posted 02-21-2010 10:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cspg:
as far as I'm concerned, the US holds the cards.

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You are, of course, correct and it's a view I share.

However, as far as I'm concerned it's Mars or bust! Until then, America should make maximum use of the ISS capabilities.

posted 02-21-2010 10:34 AM               

Subject: NASA News
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:45:31 -0700

Dear friends and family,

For many of you it has been a long time since last contact, so I hope this note finds everyone well!

I am not one to provide mass e-mail ordinarily; however, a very unusual circumstance regarding NASA's future has been unfolding that I felt compelled to share. The President's budget request for fiscal year 2011 (beginning in October) calls for the cancellation of NASA's Constellation program. Specifically, the budget calls for the outsourcing of all human spaceflight services to an unproven private sector. What this means to our space program is deeply disturbing. The Space Shuttle will be retired this year, after its final flight (4 to go) and with the proposed cancellation of Constellation, which was intended to replace Shuttle with ever more capable spacecraft, there will be no US capability to transport American astronauts to the space station or other future destinations.

Constellation was envisioned to provide far safer and more capable access to space, including plans to return to the moon, asteroids or one day Mars. However, the President's budget would outsource human spaceflight access for our nation to private companies who seek to develop other markets such as space tourism. This market is a fantasy that remains in our distant future. Our astronaut program as we know it would evolve to private corporate space fliers, and our access to the International Space Station will be via Russian launchers. We are ceding our leadership in space. Worse, when the Shuttle program ends and Constellation is terminated there will be 25,000 high tech jobs in our workforce that will be in limbo as there will be no existing government contracts in place to actively and productively engage this workforce.

Many of you know that I have had the personal privilege of being the general manager at ATK for the development of the Ares rocket under Constellation... and we achieved our first flight in October, earning with it Time magazine's invention of the year award for 2009. Ares was designed to be 10 times safer that Shuttle, achieving the objective of drastically reducing the risk of another Challenger or Columbia accident... Ares would be terminated under Constellation, in spite of this success.

Obama's budget for NASA takes the agency back years and cedes our leadership in space to China, Russia and other nations who see the value in a robust program. What is most disturbing however is the PROCESS. Administration political appointees to the NASA agency have disenfranchised the ENTIRE leadership team in the agency who are our nation's braintrust on how to execute our space program... Hubble, Mars Rovers, International Space Station , Shuttle to name a few would not exist without these incredible folks... and the Administration has put forth a budget proposal that no one in the agency's technical ranks has the foggiest idea how they can support or execute. The proposal to cancel Constellation puts 25,000 high tech jobs on the street with the enactment of the bill at the end of this year.

So given this very strange and disturbing set of circumstances, I thought I would share links to three web sites, where you can register for a petition to the President, and find further information on how to contact your Congressional representatives and the President by fax or mail. The links to these web sites are below. Please feel free to forward this note and information widely... The Congressional process to review, alter and approve the budget is just beginning, so now is the time to write if you are so inclined.

• Tychotics
  
• Save Constellation
  
• Support Constellation

This last web site in particular has additional background information on the program.

The important messages to communicate are:

NASA's Constellation program must not be cancelled. Constellation systems must continue to be developed so that we maintain our world leadership in space, motivate our youth to pursue careers in science and math, provide for safer access to our International Space Station and ever greater destinations in space, and continue to reap the benefits created by NASA's high tech workforce.

The change that is needed to the President's budget is simply one of balance. We cannot put all our eggs in one basket and hope that the private sector can provide for NASA's space mission needs. Funding needs to be restored to the Constellation program (interestingly NASA's budget did not go down with this cancellation, the funds were just vectored to purchasing services from this undefined private sector). Constellation development and a rational amount of stimulus to spin off NASA space flight technologies to the private sector are both achievable within the President's budget request. Prior to this budget NASA was investing $4B to stimulate private sector space activities. With this budget proposal, NASA's own Constellation Program and its promising future will be canceled to underwrite an additional $6B to this undefined private sector activity.

Thanks for reading... don't hesitate to pass this along.

posted 02-21-2010 11:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
Received from Charlie Precourt, former astronaut... am not one to provide mass e-mail ordinarily; ...We cannot put all our eggs in one basket

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posted 02-21-2010 12:28 PM               

The three-stage ATK COTS launcher consists of, a first-stage with a 2.5-segment derivative of the Space Shuttle’s 4-segment Reusable Solid Rocket Motor (RSRM); an ATK Castor 120, used on the Lockheed Martin Athena's I and II variants and Orbital Sciences Taurus launch vehicles, for its second-stage; an ATK Castor 30 third-stage; and an Orbit Adjust Module, which has been flown on the Athena. ATK has been developing the Castor 30 internally for the last two years.

