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Author
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Topic: Ares I-X: flight viewing, questions, comments
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moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 10-21-2009 04:37 AM
   
Thanks for the response Robert. It still looked as if a puff of wind would blow it over though. I'm assuming that there were wind restrictions on the move? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-21-2009 10:08 AM
Ares I-X was confirmed by tests to be able to withstand winds of up to 45 knots (52 mph). For rollout, there was a predicted limit of 30 knots (35 mph) and at its start, the "go" to start rolling would not have been given if winds were not less than 20 knots (23 mph). |
BlackAce
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posted 10-24-2009 11:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ScottJ:
In any event, the A/B Camera Stop on the "Up-Close" tour on 10/26 should provide a good view of Altantis on 39A and Ares I-X on 39B.
When I took (i.e. paid for) the Up-Close Tour the weekend prior to the Hubble launch with shuttles on both pads, they only took us out as far as the observation gantry. A/B was "scrubbed" from that particular tour, since it would have taken us right past 39B, which was the entire reason I paid to take the tour yet again. Anyone know if this will be the case again this weekend? I'm planning to head over tomorrow to snag some photos from the Seashore, and then take the Up-Close Tour, but I don't want to get burned again. I'm not going on the Up-Close for the tour, I'm going for the A/B stop.  |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3604
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-24-2009 11:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Daylight saving ends in the U.S. ends on Sunday, November 1 at 2 a.m.
This comes as a surprise to me, and justifies my enquiry. We put the clock back (from BST to GMT)early tomorrow morning, so if the launch goes ahead as scheduled on Tuesday 27th October at 8.00am EST, that will be only FOUR hours behind GMT, so it's a noon launch here. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-24-2009 01:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce:
Anyone know if this will be the case again this weekend?
We were there Thursday and they do go to the A/B stop. For us however, the tours were sold out therefore we could not go, so order ahead online. |
SpaceDust
Member Posts: 126
From: Louisville, KY
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 10-25-2009 12:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce:
...and then take the Up-Close Tour, but I don't want to get burned again.
Wouldn't it be nice if KSCVC would update their website or when you got there that you could find out where the tours were going so you won't get burned? I've been down this road too. Expecting to get a good view only to find myself way off in the bushes somewhere. If any one at KSCVC is reading this please take this suggestion to the top for me and others. |
BlackAce
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posted 10-26-2009 05:26 AM
Yes, I do. I went ahead and risked it, based on what was posted here, and indeed got pictures about 800 feet away from Ares I-X. The bus driver was great, in the sense that he kept coming to a complete stop for extended periods of time so everyone could take tons of pictures at the places that weren't actually stops. Usually they've just slowed down or stopped briefly before moving on. I don't know if it was because I was on the last tour of the day or what, but it was great. National Seashore was open to, so I went around afterwards and took some night shots of Ares and Atlantis on the pads at the same time. Very very cool. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-26-2009 07:32 AM
Great for you! We had hoped to see those views. Can you send some pics my way? Also, welcome to the cS family! |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 10-27-2009 12:02 PM
Did anyone else think that this first attempt to launch rather bizzare?I liked the comment made that "We've never had that happen in tests..." when the probe cover became stuck. But to try to tug it free with a length of rope and then say we'll launch with it still attached if it wasn't freed! And did anyone notice the bird perched there just before this incident? How come a cargo ship strayed into the restricted area? Isn't shipping warned? In pictures of the incident - what exactly is the tube sticking out of the side clearly visible in shots taken by the TV camera? Ah well! Better luck tomorrow. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2009 12:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
But to try to tug it free with a length of rope and then say we'll launch with it still attached if it wasn't freed!
The cover was attached to the probe using velcro. Its purpose to prevent water from entering the probe's five instrument openings. Given the height of the rocket, the only way to disconnect it was by pulling on the lanyard to which it was attached. Though undoubtedly humorous (it generated a lot of hoots and hollers in the press center), it doesn't seem to dissimilar to tyvec thruster covers failing to come loose during a shuttle ascent. quote:
How come a cargo ship strayed into the restricted area? Isn't shipping warned?
Ships are warned and there are penalties in place for violating the restrictions. It is not yet known why the freighter veered into the area, but you can bet the Coast Guard is investigating. quote:
In pictures of the incident - what exactly is the tube sticking out of the side clearly visible in shots taken by the TV camera?
