posted 04-16-2010 07:31 AM               

I would strongly recommend to those on this list that if you really want the future, a real plan, one than can be paid for (which means there is a good chance it will happen), one that is not a retread of the past, one with clear goals and one that actually does something, listen to Buzz Aldrin's plan. It's not perfect, but it has much more going for it than the President's and/or Constellation. It has a new reusable spacecraft that pushes into the future (not the sardine-in-a can of Dragon), it has heavy lift now, and it has someone actually ON the surface of Mars in about 25 years rather than just flying by. It also maintains a US manned spaceflight capability. Like I said, it's not perfect, but it is very very good.

posted 04-16-2010 08:06 AM               

1. Why is there value in placing humans on Mars and not going back to the moon? Imagine if you had to choose six landing sites on planet earth to characterize its value. Could you come up with six sites that would tell us all there is to know about the earth? That is how much we know about the moon.

2. Once we get to Mars, how many landing missions will it take before some one claims there is no more value in going back?

posted 04-16-2010 09:08 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by issman1:
He's also the first US president to specifically mention Mars as a primary destination for astronauts.

---

Back to the Moon; back to the future. And this time, back to stay. And then a journey into tomorrow, a journey to another planet: a manned mission to Mars.

Each mission should and will lay the groundwork for the next. And the pathway to the stars begins...

Why the Moon? Why Mars? Because it is humanity's destiny to strive, to seek, to find. And because it is America's destiny to lead.

posted 04-16-2010 10:13 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikej:
But, since Bush hadn't just pushed through any trillion dollar programs, didn't scrap any existing space exploration programs, and didn't have advisors telling him that "we can't expect to be number one in everything indefinitely" -- heck, he didn't once use the words "bold" or "innovative" -- I'm sure things will work out much better this time.

---

It's not about "hating" Constellation. It's about not fully funding it from the beginning. The bloviators support a rocket to the Moon with no current plans for a lander, but can't see a point in orbiting Mars and establishing a real-time remote presence there.

And back to the Antarctica analogy, that was my point. Commercial interests have not been permitted to exploit that continent--which is why you don't see them there and there is no permanent settlement.

European settlement in America wasn't done by government expeditions, it was done by commercial operations. How many petroleum geologists work for the government vs. the number who work for private industry?

posted 04-16-2010 10:45 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cjh5801:
The bloviators support a rocket to the Moon with no current plans for a lander, but can't see a point in orbiting Mars and establishing a real-time remote presence there.

---

posted 04-16-2010 10:55 AM               

• Will add 6 billion USD to NASA's budget
  
• New robots to the Sun, Mars and a replacement for the HST
  
• Earth climate research
  
• Add 5 years to the ISS
  
• Use private companies to reach LEO
  
• Continue development of Orion so it can be used as a rescue vehicle
  
• Spend 3 billion USD to create a design for a heavy lift booster by 2015
  
• New technology development for radiation shielding, harness resources on distant worlds, supply spacecraft with energy needed for these far-reaching journeys
  
• Sending many more astronauts into space over the next decade
  
• Send astronauts to an asteroid
  
• Astronauts to orbit Mars by mid 2030s
  
• Astronauts will land on Mars later
  
• Unlike the previous program, we are setting a course with specific and achievable milestones
  
• Will add more than 2,500 jobs along the Space Coast in the next two years compared to the plan under the previous administration
  
• This holds the promise of generating more than 10,000 jobs nationwide over the next few years
  
• He did not explicitly say we will not return to the Moon, but he pretty bluntly implied that we are not going back on this plan since we have been there before
  
• The ladder on the LM Eagle had 9 rungs
  
• and yes, Buzz did walk on the Moon.

posted 04-16-2010 11:14 AM               

Fifty years after the creation of NASA, our goal is no longer just a destination to reach," Obama said. "Our goal is the capacity for people to work and learn, and operate and live safely beyond the Earth for extended periods of time, ultimately in ways that are more sustainable and even indefinite. And in fulfilling this task, we will not only extend humanity’s reach in space -- we will strengthen America’s leadership here on Earth.

posted 04-16-2010 11:37 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by BNorton:
Please explain the point of going to Mars and just orbiting.

