posted 02-01-2010 03:15 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
And from which NASA launch sites will they be launching from?

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In the meantime, unmanned cargo flights will fly from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station and NASA's Wallops Flight Facility.

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
"Never, neverland" space programs as Pete Conrad called them.

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posted 02-01-2010 03:24 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
To the contrary, the budget makes it possible that U.S.-based manned launches might resume in 2014 (albeit optimistically).

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posted 02-01-2010 03:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Lunar_module_5:
7 years ago today, was a sad day. Today feels like that day again.

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posted 02-01-2010 03:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
SpaceX already has a Space Act Agreement with NASA...

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posted 02-01-2010 03:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt T:
Personally I find nothing optimistic about abandoning a deep space exploration program in favour of more LEO doldrums.

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This is just the beginning of the announcements coming out of NASA. As was stated during the teleconference, in the upcoming months, NASA will be announcing specific flagship missions beyond low Earth orbit and the technologies that will be used to accomplish them.

posted 02-01-2010 03:33 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
This station was eventually named Alpha. This was changed or cancelled and the ISS was born.

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posted 02-01-2010 03:40 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercury7:
No one is advocating doing away with robotic missions or questioning their value. But no they do not inspire the same way as manned spaceflight, never have, never will.

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posted 02-01-2010 03:47 PM               

Planetary Society Statement on Obama Administration's Proposed Space Exploration Plan and Fiscal Year 2011 NASA Budget

Society Urges Congress to Endorse New Plans for Human Space Flight

NASA received both strong support and a new direction from the Obama Administration in the fiscal year 2011 budget proposal. The new funding - an increase of six billion dollars over five years - stands out in the face of a widespread government budget freeze. Among other noteworthy proposals is the major shift to commercially developed rockets for human space flight.

While many details are still to emerge, The Planetary Society welcomes the overall budget increase and other proposals by the Obama Administration for NASA, and urges Congress to use the Administration's proposal to finally advance human exploration beyond Earth orbit and beyond the Moon.

The Administration proposes to cancel the Constellation program in favor of the commercial industry's providing new rockets and NASA providing new technology for exploration beyond Earth orbit. The new plan appears consistent with the "flexible path" defined by the Committee to Review U.S. Human Space Flight Plans, headed by Norm Augustine.

"The new plan should enable human space exploration to move ahead more realistically and even more quickly than previous plans," said Louis Friedman, the Society's Executive Director. "A continuing series of new achievements along a flexible path into the solar system would be more inspiring than going back to the Moon, and more affordable as it proceeds step-by-step into deep space," he added.

Other highlights of the budget proposal which the Society supports include:

• Substantial new funding for competitively-selected commercial launch vehicles to provide U.S. access to the International Space Station
  
• Extending International Space Station operations to at least 2020
  
• Initiating several new technology development programs to permit human exploration beyond Earth orbit and into the solar system, including $3.1 billion over five years for heavy lift launch vehicle technology
  
• Establishment of a new program of robotic missions to a variety of solar system destinations, to serve as precursors to eventual human exploration
  
• Continued strong support for robotic space science missions, including full funding of Mars exploration and the James Webb Space Telescope, as well as early formulation funding for a mission to explore Europa
  
• Strong support for Earth Observations, including the re-flight of the Orbiting Carbon Observatory and the acceleration of efforts to monitor and understand global climate change
  
• Greater engagement with other space-faring nations to enable more ambitious human and robotic exploration

Society President and planetary scientist Jim Bell stated, "The President's proposal represents a major paradigm shift in NASA's human exploration program while maintaining solid support for continuing robotic missions and space science research. Particularly compelling is the plan's commitment to fast-track a significant new set of robotic precursor missions as well as the heavy-lift capability needed for deep space exploration. The scientific, technological, educational, and economic benefits of such a complementary and publicly-engaging human and robotic space program could be profound."

Society Vice President Bill Nye, the Science Guy, remarked, "Under the President's plan, NASA will engage a whole new generation of explorers and scientists. We'll develop the technology to explore Deep Space, reaching new milestones in space and accomplishing new things here on Earth."

Last year the Society presented its recommendation "Beyond the Moon: A New Roadmap for Human Space Exploration in the 21st Century" to the Augustine Committee and the incoming Obama Administration.

"To form that Roadmap, we polled our membership and sought opinions from many scientists, engineers, managers, and politicians. Many of the recommendations that we made were similar to those of the Augustine Committee's 'flexible path,' " Bell noted.

Recommendations included an international program of sending astronauts step-by-step beyond the Moon and out into the solar system, establishing new distance and flight duration records on the long road toward Mars. Included in these steps would be missions to near-Earth asteroids, important exploration objectives in their own right.

The Society, through its leadership and membership, will strongly urge Congress to adopt such a roadmap as they consider the Administration's budget request this year. Emphasis on the integration of science and exploration, and on international cooperation among space-faring nations for ambitious missions, will continue as the Society focuses on public interest, inspiration, and engagement for the future.

posted 02-01-2010 03:51 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
As for commercial ventures, I'm afraid my faith in commercial ventures... I'm still getting over the excitement from the last unmanned mission to hit the moon...