Teamed with major players in rocket booster and spacecraft development, the company is set to take the lead in the commercialization of space. PlanetSpace is developing a broad spectrum of commercial space services that include Cargo and Crew to the ISS, Point-to-Point Global Travel, Space Tourism, Satellite Orbital Delivery and Escape Velocity Missions.

posted 02-21-2010 02:25 PM               

But because of Obama's track record so far it seems naive to think his plan for NASA is anything more than just a way to begin its total phaseout in a way so that it sounds still palatable enough to have it gain acceptance.

All Mr. Precourt seems to be saying, in my view, is that moving so much of what was always thought to be NASA's raison d' etre over to a sector that isn't yet ripe is a mistake. Considering what the costs would be for NASA to recover if Obama's "vision" for the private sector proves wrong is what makes it an untenable gamble; there's simply too much at at stake.

posted 02-21-2010 02:38 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
If Obama's plan simply wanted to utilize a burgeoning private sector's capabilities as part of a "bigger picture" scenario for NASA to lead space exploration in this century I, and I suspect many others, would gladly support that kind of initiative.

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quote:

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But because of Obama's track record so far...

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posted 02-21-2010 02:56 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
...all the fur that's flying, here and just about everywhere else the subject is being debated, is just a big hulabaloo over misconception?

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posted 02-21-2010 04:11 PM               

This was the biggest decision for the direction of NASA, since Nixon in 1971 and, like Nixon, Obama booted it.

We are doomed to piggybacking on Soyuz flights for the next decade. I might add that I predict that it will cost $100 Million per seat on the Soyuz after the end of the current contract in 2012. We, in the US, are out of our league in negotiating with the rest of the world.

Furthermore, I also predict that NASA's budget will be cut by 35% after 2012 to cover the extra cost of the new health care bill and the failing personal and commercial real estate mortgage crisis. No roll back of the Bush tax cuts is going to cover that debacle.

posted 02-21-2010 04:12 PM               

I must say after awhile it does become a little insulting, as though the problem were one of inability to comprehend on our part, or that we're thought naive enough to not be able to recognize the difference between poor policy and poor communication on their part.

posted 02-21-2010 04:22 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
...calling it a communications problem as a facesaver to change the plan

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posted 02-21-2010 04:42 PM               

Weigh in on NASA - Take a moment to take this survey - I will share the results with Sen. Nelson's subcommittee on Wednesday.

posted 02-21-2010 05:20 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
If there will be no change to the plan forthcoming, what miscommunication has there been?

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quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
If Obama's plan simply wanted to utilize a burgeoning private sector's capabilities as part of a "bigger picture" scenario for NASA to lead space exploration in this century...

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posted 02-21-2010 05:46 PM               

...I, and I suspect many others, would gladly support that kind of initiative... provided it specified what exact duties would be left up to NASA, and gave details (including destination(s) and reasonable target dates, with specific goals along the way) so measurable parameters for determining success or failure are in place.

posted 02-21-2010 06:42 PM               

There really is no plan. This administration has been wallowing around for a year now.

I don't blame the administration for the economy, since it was a problem that has been coming on due to past decisions that have been made by this country as far back as the 1960's and the "Great Society."

I do blame the administration for it's inability to effectively decide on a policy and communicate it to the people that are paying for it. It took a year to post a policy about the future of NASA. Furthermore, Bolden, Garver and Holdren failed to include other decision makers in NASA before they sprung this joke on the country.

Let's face it, the Obama Administration doesn't care about spaceflight. They picked the White House dog, before they picked the NASA Administrator. That should tell you their priorities. John Holdren told an MIT group of us in July that the next big Apollo type project would be in the environmental field.

There has been no miscommunication. The administration is just reeling from the backlash of their proposed plan of ending US maned spaceflight. Obama made his intentions clear during his campaign. Why are any of us surprised?

Robert, as we have discussed. I will bet you $10 that 1) We will not have a manned rated launch vehicle before 2020 and 2) the Russians will bump the cost of a seat in a Soyuz to $100 Million after 2012, and finally, 3) the White House will cut the NASA budget in the face of mounting debt in 2012.

We only have two years to wait for two of the bets to come to fruition.

If I am wrong, then I will gladly pay you. Hell, I will take you and a friend to Fudruckers in Houston to pay the bet. Just don't belittle my arguments as I have studied this whole issue as part of a university space policy group for over two years now. This was coming and the signs have been there, since 2008.

posted 02-21-2010 07:04 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
You have other posters warning you that you are crossing the line from reporter to cheerleader.

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That I refuse to speculate (good or bad) is not cheer-leading, nor does it mean that my position is any less considered than yours.

That you feel that the plan is "joke" does not make it so.

posted 02-21-2010 07:15 PM               

Rebuke is such a strong word.

posted 02-21-2010 09:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
The administration is just reeling from the backlash of their proposed plan of ending US maned spaceflight. Obama made his intentions clear during his campaign.

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posted 02-21-2010 09:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
You are defending the plan.

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posted 02-21-2010 10:10 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by issman1:
That's assumption on your part, like someone guessing your political affiliations from your comments.

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Obama stated very clearly that he would delay Constellation for five years in order to help education. He recanted later, but he leaves no doubt that he has gone back to his original decision.