---

posted 04-16-2010 12:20 PM               

You drive to work in your car. President Obama comes along and says, "your car is too old. I will take it away, put it in a museum and you will now rely on your neighbors to take you to work." These neighbors have threatened to kill you in the past and they are not the most reliable people and they drive an old car as well. They also will only take you; no kids or wife or anything. President Obama then says, "I will give money to people on the street that have never built a car before, but I will give them a lot of money and they can take their time building that car for you. Till then, ride with your neighbors."

posted 04-16-2010 12:32 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrSpace86:
private industry that has NEVER built a TRUE spacecraft before

---

posted 04-16-2010 01:00 PM               

The only analogy I can muster is the difference between a purpose built military plane, and flying a specific mission type and buying a ticket for a commercial airline to fly from point A to point B. In this case Point A is Earth and Point B is LEO.

How much of the work is being outsourced away from NASA?

posted 04-16-2010 01:25 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aztecdoug:
How much of the work is being outsourced away from NASA?

---

The difference is how those companies will now be paid.

Under the current model, contractors work (mostly) under a cost plus contract. Meaning, whether they succeed or fail at what they do, whether they come in on schedule or run late, they still get paid all that they are out and then some more for profit.

There's no incentive in a cost plus contract for contractors to do any more work than what is required of them.

Under the proposed model, the contractor invests some of its own money into the development, servicing and operation of the spacecraft. Furthermore, they have competition in the form of other companies offering the same services to NASA. So there are multiple incentives for the contractors to (a) keep the cost down, (b) meet deadlines and (c) exceed what is expected of them.

Beyond that though, it also means that the contractor can offer its spacecraft for use to entities other than just NASA.

It could, for example, offer to launch experiments and trained payload specialists for the National Academy of Sciences, NOAA, or the Department of Defense. It could offer rides to privately-funded tourists or researchers. It could offer spaceflight services to universities and private organizations. It could reach out to other space agencies, such as ESA, JAXA and CSA and offer to fly their astronauts.

posted 04-16-2010 03:00 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by moorouge:
How many agree with the Jerry de Groot article [see previous posting] that the 'vultures are gathering round NASA' and that the Obama speech was just another nail gently hammered into the coffin?

---

posted 04-16-2010 03:10 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cjh5801:
I'm not aware of de Groot's background.

---

posted 04-16-2010 05:35 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cjh5801:
Please explain the point of Apollo 8 and Apollo 10.

---

As you recall, the Apollo program was a tool of the Cold War. The LM was not ready for flight and the CIA had reason to believe that the Soviets were about to make a circumlunar flight. The fear was that the Soviets would claim they had made it to the moon first and the world would buy into that. NASA had the hardware, and took the gamble. While the flight did have some limited benefit (first manned flight of a Saturn V checkout, communications check, etc.), Frank Borman considered himself a cold warrior, which is why he took the gamble. (In the hindsight of Apollo 13, the flight would not have happened.)

Now Apollo 10 was different. The LM was capable of flight, was not capable of landing and liftoff from the moon. (That LM was coming down the line for Apollo 11.) So, they, NASA, took the gamble to have a "dress rehearsal." At the time there were many questions from the general public about why make the flight and not land. They obviously also took some future landing sight photos, etc. Hope this brief answer covers your rhetorical question.

I would also point out that the moon is/was only about a 10 day trip. Mars, with nuclear propulsion (probably a 10 to 15 year lead item... no where in the President's "plan"), ion, and chemical, is probably a four month round trip at best... two years with chemical only (no one is going with chemical). The moon is tidally locked so that a crew on the "near side" had constant communication with the earth. A TDRSS link satellite system would need to be placed around Mars prior to vehicle arrival for communication. Apollo 8 took place with a small capsule. A trip to Mars will require at least two large manned vehicles. A moon flights cost about $400 million total if memory serves. One flight to Mars will easily be many tens of billions of dollars, much more depending, upon your accounting, be exceptionally high risk, etc., etc.

posted 04-16-2010 06:23 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I'm sure the good folks at Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman would beg to differ with that statement...

---

So pretty much it's just like building the space shuttle? Rockwell was awarded the money (they were a private company) and they developed the orbiter?

