't heard anything about what they'd do once they got there (which makes sense, as that's outside the realm of what was being covered and discussed). Thanks for clarifying that! |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1267
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-05-2014 11:48 AM
Speaking hypothetically. If SLS does not get built or falls further behind in development for whatever reason, would a Delta IV Heavy with a slightly larger second stage have the power to launch a Block II fully operational Orion into lunar orbit? |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 12-05-2014 12:11 PM
Conversely, could a Falcon Heavy variant carry an Orion?
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Michael Davis
Member Posts: 559
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 12-05-2014 01:09 PM
Delta IV Heavy is limited to 22,000 lbs for translunar injection payloads. That is way below the total mass for Orion. So no, it could not be used for a lunar mission using a single launch scenario. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 12-05-2014 01:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dabolton:
Conversely, could a Falcon Heavy variant carry an Orion?
Why should it? SpaceX has a superior spacecraft, years ahead of Orion, and cheaper. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 01:30 PM
Dragon is not superior to Orion; nor, where it matters, is one spacecraft further behind (or ahead) of the other. They are two different vehicles for two different purposes, which SpaceX itself is the first to point out. There may be a future version of Dragon that can take on similar missions to what is planned for Orion, but by SpaceX's own account, that is far off on the horizon. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1106
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 12-05-2014 01:35 PM
Very impressive visuals from start to finish, which proved that Constellation was wrong not to consider the Delta 4 Heavy.One can only ponder where NASA human spaceflight would be today. A mixture of Orion crew and logistical launches would have been sufficient and cost-effective. |
robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 12-05-2014 02:20 PM
On the news over here, it's saying that the first manned test is planned for 2017, with a flight to the moon in 2021 and a flight to Mars in the 2030's. The way they have been describing it, it sounds like the U.S. are only going to send three manned flights into space over the next 15 years, surely that can't be right? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 02:27 PM
The next spaceflight for Orion, expected in 2018, is another uncrewed test atop the first Space Launch System rocket. The first crewed flight, a circumlunar mission, is currently targeted for 2021. Astronauts would then fly to a redirected asteroid in 2023-2024. A trip to orbit Mars is targeted for the mid-2030s. The flight rate is driven primarily by the available budgets on a year-to-year basis. |
Chariot412
Member Posts: 164
From: Lockport, NY, 14094
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 12-05-2014 02:55 PM
Back home near Niagara, NY from the Orion launch. The number of people and energy at the Cape for the first attempt was impressive! After 90 minutes of sleep in Orlando, arrived at around 3:45 a.m. and headed out to Saturn V Center a couple of hours later (I was at the Snoopy astronaut at 6). I felt all of the anticipation/frustration coupled with lack of sleep that everyone else did. Headed back to Orlando after lunch, not launch. This morning I decided to sleep in and arrived at Visitor's Center at about 5:30 a.m. and this time headed for the Launch Complex 39 area. Was fortunate to be up on the gantry third floor for the magnificent event this beautiful morning. Wonderful day for the space program... |
Skythings
Member Posts: 270
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 12-05-2014 03:32 PM
That puppy was hauling... as it came through the first few seconds of the UAV coverage. It really gave me a sense of the speeds involved during the re-entry with the cloud backdrop. I was very relieved to see the drogue parachutes deploy. But I had to admit it seemed like an eternity for the mains to deploy (one could only imagine the anxiety being inside the capsule). The optical illusion created using a long lens made me cringe thinking it was getting too close to the water. Looking at the clock at the same time made me think it was almost 2 minutes early. I didn't know it would have so much hang time on the mains which made up the time on the clock. Had to say that was pretty cool. Congratulations NASA — well done! |
Mike_The_First
Member Posts: 436
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 12-05-2014 03:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
The first crewed flight, a circumlunar mission, is currently targeted for 2021.
