posted 01-26-2010 04:03 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercury7:
...losing the moon.

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posted 01-26-2010 09:10 PM               

If exploration and human expansion were predicated on public support, America would still be a land of people living in tepees and wigwams among the roaming herds of buffalo. And we'd be communicating by means of written parchment, not the internet. There are some things you just do without waiting for consensus and approval.

Abandoning our lead in the quest for exploration and exploitation of the cosmos would be an epic mistake. We are in danger of becoming a once ambitious and innovative society now primarily concerned with paying for Viagra and botox treatments for an overweight and out of shape population more interested in who will win the next American Idol than sending people to the moon, Mars and beyond. Centuries from now, they'll be talking about the Fall of the American Empire, not the Roman one, and how other nations picked up the slack and forged ahead. I truly hope and pray it doesn't come to that.

posted 01-27-2010 02:05 AM            

I don't necessarily blame NASA for this decline. But it should have articulated the "why" argument much more than it has. Professor Stephen Hawking has the best argument for human expansion into the universe as an imperative: Survival.

I may be criticised for saying this, but current concerns of climate change and terrorism would never have been an issue if human colonies existed on our Moon or Mars.

Perhaps the bizarre theories of Richard C. Hoagland regarding lunar and Martian anomalies should have been seized upon by NASA as a pretext for astronauts being sent so far away and at great expense... Okay, now I'm stretching my point(!)

posted 01-27-2010 06:59 AM               

For years, polls have indicated that about 1/3 of the U.S. population are strongly pro-space, 1/3 are against space exploration, and the other 1/3 are fence-sitters. NASA has not always done a good job of explaining its mission and contributions to science and the U.S. economy.

The other factor is the job issue in key aerospace states such as Florida, Alabama, California and Maryland. Unfortunately, the senators and congressmen from these states tend to take a short-sighted approach as to what would help their constituents rather than what is best for the country.

Chances of a significant increase for NASA certainly have been eradicated by current concerns about the huge budget deficit. Most people don't realize that NASA takes up only about 0.6% of the U.S. budget -- a drop in the bucket.

posted 01-27-2010 07:59 AM               

...according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's long-awaited plans for the space agency, NASA will look at developing a new "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low Earth orbit...

...the White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects -- principally, researching and monitoring climate change -- and on a new technology research and development program that will one day make human exploration of asteroids and the inner solar system possible.

There will also be funding for private companies to develop capsules and rockets that can be used as space taxis to take astronauts on fixed-price contracts to and from the International Space Station -- a major change in the way the agency has done business for the past 50 years.

Officially, companies such as Boeing still support Constellation and its millions of dollars of contracts. Some believe that in a battle with Congress, Ares may survive.

"I would not say Ares is dead yet," said an executive with one major NASA contractor. "It's probably more accurate to say it's on life support. We have to wait to see how the coming battle ends."

posted 01-27-2010 08:20 AM            

In the same way NASA's grandiose plans for a large space station leading to a Moonbase and an eventual flight to Mars by 1986 were nixed by Nixon, so the Vision for Space Exploration is being scaled back by Obama.

posted 01-27-2010 08:38 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by issman1:
...so the Vision for Space Exploration is being scaled back by Obama.

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posted 01-27-2010 08:55 AM            

It reminds me of something former US vice president Gore said in 1990, after the news emerged Hubble had an improperly grounded mirror. Gore said NASA had been trying to do "too much with too little".

posted 01-27-2010 09:20 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by issman1:
And therein lies the problem. Insufficient funding and token support by one president after another has brought NASA to where it is today.

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Flying a Star Wars and Toy Story toy into orbit is simply laughed at and looked upon as a waste of money.

posted 01-27-2010 09:40 AM            

It's not just the irreverence of toys being flown on billion-dollar shuttle missions, but the one with John Glenn, STS-95 back in 1998, is now seen as an expensive joyride. If the science had any merit, why wasn't there a follow-up study with another geriatric astronaut?

posted 01-27-2010 09:40 AM            

The only ray of hope I have left is a comment from a friend who attended meetings yesterday and was actually excited.

posted 01-27-2010 10:53 AM               

That said, with the shuttle in retirement and private companies going to the ISS, NASA should either have a lot of excess money to spend on something, or else they're in for a really big budget cut in the future.