I guess it makes more sense. Problem is that they word it so differently that they make it seem like Joe the Engineer will go develop a manned spacecraft all on his own. If Boeing, Lockheed, and Grumman are all considered 'private companies', then all this doesn't seem like a bad deal. So not much changes except for the "rights" to the spacecraft.

posted 04-16-2010 06:38 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by BNorton:
Now, again, please explain the point of going to Mars and just orbiting.

---

I don't agree with your dismissal of Apollo 8. The "limited benefits" of Apollo 8 that you concede were actually of considerable importance, and would be duplicated in a Mars orbital mission.

And surely even you would concede the benefit of having a real-time telepresence on Mars (as opposed to the current 40 minute or so delay between individual commands). By the time we get there, we'll have had experience with real-time telepresence on the Moon, which should greatly increase the efficacy of such missions.

Further, going to Mars without a manned lander avoids the problem of climbing back out of the gravity well once you get there, so you've reduced costs and development time.

And while staying in orbit, we can still explore the moons of Mars and may find ways to exploit them as well.

posted 04-16-2010 07:08 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Playalinda:
Schweikart was an Apollo 9 astronaut and now cofounder of the B612 Foundation, a group that aims to defend Earth from asteroid impacts... I really wish that Obama would listen to our former astronauts like... Schweikart.

---

posted 04-16-2010 07:21 PM               

Boeing Statement on President's Remarks and the Need for Immediate Development of a Heavy-lift Vehicle

Speaking at NASA's Kennedy Space Center on April 15, U.S. President Barack Obama unveiled proposed changes to the administration's fiscal year 2011 budget submission for space exploration, including a crew rescue vehicle and a decision on a heavy-lift rocket in 2015. The Boeing Company responded today with the following statement:

"The president's enthusiasm for space exploration was encouraging. We are pleased that the president remains committed to human spaceflight. We remain convinced that America stands at an inflection point with regard to space: If we make the right decisions today, we have the opportunity to create a new Golden Age of Space. Our national leadership's focus on this bodes well for our country and its highly experienced space industrial base.

"Boeing has served as a major partner in humankind's exploration of space since the beginning. Our talented people bring a mature understanding of NASA's enduring needs; a practical, businesslike approach to innovation; and a commitment to mission assurance and the safety and success of our astronaut corps.

"We are encouraged by the extension of the International Space Station program and look forward to enhancing scientific research onboard, upgrading the space station, and using it as a U.S. national laboratory. Benefits to be gained from extension of the space station include international cooperation; medical and pharmaceutical advancements; its use as a test bed for demonstrating Earth-observation capabilities and future exploration technologies; and the availability of a waypoint for future exploration missions.

"Excellence in human spaceflight is an important part of the American identity and symbolizes global leadership on the highest of technological platforms. We are greatly concerned that by backing away from the challenges of human space exploration, the United States would relinquish its leadership of a mission that has inspired generations.

"A bold national space program also supports the United States' security and economy by fostering a domestic work force that is educated and skilled in science, technology, engineering and math. It encourages the growth of new technologies and emerging businesses, large and small.

"We support the president's call for increased investment in heavy-lift launch vehicle technology, but we believe the United States should be on a clear path to accelerate the development and production of this critical system, along with a deep-space capsule. Both of these vehicles are essential to any deep-space exploration mission. We have the technology and the people to commence development of these vehicles now. A plan that includes a heavy-lift vehicle would enable space exploration supported by humans, large-array telescopes and deep-space robotic missions. It could achieve maximum benefit from American tax dollars by drawing on the cutting-edge technology already being developed for the Constellation program.

"Remaining at the forefront of human spaceflight is the only choice worthy of this great nation and to the long line of explorers and visionaries who brought us to where we are today."

posted 04-16-2010 07:35 PM               

Space Exploration in the 21st Century

The Coalition for Space Exploration (Coalition) recognizes today's Space Conference in Florida as an important step in the continuing discussion on the future of America's global leadership in space exploration.

The Coalition believes human space exploration is a national imperative that calls for a focused strategy with a more aggressive timetable and milestones to drive the development of capabilities, in support of its missions. To successfully forge the industry and international partnerships necessary for future space exploration missions, America must have robust, sustained support from its elected officials and the public. This cannot be achieved, when goals are distant and unclear.