This is probably a pretty stupid question, but I've been thinking: what would be the difference between Orion going around the moon and the Apollo missions? Is there more we can gather from a manned mission around the moon or is it more of a test of the capsule's capabilities in a distant, yet familiar, environment so we'll know what to expect with it for missions like those to Mars? |
David C
Member Posts: 1397
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 12-05-2014 04:17 PM
Congratulations to the Orion team for a job well done today. I was particularly impressed by the line of sight rates during entry and the dropping like a stone subsonic fall before drogue deployment. Unfortunately the streaming coverage kept cutting out for me at liftoff and again near splashdown, which was frustrating. One thing, and I haven't seen it replayed, but I swear I saw the main canopies "line dancing" which got my attention. Don't like seeing canopies doing anything unusual, maybe it was just a trick of the light. |
dtemple
Member Posts: 766
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 12-05-2014 04:40 PM
The NASA/Orion bashing didn't take long to happen... Orion is a long-shot demonstration mission that is aimed at no celestial body, nor the moon, Mars or even an asteroid. The United States government’s attempt is aimed at space startups that are trying to muscle their way into the spaceflight industry – and budge NASA out for good. |
datkatz
Member Posts: 178
From: New York, NY
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 12-05-2014 06:28 PM
Isn't some of the bashing justified? Let's think a bit before engaging in an unabashed Orion love-fest. Next flight (unmanned) in four years; first manned flight in six? (And that's if all goes well — highly unlikely over those time-scales.) Kinda hard to think of that as a program.What newly-degreed aerospace engineer would want to work on a program like that, rather than at, say, SpaceX? Face it. We don't have the will for a real, sustained program of human deep-space exploration. (And by "we" I mean Congressional budgeters, and by "will" I mean money.) |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1221
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 12-05-2014 06:40 PM
Did the Orion Team get a congratulatory call from the president? |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 1293
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 12-05-2014 06:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dtemple:
The NASA/Orion bashing didn't take long to happen...
What you see as NASA bashing I see as a fairly reasonable viewpoint. I do find the whole Orion/SLS system as a mission to nowhere that is basically a Congressional pork program to keep local space industrial constituents happy. The law that created the SLS mandates certain aspects of shuttle technology, which as we all know is hopelessly economically inefficient. I personally believe we'll see at most several SLS Block I launches, but no real development of the Block II. By the mid 2020's hopefully New Space (and that means predominantly SpaceX) will have created relatively large heavy lift vehicles that will give Congress the option to buy these launchers instead. Personally, the part of the article that I thought was most lacking was the description of the Evil Empire (NASA and the space industrial complex) versus the Rebels, e.g. New Space. Obviously at the absolute bottom line it is Congress that funds things, but to a certain extent they are influenced by what a government agency, in this case NASA, brings forward as plans. It is NASA that is supporting giving relatively large chunks of money to New Space, predominantly in the form of SpaceX, but also various other space start-ups. Clearly there are forward thinkers within NASA. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 09:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_The_First:
Is there more we can gather from a manned mission around the moon or is it more of a test of the capsule's capabilities...
The latter. EM-2, as a circumlunar mission, is a shakedown cruise for Orion much in the same way Apollo 7 was for the Apollo spacecraft. quote:
Originally posted by datkatz:
(And by "we" I mean Congressional budgeters, and by "will" I mean money.)
Maybe the "we" is more appropriately read as "some space enthusiasts" and the "will" as "patience."I know of and have met a number of young engineers fresh out of college who are eager to work on Orion, so your premise doesn't necessary translate to reality. quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
I do find the whole Orion/SLS system as a mission to nowhere that is basically a Congressional pork program to keep local space industrial constituents happy... Clearly there are forward thinkers within NASA.
I think there's a bit of a mismatch in your post, as highlighted by the two opposing statements quoted above. SLS may have started life as a Congressional project, but the NASA teams now making it a reality have taken ownership of it and are its driving force forward. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 09:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Headshot:
Did the Orion Team get a congratulatory call from the president?
I don't know if a call was made, but congratulations were extended during the White House daily press briefing. Everybody here at the White House extends their congratulations to the men and women of NASA and their commercial partners for the successful test launch and we look forward to future milestones as we send our brave explorers out into the solar system. White House Office of Science and Technology Policy director John Holdren also issued a statement that read in part: We congratulate the men and women of NASA and their commercial partners for this successful test launch, and we look forward to future milestones on the journey to Mars. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 12-05-2014 09:31 PM
Here is our photo from the Saturn V viewing site. We only had about 30 seconds of viewing but hey that was more than the day before.  What a fantastic day and fantastic flight!!!  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2014 09:52 PM
Here is United Launch Alliance's EFT-1 launc highlights video: |
datkatz
Member Posts: 178
From: New York, NY
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 12-06-2014 12:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I know of and have met a number of young engineers fresh out of college who are eager to work on Orion, so your premise doesn't necessary translate to reality.