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posted 02-01-2010 04:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Perhaps this needs restating then...

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posted 02-01-2010 04:15 PM               

Robots collect great data on the cheap, but if we had a human there on Mars, all it would take is a little push and Spirit would be on its' way.

posted 02-01-2010 04:25 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
It's a disappointment, a real disappointment!

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Anyone who knows me, anyone who has spoken to me over the past six years, knows that no one wanted a return to the Moon more than I did.

But the reality is, we weren't going. The funding never came and in today's political climate, the same Congress that some here are hoping will save Constellation would have been the first to kill any budget of the type needed to come close to making it a reality (at least $15 billion over and above the NASA budget over the next five years, if not more). Even if the funds were granted, the institutional and technical problems would still exist and we would be right back in an Apollo scenario: we would reach the Moon by sacrificing any hope of going elsewhere.

von Braun came to this realization during the Apollo years and suggested canceling Apollos 15 through 17 in an attempt to reach Mars. It was too late and the proposal never gained any political traction.

So, yes, I am disappointed. I am disappointed that the Vision for Space Exploration wasn't funded from the start. Then, maybe, Constellation might have had a chance.

posted 02-01-2010 04:37 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Apollo Redux:
...with an established track record

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Oh yeah, 15 minutes in space.

Today NASA has the track record, and the commercial sector has the enthusiasm. Combine them and you've got one heck of a team.

posted 02-01-2010 04:43 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Apollo Redux:
The euthanizing of NASA...

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Yeah, let's kill NASA by giving them more money and goals they can accomplish.

How can we expect the general public to support the space program when the enthusiasts on this board are having such a hard time getting a handle on the positive aspects of this change in direction?

posted 02-01-2010 04:46 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by robsouth:
Anyone heard of that? Yeah thought not.

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posted 02-01-2010 04:48 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Today NASA has the track record, and the commercial sector has the enthusiasm. Combine them and you've got one heck of a team.

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I'd like to see your list of the companies that you expect to put in the hundreds of billions of dollars it will take to get beyond LEO?

posted 02-01-2010 04:55 PM               

Maybe I'll be collecting Social Security when it happens, but I still wouldn't call the a death knell for NASA. It certainly is a sea change, however.

posted 02-01-2010 04:56 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Apollo Redux:
I'd like to see your list of the companies...

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posted 02-01-2010 05:24 PM               

ATK Issues Response to GFY11 NASA Budget Proposal

Alliant Techsystems today released the following statement on the GFY11 NASA Budget Proposal:

The President's budget proposal is the first step in a long process that will ultimately require Congressional approval. It is not clear why at this time the nation would consider abandoning a program of such historic promise and capability - with so much invested. We anticipate additional detail on the budget proposal's impact on the nation's space policy to unfold in the coming weeks as the Congress and industry are provided an opportunity to review these recommendations.

Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle have expressed their concern over this apparent change in policy direction. NASA and its industry partners have made significant progress in Constellation's development, culminating in the successful Ares 1-X test flight.

Ares is meeting all major milestones. The Ares I launch vehicle is an innovative and now proven design with an overriding concern for crew safety. It is 10 times safer than any launch vehicle in existence or on the drawing board.

NASA's own Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel recently concluded that "The Ares I vehicle has been designed from the beginning with a clear emphasis on safety. To abandon Ares I as a baseline vehicle for an alternative without demonstrated capability nor proven superiority (or even equivalence) is unwise and probably not cost-effective."

In the weeks and months ahead we are hopeful that the Congress and Administration will work together to deliver a budget that supports a program that capitalizes on the investments the nation has made in the Constellation program, closes the gap in US capability to return to space, and best assures continued US leadership in space.

We believe ATK will continue to play a significant role in America's future space exploration.

ATK is a premier aerospace and defense company with more than 18,000 employees in 22 states, Puerto Rico and internationally, and revenues in excess of $4.8 billion.

posted 02-01-2010 05:26 PM               

Coalition for Space Exploration Awaits Collaboration between the White House and Congress on America's New Space Initiative and FY2011 Budget

The Coalition for Space Exploration (Coalition) looks forward to a thorough evaluation by the Congress of the budgetary framework President Obama has proposed to ensure NASA can sustain a robust and balanced space program of human spaceflight, climate, science, robotics and aeronautics.

As the president said in his State of the Union address, other countries are not playing for second place - and neither should the United States. Even in today's difficult economic environment, we call on our nation's leaders for intensified bi-partisan efforts to provide long-term, consistent direction and support for space exploration. Having witnessed how stops and starts are detrimental to our national space program, we are concerned with the proposed termination of the Constellation program and sustaining a high-level workforce. We urge the White House and Congress to come together under the proposed budget increase for NASA to develop a sustainable, long-term strategy.

With adequate funding, NASA can continue to provide a significant return on investment in the form of tens of thousands of high-tech jobs and advancements that spur the development of new competitive industries. NASA enhances international partnerships and serves as a beacon for youth to study subjects that will enable them to successfully enter the modern global economic workforce.