The President's announcement, today, that NASA will undertake the development of a heavy-lift vehicle for deep space missions to specific destinations, including asteroids and Mars, provides some clarity to the future direction of space exploration, planned by the Administration. We commend the President's efforts to help mitigate some of the job losses associated with the retirement of the Space Shuttle program and restructuring of Constellation. This highly skilled workforce is essential to the sustainment of our nation's preeminence in space, economic, and national security and global competitiveness. The erosion of this skill base would seriously affect the nation's industrial base and national security strategies.

While the steps outlined by President Obama are encouraging, many key issues and concerns remain with regard to the transition from the current programs to the proposed new exploration agenda and the impact that it will have on our nation's space industrial base and global leadership.

Delaying a decision until 2015 on the design of a heavy-lift vehicle, the establishment of its first human exploration mission for no earlier than 2025, as a precursor to a Mars expedition in 2030, threatens to sacrifice a generation of experience and expertise in our nation's human space flight workforce. Continuing development of a variant of the Orion spacecraft is good news, in that it will reduce dependence on Russian spacecraft for International Space Station (ISS) crew escape and take advantage of existing assets and investments, but it by no means fully addresses the issue of independent, assured American access to space. There remain questions as to whether the proposal to rely solely on commercial providers to send American astronauts to the ISS is premature and threatens to extend indefinitely our reliance on other nations. In the final analysis, the U.S. human spaceflight program is a national imperative, not only a commercial interest.

The Coalition for Space Exploration sees today's Space Conference as an opportunity to advance the ongoing discussion to outline a clear strategy for America's future in the exploration of space. We look forward to the coming deliberations of the Congress, as the legislative process continues, and as the voices of the public are heard in this important national dialogue.

About the Coalition for Space Exploration
The Coalition for Space Exploration is a group of space industry businesses and advocacy groups that collaborates to ensure that the United States remains the leader in space, science and technology by reinforcing the value and benefits of space exploration with the public and our nation's leaders, and building lasting support for a long-term, sustainable strategic direction for space exploration.

posted 04-16-2010 07:39 PM               

Coalition Supports NASA's New Plan for Space Exploration

New Direction Will Create Private Sector Jobs and Keep U.S. as World Leader in Space Exploration

Next Step In Space, a coalition of over thirty businesses and organizations dedicated to scientific advancement and increased understanding of the Earth and our solar system through expanded human space flight today announced their support for NASA's new strategy for space exploration.

The President outlined an ambitious effort to foster the development of path-breaking technologies; increase the number, scope, and pace of manned and unmanned space missions; make human spaceflight safer and more efficient; and help create thousands of jobs. Included in his vision for NASA is a sequence of deep-space destinations matched to growing capabilities, progressing step-by-step until we are able to reach Mars.

The president stated that his administration is committed to a bold, new approach to human spaceflight, and is increasing the NASA budget by $6 billion over the next five years in order to embark on this ambitious strategy that will foster the development of path-breaking technologies, increase the reach and reduce the cost of human spaceflight, and help create thousands of new jobs.

He pointed out that this new strategy means more money for NASA, more jobs for the country, more astronaut time in space, and more investments in innovation. It will result in a longer operating lifetime for the International Space Station, new launch capabilities becoming available sooner, and a fundamentally more ambitious space strategy to take us to an increased number of destinations and to new frontiers in space. By undertaking this strategy, we will no longer rely on our past achievements, and instead embrace a new and bold course of innovation and discovery.

"Commercial space exploration is a supplemental avenue to increase innovation and participation in NASA's incredibly valuable work," said Tiffany Montague, Google, Inc. "There is room for both private and governmental entities in space, and this new proposal will allow NASA to focus on long term planning while lowering costs and opening space to a new generation of entrepreneurs and explorers."

Next Step in Space supports the following important features in the President's plan:

• Advances America's commitment to human spaceflight and exploration of the solar system, with bold new vision and timetable for reaching new frontiers deeper in space.
  
• Increases NASA's budget by $6 billion over 5 years.
  
• Leads to more than 2,500 additional jobs in Florida's Kennedy Space Center area by 2012, as compared to the prior path.
  
• Begins major work on building a new heavy lift rocket sooner, with a commitment to decide in 2015 on the specific heavy-lift rocket that will take us deeper into space.
  