His prepared statement, made during the Apollo 11 crew meeting in July of last year, failed to mention the Moon. It did state that he hoped that by 2020 to have the best graduation rate of students in high school and college.

I voted for Obama. I believed in him being a centrist. Yes, I am disappointed, but if you review his prior comments, it should be no surprise.

I am just glad I got see Man land on the Moon. It was a thrill that we won't witness again in my lifetime. Maybe yours too.

posted 02-21-2010 10:40 PM            

I keep reading in certain news reports how Obama has denied NASA from returning astronauts to the Moon in 2020?!

posted 02-22-2010 03:30 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
What does matter is that a debate about the plan remains centered on what the plan really is, and not what others might imagine or misunderstand it to be...

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Those more impatient or distrustful than yourself aren't necessarily forming opinions only on the basis of imagination (should we read as "delusional?") or misunderstanding ("stupidity?"), as you've posited; (with all due respect, it does seem somewhat condescending to imply anything but a trusting and patient stance is impertinent and unwarranted).

If, as Bolden has said, there has only been a miscommunication or misstatement of plans already formulated by Obama and/or his administration, why should it take weeks or months to provide enough information just to set the record straight? Either there IS a good plan in place (with only the specifics botched when it was released), or the plan needs more "fleshing-out" to give it the specificity it lacked in the first place. If the latter, why was an undeveloped plan put forward constituting policy for an agency as crucial as NASA? (if it is indeed so considered by this President).

posted 02-22-2010 07:02 AM               

Is that too much? Should there be a middle ground? Should there be a NASA Human spaceflight component?

posted 02-22-2010 07:44 AM               

We ALL agree that space exploration is important.

I believe we ALL support helping commercial space companies succeed.

The plan to spend money on infrastructure and game-changing technology IS important for laying the foundation for future growth and exploration.

Why can't we agree that ALL of it should be done AND continue Constellation? We all know that money spent ON space is not spent IN space.

I attended the Obama rally in Titusville in 2008. I was photographed by the local paper holding up a sign reading: SPACE = JOBS = TAXPAYERS = VOTES.

The police instructed me to stand among others who were holding less than supportive messages for the candidate and I received many angry stares from supporters until they read my sign.

I too voted for the President and even posted my endorsement here on cS after the rally. I WANTED to be inspired the way President Kennedy inspired my parents, the way President Reagan inspired me (yes I was a "Reagan Democrat").

There is a rally at the same location President Obama visited this coming Saturday. I intend to attend. Hell I already lost my job so I have nothing to lose.

There are certain things that I am willing to pay increased taxes for. A strong, robust, space program is among them.

I want a plan that allows us multiple redundancy. I want spacecraft and launch vehicles designed by "rocket scientists" and not accountants.

I want Congress to stop bickering and get something done.

I want the commercial sector to succeed but I don't want us stuck on the ground if they don't.

I appreciate having the Russians sell us rides but that is relying on one system for access to space. It was wonderful to have them ready and able to keep us flying after Columbia - but what happens if they suffer a major failure?

Let's agree to disagree on certain aspects of the plan. It WAS communicated badly. Last Friday there was a "space summit" in Orlando. NASA's deputy administrator was sent to represent the agency and told those in attendance that he was given one day's notice. His lack of preparation was evident. My question is WHY did NASA send someone so unprepared? Why did local politicians ask questions like "Why is the shuttle program being shut down?" Why didn't that politician ask President Bush or Mike Griffin that question four years ago? Even if the shuttle program were to be given a reprieve today - there would be a two year gap in launches due to supply lines being shut down as early as two years ago. That local politician either knew that or should have known that. Stop trying for the cheap political shot!

My point is NONE of us wants to see a launch gap of more than two years. Let's coalesce around the parts of the plan we CAN agree on and make sure our representatives know we will not accept anything less.

posted 02-22-2010 09:55 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
You can't have it both ways: either Bolden is a good man or he is a liar.

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You forgot a third - he's now a politician answerable to and appointed by more powerful politicians.

posted 02-22-2010 10:19 AM            

Thank you for contacting me regarding NASA's Constellation Program. I appreciate having your views on this very important issue.

(edited out unrelated here)

The Constellation program is the best means for America to remain the global leader in human space flight. Not insignificantly during this time of economic uncertainty, human space flight accounts for thousands of high paying American jobs and are essential to maintaining our leadership in space. At a time when the Constellation program continues to meet important programmatic milestones (on a smaller budget than promised) changing NASA's course would bring instability to the agency and weaken America's role as the global leader in human space flight.

I strongly urge the President to reconsider any attempt to reduce the role of human space flight at NASA. Congress also has an important role in the decision making process and I will be working steadfastly with my colleagues to ensure that this short sighted proposal is not the final answer on the future of NASA.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. I am honored to represent you in the U.S. House of Representatives. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to contact one of my offices or visit my website.

Very respectfully,

Pete Olson
Member of Congress