If you referring to the cover "incident," then the "tube" was likely the simulated thruster on the launch abort tower. On edit: Looking at the video, it appears the "tube" you saw was one of the attach points for the "birdcage," the ground support equipment used to hoist the mockup LAS and Orion capsule atop the stack in the Vehicle Assembly Building. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 746
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 10-27-2009 02:05 PM
I have a question: I've read that the Ares I-X first stage SRB is a Shuttle SRB that aged past its Shuttle shelf life. If so, was a matching booster ever put together, and could that twin still be available for use in the Ares development program? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2009 02:13 PM
Space shuttle SRBs are not intact units; the cases -- cylinders and domes -- of which they are composed are used interchangeably, which is why the Ares I-X SRB, for example, has a flight history representing 30 different shuttle missions. Each component (less one, which is new for this test) was flown on different shuttle missions. So by definition, there is no matching SRB. With regards to the individual components and their shelf life, according to ATK, the cylinders and domes flown on Ares I-X will be re-serviced post-flight and prepared for future reuse (though too late for the shuttle program, for which all remaining flights SRBs are already assembled). |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-27-2009 03:19 PM
The incident with the ship was truly unfortunate, because it caused NASA to miss the best opportunity to launch today by a matter of a couple minutes. Take away the ship incident and Ares would have likely flown.I wonder what the cost of a scrub is for the Ares I-X. While there isn't the concern with de-tanking the main propellants, I assume a scrub and reset is still a somewhat costly proceedure. Say what you will about the Ares, it's a cool-looking rocket sitting on the launch pad...and a world of difference to those of us who grew up with the shuttle. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3620
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-27-2009 04:35 PM
Maybe somwhat late, but there is a new public viewing site available for the upcoming Ares 1-X and future shuttle launches. KARS Park, located off Hall Road on Merritt Island, near the Banana River, offers a good viewing site looking directly north with a clear river view to Launch Pads 39A/B (about 9 miles away). Cost is only $10 per car/vehicle. For prior shuttle liftoffs, NASA used the alternate site on many launch occasions and spectators were quite happy with it. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3604
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-27-2009 05:22 PM
There seemed to be an outbreak of "Go Fever" among the launch team, particularly at one point when someone enquired whether they could recycle the count to T-4minutes to catch a launch opportunity, only to find it was just too late. Not a criticism - who could blame them for wanting to do the launch? In the end they were the consummate professionals and bowed to the inevitability of a scrub. Good luck for Wednesday, NASA! |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 746
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 10-27-2009 05:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Space shuttle SRBs are not intact units; the cases -- cylinders and domes -- of which they are composed are used interchangeably, which is why the Ares I-X SRB, for example, has a flight history representing 30 different shuttle missions.
I was referring to the propellant itself, not the segment casings. I thought that the propellant for a segment for the right booster, say, was poured from the same propellant batch as the corresponding segment on the left booster, to ensure perfectly equal thrust. I guess these four segments were just leftovers. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-27-2009 05:52 PM
We were at the Visitor Center (for 6+ hours!). The place was empty and I think they were giving away parking placards today for tomorrow’s attempt just so they could sell more food and drinks in the morning!If it does not go tomorrow we have to head back, so Thursday is out for us, although officially I don't think they have the range for Thursday. Not a total wash for us as we had a great discussion with Al Worden at the Astronaut Encounter (where they had the NASA live feed running). If you have not been to KSC in a while, they no longer give you a signed photo of the visiting astronaut when you do the lunch with the astronaut deal. Instead the visiting astronaut signs all things at the Space Shop between 4:45-5:30 PM. Therefore we came back to our room, down loaded some photos of Apollo 15 and went back (yes we have annual passes) and had them signed. So it was a very good day and we hope for a launch tomorrow, GO 1-X!!! |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-27-2009 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
There seemed to be an outbreak of "Go Fever" among the launch team, particularly at one point when someone enquired whether they could recycle the count to T-4minutes to catch a launch opportunity, only to find it was just too late.
I don't know if I would call it "go fever." They just knew that the window for the weather was rapidly closing and enquired whether a re-set could be made more quickly to accomodate the weather. The hardware appeared ready to go...it was just that they needed to take advantage of rapidly changing breaks in the weather in order to have an opportunity to launch. For me, "go fever" would mean that they would have launched even if the conditions weren't right. Instead, they stuck to their rules (even though I admit I was yelling at the TV to launch it even though the ship entered the range ) |
spaceheaded
Member Posts: 169
From: MD
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 10-27-2009 07:26 PM
A Weather Channel video clip announces "NASA scrubs mission to moon." |
Mr Meek
Member Posts: 353
From: Chattanooga, TN
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted 10-27-2009 09:18 PM
I was on the causeway with David Hitt and Scott Johnson. It was my first launch attempt and first scrub. Here's hoping for better luck tomorrow. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3415
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-27-2009 09:21 PM
Just arrived in Orlando from the UK, so hope to get over to see the potential launch Wednesday. I guess we'll head to the new site advised by Ken, but if anyone has any updates please post them. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3604
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-27-2009 09:51 PM
Good luck Paul! Let's hope that bird soars! |
cspg
Member Posts: 6347
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 10-28-2009 09:59 AM
What is this issue with "triboelectrification"? It's static electricity due to friction but friction from what? Is this issue even been raised during shuttle launches? I've never heard it before. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 10:09 AM
The shuttle, nor other mature launch vehicles (including eventually Ares I) have triboelectrification as a concern because their outer coatings have been tested and qualified to avoid building up a static charge while passing through high altitude clouds.That static charge is an issue because it could interfere with range and telemetry communications. It is very possible that Ares I-X would be safe from it too, but the verifications were not complete when the launch criteria were finalized. Should we delay another month (or so), it may be that the risk for triboelectrification will be understood and therefore waived as a launch criteria. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6347
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 10-28-2009 10:37 AM
Thanks Robert for the explanation.SRB seperation: what an awful sight. |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1267
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 10-28-2009 10:39 AM
Looked amazing on NASA TV.