• Initiates a vigorous new technology development and test program to increase the capabilities and reduce the cost of future exploration activities.
  
• Launches a steady stream of precursor robotic exploration missions to scout locations and demonstrate technologies to increase the safety and capability of future human missions, while also providing scientific dividends.
  
• Jump starts a new commercial space transportation industry to provide safe and efficient crew and cargo transportation to the Space Station, projected to create over 10,000 jobs nationally over the next five years.
  
• Continues the development of a modified Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle to provide stand-by emergency escape capabilities for the International Space Station.
  
• Puts the space program on a more ambitious trajectory that pushes the frontiers of innovation to propel us on a new journey of innovation and discovery deeper into space.

"This new strategy will leverage private investment to create thousands of jobs across the country," Commented Sierra Nevada Corporation Executive Vice President and Chairman Mark Sirangelo. The commercial spaceflight sector looks forward to strengthening our partnerships with NASA and the US Government to help develop new technology that will deliver cargo, fuel, and crew to the International Space Station and for other low-Earth orbit missions."

"Today President Obama eloquently articulated an inspiring future for American exploration of space," noted Elon Musk, president of Space Exploration Technologies Corp (SpaceX). "His vision harnesses our nation's unparalleled system of free enterprise and will ensure that America will remain the preeminent leader in space for decades to come. By leveraging the capabilities of the private sector, NASA can focus its vision and resources on goals beyond low-Earth orbit, with the long-range goal of establishing a human presence on Mars and ensuring the program is affordable enough to be sustained. Personally, I feel the same excitement that Americans must have felt in 1961, when JFK announced our commitment to put a man on the moon. SpaceX looks fo rward to playing a role in helping the President build on NASA's extraordinary legacy and remarkable achievements, by unleashing American ingenuity and expanding the frontiers of technology and exploration.

To date, more than thirty businesses and organizations have joined Next Step in Space. Members of the coalition include:

• 4Frontiers Corporation
  
• Anadarko Industries LLC
  
• Analytical Graphics, Inc.
  
• Associated Industries of Florida
  
• Blue Smoke
  
• Cisneros Innovation Strategies
  
• Commercial Space Gateway
  
• Commercial Spaceflight Federation
  
• Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
  
• eSpaceTickets.com
  
• Esther Dyson/ED Ventures
  
• Google
  
• Information Universe
  
• MarsDrive, Inc.
  
• Murphy International Enterprises
  
• National AeroSpace Training and Research Center (NASTAR Center)
  
• National Space Society (NSS)
  
• Next Giant Leap
  
• Odyssey Moon LLC
  
• Odyssey Space Research
  
• Orbital Outfitters
  
• Paul Price Enterprises
  
• Phillips & Company
  
• Satwest LLC
  
• Sierra Nevada Corporation
  
• Space Adventures
  
• Space Coast Economic Development Commission
  
• Space Florida
  
• Space Frontier Foundation
  
• Space Infrastructure Foundation, Inc.
  
• Space Tourism Society (STS)
  
• SpaceX
  
• Special Aerospace Services, LLC
  
• Virgin Galactic
  
• X-Prize Foundation

About Next Step in Space
Next Step in Space is a growing coalition of businesses and organizations dedicated to scientific advancement and increasing our understanding of the Earth and our solar system through the expansion of human space flight. The mission of Next Step in Space is to support efforts to:

• Develop and deploy human space flight and related technologies including robotics that expand human capabilities in space operations and exploration;
  
• Extend and enhance the full utilization of the International Space Station;
  
• Encourage the development of the commercial space industry and new space-related markets;
  
• Strengthen the U.S. Space industry through new investment in scientific research, innovation and job creation in the Space Economy.

posted 04-16-2010 07:42 PM               

NSS Applauds President's Commitment to the Mission of NASA and the Role of Space in Providing for the Future

The National Space Society applauds President Obama for his expression of firm commitment for human spaceflight, and for moving forward in refining the administration's plan for space exploration.

Following the announcement of the President's FY2011 budget proposal for NASA, the Society advocated for the inclusion of more detailed goals. NSS is gratified to see President Obama take another step in that direction to secure America's position as a global leader in space. This will foster a new space economy servicing the needs of America and humankind.