Well, we'll see how long they last working with, on average, one flight/five years.Patience? Perhaps. But I'm fortunate enough to have lived through, and to have been stimulated by, a real space exploration program, one whose goals, despite setbacks, were met in a timely fashion, and whose focus was clearly set on a goal that would — and did — excite the entire world. I was eight years old when the Mercury Seven were chosen, and turned eighteen a week after Armstrong walked on the moon. What a decade. I'm sorry you missed it. |
perineau
Member Posts: 368
From: FRANCE
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 12-06-2014 02:05 AM
I don't mean to be a party-pooper but I really don't see how a spacecraft with an autonomy of 21 days maximum with a crew of four could possibly get anywhere near Mars... |
butch wilks
Member Posts: 336
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 12-06-2014 04:14 AM
Sorry I to do not mean to be a party-pooper, but would this test have taken place a year back or two if NASA had kept going with the Ares rockets? As the Ares I-X demonstrated that Orion would fly. Yes that was a dummy second stage and Orion.The up rated first booster was ready to go only months after Ares I-X test flight. Add the item use yesterday and not go through all the engineering testing to get Orion to fit a Delta 4 Heavy, and may be you'd have this test in 2012/late 2013 and not in late 2014 years behind schedule. If you think on it all we are seeing is the Constellation project. But now we have the same project with one or two bits added on with no name and years behind, because of politics. US politics need to get a backbone, and help NASA not hinder it by cutting the budget year in year out. NASA may be a government operation but the people of the world backs it all the way. In its highest goals "we come in peace for all the world." Well the world backs NASA, why cannot the US government. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2235
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-06-2014 04:39 AM
Thank goodness for this website Robert as I thought the UK TV coverage was pretty poor as usual with uninformed narrative (unless I was watching the wrong channel?).Congrats to NASA and everyone involved. Pity we have to wait until 2021 for a circumlunar flight though. One other point, is it just me or wasn't the TV splashdown video as clear as Apollo? |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 12-06-2014 04:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
I thought the UK TV coverage was pretty poor as usual with uninformed narrative
Chris - you should have cranked up your computer and watched the live coverage on NASA TV as I did.
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-06-2014 06:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by butch wilks:
As the Ares I-X demonstrated that Orion would fly. Yes that was a dummy second stage and Orion.
The Orion on Ares I-X was a boilerplate aimed more at testing the Ares booster below it than its own flight characteristics. It lacked a pressure shell, heat shield, avionics, thermal control and the instrumented mass simulators used to gauge the stresses on crew seats and the controls and display panel.EFT-1 was a test of prototype Orion spacecraft. Not to re-spark a long-over debate, but by the time Ares I-X flew, Constellation was a dead end. NASA's budget could not support the program. Had proper funding been given at the start, maybe Constellation would have continued, but it was too late by 2009. quote:
Originally posted by perineau:
I really don't see how a spacecraft with an autonomy of 21 days maximum with a crew of four could possibly get anywhere near Mars...
Orion isn't intended to fly alone to Mars. It will be part of a larger ship designed to support the crew on the journey out and back. Orion's purpose is to return the crew to the Earth's surface at the end of the mission (similar in concept to how only the command module reentered at the end of Apollo missions to the moon). |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-06-2014 08:02 AM
NASA photo NASA’s Orion spacecraft is pulled safely into the well deck of the U.S. Navy's USS Anchorage, following its splashdown in the Pacific Ocean.  |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1267
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-06-2014 08:08 AM
I have to say the local TV coverage of the mission yesterday here in the Greater Toronto Area was somewhat better than I expected. A local all news network CP24 was posting the NASA TV coverage in split screen and when the launch occurred they went to it as their main coverage. I was watching on NASA TV, which we get here but flipped to other networks before the launch to see what if anything was being covered. Later in the day the other networks picked up on the story and last night I watched CBC news which did a fairly in depth news report on the mission and the future of Orion. However in Canada inevitably everything comes back to Chris Hadfield so they had him on to comment briefly on his thoughts for the future of the Orion program and how he wanted Canada to become more involved. |
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