It will take leadership, vision and investment to ensure that America's leadership in space is preserved along with the many benefits that exploration brings. We urge the Congress to take steps that will ensure that NASA has the resources it needs to continue to advance our space program as one worthy of a great nation.

About the Coalition for Space Exploration
The Coalition for Space Exploration is a group of space industry businesses and advocacy groups that collaborates to educate and inform the public and Congress on the value and benefits of investing in NASA.

posted 02-01-2010 05:40 PM            

The reality is we should be doing both: continuing with Constellation while facilitating the development of reliable commercial involvement. There are simply some things that the nation must do and others that commercial companies can do. We need BOTH.

posted 02-01-2010 05:48 PM               

But in regards to the unmanned program, I myself understand that probes can't show emotion at the fantastic images they take but we can, I remember in the late 80's a BBC documentary called Horizon which dedicated a programme to the Grand tour and the images sent back from the Voyager probes which at the time were mindblowing and drove me on to study Astronomy in the manner I have done.

And I feel deeply sorry for all those working for NASA who may worry for there jobs and futures who work directly with the manned programs, plus it must be a frustration for the Astronauts still without a flight.

posted 02-01-2010 05:49 PM               

No president since then has been able to set a goal that has survived their administration intact. None have fully funded their own visions, so what chance was there that their successors would feel compelled to carry on? Where's the benefit for a sitting president taking the political heat necessary to pump money into something that will be credited to a predecessor anyway?

posted 02-01-2010 07:05 PM               

Prepare for the worst. Well, the way I see it, the Obama administration has put the final nail in U.S. manned spaceflight's coffin. Okay, let me put down my thoughts and questions one by one.

Commercial space. I liked the idea of having commerical space companies take over transporting crew and cargo to ISS, but only if NASA was given the task of getting out of LEO. That isn't going to happen. Now, I am in no way a businessman, or pretend to know how a business works. It looks like all of the companies, in particular Space X, are start-up companies. What will happen if Falcon turns out to be a flop? What if Space X decides it is too expensive to man-rate Dragon? What if there is a loss of crew on Dragon on one of its first missions? If any of that occurs, will Space X be able to recover from such a loss, or will the company fold? If that happens, will we be dependent on the Russians forever to get our guys into space? The same can be said for any commerical space enterprise. It seems to me that putting all of our eggs into the commerical space basket is foolish.

The ISS. Okay, we have ISS for another ten years. That ten years will fly by quick. So what are we going to do after that? We were going to go to the Moon, but not anymore. So then what? Build another ISS? I seriously doubt it. Build our own space station? I doubt that, too. If the Russians and Chinese go off and build their own stations, will we have to beg to have one of our astronauts visit for a few weeks every couple of years? How visionary! How bold! I can't wait for that!

Right now, if we take this path, I predict U.S. manned spaceflight will end when the ISS re-enters the Earth's atmosphere. If we don't have the vision and the guts to push out of LEO now, I don't think we will in ten or twenty years time. We will just have some fun companies doing suborbital hops for giggles. If we are lucky, maybe we will get back to the Moon for Apollo 11's 100th anniversary in 2069. Heck, I'll be 90 so I might make it.

Hope for the best. Maybe NASA will come up with some creative ideas that will spark the public's imagination and open the wallet of Congress. I'm not holding my breath...but maybe. Maybe the international community will get together and make plans to get out of LEO. Maybe. But I'm not counting on it.

I've always been pessimistic by nature. I sure hope I am wrong on this. I'm mad, and a bit disillusioned. I should have known going back to the Moon was too good to be true.

posted 02-01-2010 07:10 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercury7:
Today we lost the Moon but more importantly today is the day America lost its leadership in space.

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posted 02-01-2010 07:49 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by BC:
This from an open, transparent, work-with-both-sides administration.

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Well, if you bought THAT, I've got some brand-new heavy-lift boosters for sale, as it happens, at a very reasonable price...

posted 02-01-2010 07:50 PM               

One need look only as fare as the health care bill to realize it's the same old ideas floated 16 years ago

I hope I am wrong. But with no clear time table, and no viable system on the table in near future, I fail to see how canceling a program that was beginning flight testing, is going to move the program foreword.

Asking the very aerospace companies who often missed deadlines and ran over budget to now take over the manned spacecraft development seems to me like giving my daughter the keys to a candy store.

posted 02-01-2010 07:55 PM               

The guy who designed and is building the first commercial space liner always called NASA "NAY SAY". Now if the FAA will get out of the way, maybe many more with much more capability will blossom and some day we'll look back at the way it got to be after Apollo and the Shuttle and say...hey, we did it right.

posted 02-01-2010 08:08 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by alanh_7:
It is me belief that once the shuttle program ends, and the American people realize and there is no alternative for manned space flight other than offered by the Russians, that the American people will want to know why? And then ask the simple question 'what are we going to do to catch-up'.

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Like you, I'm willing to consider the idea that this needn't be the calamity that most here seem to think. I support the development and incentivization of private space access 100%. Somewhere I saw a comparison of the proposed approach to the US government's mid-wifing of commercial aviation through airmail contracts early last century. Let's hope.