The President's speech of April 15, 2010 stated emphatically his, and his administration's, commitment to the mission of NASA and its role in providing for the future. He stressed a focus on future accomplishments and laid out a plan for

• dramatically increased robotic exploration and scouting missions,
  
• an advanced replacement for the Hubble Space Telescope,
  
• an array of expanded Earth/climate sensing work,
  
• extension of the life of the International Space Station and provision of funds to use it to the fullest,
  
• support for commercial transportation initiatives for cargo and crew,
  
• development of the Orion spacecraft to serve as a Space Station Crew Emergency Vehicle and its evolution to a Beyond Earth Orbit exploration vehicle,
  
• design completion for a Heavy Lift Launch capability no later than 2015 followed by the production of the vehicle,
  
• investment in the Technology, Research, and Development to enable the use of the material resources and energy in space and to address the challenges of the Beyond Earth Orbit space environment (such as radiation shielding, advanced propulsion, etc.), and
  
• human Beyond Earth Orbit missions to asteroids within the next two decades, Mars orbit by the mid-2030s, and the Martian surface in his lifetime.

The President stressed the importance of a transformative agenda for NASA, and the critical role of breakthrough technologies in enabling NASA and our nation to create the future we wish to see come to pass.

The Society congratulates the president for refining his vision to include such incremental goals as the design of a Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle by 2015, and a preliminary timetable for human exploration destinations.

The National Space Society has and continues to be a staunch advocate of a balanced, comprehensive, sustainable, and personally engaging mosaic of space programs that will transform our tomorrows.

The President has committed his administration to making it so.

The National Space Society looks forward to working with the executive branch, congress, industry, the space advocacy community, and the general public to foster, achieve, and sustain the consensus needed to see it come to fruition.

About National Space Society

The National Space Society (NSS) is an independent, grassroots, non-profit organization dedicated to the creation of a spacefaring civilization. Founded in 1974, NSS is widely acknowledged as the preeminent citizen's voice on space. NSS counts thousands of members and more than 50 chapters in the United States and around the world. The society also publishes Ad Astra magazine, an award-winning periodical chronicling the most important developments in space.

posted 04-16-2010 11:41 PM               

"...enable human explorers to conduct the first-ever crewed mission into deep space to an asteroid, thereby achieving an historical first"

posted 04-17-2010 12:28 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikej:
No, that would have been President George H. W. Bush, July 20, 1989

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posted 04-17-2010 02:20 AM            

The idea this president wants to end US human spaceflight is nonsense, having committed NASA toward the long-term goal of deep space exploration. Long-term means NASA doesn't need to abide by crippling timescales as in the past.

He's also left a door open for his successor to utilise a heavy-lift rocket and Orion becoming a truly multi-faceted spacecraft.

posted 04-17-2010 04:05 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cjh5801:
And surely even you would concede the benefit of having a real-time telepresence on Mars (as opposed to the current 40 minute or so delay between individual commands). By the time we get there, we'll have had experience with real-time telepresence on the Moon, which should greatly increase the efficacy of such missions.

---

posted 04-17-2010 04:27 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by moorouge:
The communications delay to Mars is something that cannot be avoided...

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posted 04-17-2010 06:59 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Sure it can, if the distance those communications are traversing is a crew in Mars orbit to a rover/robotic arm on the surface

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posted 04-17-2010 07:36 AM               

But will it happen is anyone's guess.

posted 04-17-2010 07:44 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by alanh_7:
I thought the idea of orbiting Mars makes much more sense than an asteroid mission.

---

posted 04-17-2010 10:11 AM               

Again its all about funding.

posted 04-17-2010 12:42 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by moorouge:
Nevertheless, the time delay in Mars/Earth communications will still be a huge problem to overcome in any manned mission to the Red Planet.

---

posted 04-17-2010 02:12 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by issman1:
I think the beauty of Obama's revised plan is that it's subject to change - nothing is set in stone.

---

posted 04-17-2010 04:15 PM               

Likewise, If you missed the Beatles, Apollo, Vietnam... whatever; I feel for you, but at least you're young.

The space shuttle and ISS went through many cutbacks, redesigns and delays, because every administration gave them lower and lower priority.

The President is being pragmatic and flexible. With the current political climate, the party of NO will take whatever the opposite position the President takes. That's their (apparent) job.