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OV-105
Member Posts: 901
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-28-2009 10:41 AM
Is it me but it looked like at sep that the 1st. an 2nd stage sim hit each other. The pic on NASA TV froze at that point then cut away. |
LCDR Scott Schneeweis
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posted 10-28-2009 10:44 AM
Yes... it impacted/recontacted resulting in tumbling of the dummy stage. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 901
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-28-2009 10:49 AM
They just showed a different camera on the replays. The 1st. stage went over the 2nd stage sim. This is why you fly test flights. |
Walter II
Member Posts: 36
From: WV
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 10-28-2009 11:06 AM
I thought they looked awfully close, then the footage cut away. Interested to see what NASA says. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1961
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 10-28-2009 11:07 AM
Glad to be able to witness once again the start to a new human space vehicle.Everyone involved should be rightfully proud. Good day to be American. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3604
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-28-2009 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
Just arrived in Orlando from the UK, so hope to get over to see the potential launch Wednesday.
Well, Paul? As one of "our men on the spot" did you see the bird soaring? Impressions?On a completely different note, that looked a lot more spectacular than the little rocket that lifted off from Woomera 38 years ago today. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 02:05 PM
Here are couple of my shots; these were originally posted to the journal thread but I am replacing them there with NASA shots.It was really great to see Ares I-X finally fly after watching it come together over the past few years. And with the upper stage now somewhere under the sea, I'm proud to have retained a piece!  
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dtemple
Member Posts: 766
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-28-2009 03:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
The shuttle, nor other mature launch vehicles (including eventually Ares I) have triboelectrification as a concern because their outer coatings have been tested and qualified to avoid building up a static charge while passing through high altitude clouds...
If the coating was sufficient for the space shuttle SRBs then why was it a concern for the shuttle-derived Ares I SRB? Was a new coating being used? |
dtemple
Member Posts: 766
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-28-2009 03:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LCDR Scott Schneeweis:
Yes... it impacted/recontacted resulting in tumbling of the dummy stage.
This failure is a bit of a shock to me. If this rocket had been an all-up test like Apollo 4 (or even more serious, like STS-1) what would have been the result of this collision? I was impressed with the dummy second stage, crew module, and escape rocket staying in tact while flying sideways. Of course the air is thin at that altitude, but at that speed a lot of stress was applied to the tumbling structure.I couldn't avoid mentally comparing STS-1 and Ares I-X. If the latter had been flown with a crew I don't think NASA would be calling the mission a success! Yes, without a crew, it can be labeled a successful test flight. I am sure a lot will be learned from it which is the point. Still, to have the stages bump like they did seems like something that shouldn't have happened; staging has been done a "gillion" times over the decades. While a new rocket does introduce a new set of variables, staging seems to me like it should be "Basic Rocketry 101." |
mercsim
Member Posts: 248
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-28-2009 03:58 PM
Did they care? I don't think there was separation motors. The explosion of the separation charges would have created a little force but the drag of the upper segment was probably larger than the booster which could explain why it slowed quicker backing it into the booster until they started to tumble. I'm sure this was looked at and the engineers knew what to expect. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 05:07 PM
Stage separation was one of the objectives of this test flight, and yes, they did have separation motors: just after the explosive charge that physically separated the two stages, eight upward-firing rockets at the base of the first stage booster ignited to back the first stage away from the second.And while it did visually appear that there was contact between the stages of some type, it is not yet known if that was the case. Quoting Bob Ess, Ares I-X mission manager: "The separation seemed a little different than we predicted as far as how the upper stage reacted after separation. So right there's an opportunity for us to jump in and figure out what was different in the actual flight from our models." |
mercsim
Member Posts: 248
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-28-2009 05:14 PM
It's interesting to see how the first stage floats with the fifth segment (simulated of course) sticking out the same as the fourth usually does.Has anyone found any photos of it under parachute? Were they using the new ones? If so, you would thing they would have planned some extra recovery photography. Does anyone know more? |
fireflyer21
Member Posts: 35
From: Evansville, IN
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 10-28-2009 05:27 PM
I enjoyed watching the launch on NASA TV and congratulate those involved with its success. It can't be easy to work on the program with the uncertainty surrounding the future, and I am proud of the work that they have done. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 10:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sts205cdr:
I thought that the propellant for a segment for the right booster, say, was poured from the same propellant batch as the corresponding segment on the left booster, to ensure perfectly equal thrust.
I asked ATK about this, and they said that their rule is that shuttle booster segments are poured within 21 days of each other, and then as you say, it is by matching segments. So yes, a matching set of segments is somewhere in their inventory. However, as future Ares test flights (e.g. Ares I-Y) are planned to fly on five-segment boosters, and their propellant is poured differently to maximize thrust, all future flights will use new motors. |
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