Finally, I still can't get why the administration doesn't see funding NASA as a nice stimulus package, especially for the middle class. As the old saying goes, not a penny of NASA's budget is actually spent in space; it's all spent on Earth. Why not shovel a few billion more dollars to NASA to pay a legion of engineers (which this country needs), technicians, computer people, secretaries, machinists, factory workers, etc., to do something visible and uplifting, thus creating some real, lasting jobs instead of paying a construction company to repave a section of highway for a few months?

posted 01-27-2010 11:03 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by kr4mula:
I'm very curious to see how they'll design a heavy-lift rocket to go beyond Earth orbit when no one seems to have said where exactly that will be or what it will do when it gets there.

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posted 01-27-2010 02:43 PM               

If the Internet had been there when Apollo went on, we would have had a very difficult time of completing Apollo. After the tragic fire and at other times, there were all different engineers and scientists who said we should do it 'this way' or it's unsafe but then we had good decision makers who made the decisions and we went ahead.

Today when that happens, they go to their computer and send an e-mail to the staffers on the Hill, the congressmen, the press, to you people, and so it shows up all over.

We didn't have that in Apollo. It would have been lots tougher in Apollo. Think about that.

posted 01-27-2010 02:51 PM               

"When I was growing up, NASA united Americans to a common purpose and inspired the world with accomplishments we are still proud of. Today, NASA is an organization that impacts many facets of American life. I believe NASA needs an inspirational vision for the 21st Century. My vision will build on the great goals set forth in recent years, to maintain a robust program of human space exploration and ensure the fulfillment of NASA's mission. Together, we can ensure that NASA again reflects all that is best about our country and continue our nation's preeminence in space."

"I know it's still being reported that we were talking about delaying some aspects of the Constellation program to pay for our early education program. I told my staff we're going to find an entirely different offset, because we've got to make sure that the money that's going into NASA for basic research and development continues to go there. That has been a top priority for us."

"I grew up in Hawaii, as many of you know, and I still recall sitting on my grandfather’s shoulders when those capsules would land in the middle of the Pacific"

Now we see the real agenda. With numerous appointee foul-ups, multi-billion dollar bank and insurance company bail-outs, a nearly DOA health care overhaul, and spiraling unemployment, this president hasn't had the time, let alone the interest, for considering the future of human space exploration.

While nothing is out officially, I don't think that reputable reporters are going to go out on a limb like this and report something that is absolutely false. The writing has been on the wall for a long time, and Obama has done nothing but send up "test balloons" since taking office. Some may sugar-coat what comes out of the budget, but the fact is that Obama is letting us down.

Griffin's unceremonious departure gave the "Ares haters" enough of a window to throw the shadow of doubt over the entire project, and then Obama appoints his commission to look at it. Now every time we look back and ask why the new lunar program was axed, the White House will always point to Augustine ("best and the brightest" remember?)

If ANY of this survives it will be because Congress refuses to reverse course, whether it be for a real vision or their own political self-interests doesn't really matter. I for one feel sorry for Charlie Bolden, who has a deep personal belief in what human space exploration is all about, and now has to be at the helm of an agency that is being told to "stay put."

Mr. President, it doesn't take committees, think tanks, political favors, or legislative maneuvering to keep America preeminent in space. It takes vision, leadership, and commitment. Some would say it takes action, not words, but one word from you would be all the action NASA needs:

posted 01-27-2010 04:06 PM            

It's 2am and I still can't stop thinking about the conference I attended today, it was wonderful.

posted 01-27-2010 07:15 PM               

The Orlando Sentinel and Florida Today got some confirmation late today about the White House's plans for NASA. In a telecon, an unnamed NASA official and unnamed administration official, along with former astronaut and Augustine committee member Sally Ride, provided these details:

• NASA would get an average of $1.3 billion a year in additional funding over the next five years;
  
• The ISS would be extended to 2020;
  
• A $6-billion program to develop commercial crew transportation would be started;
  
• Money would be set aside for technology R&D programs and infrastructure upgrades at the Kennedy Space Center;
  
• Ares 1 and 5 would be cancelled; and
  
• There was no discussion of a replacement heavy-lift vehicle.

A quote from Sally Ride: "For NASA to be getting new money over the projections is to me is an indication of how seriously this administration takes NASA and our goal of future innovations in this country."

But the NASA official stressed that the end of Ares I and Ares V rockets did not mean that the Obama administration was abandoning exploration and human spaceflight. Both officials said there would be "a very significant program," the most important part of which was the effort to develop private space taxis to take crew back and forth to the space station.

"We do believe it is time for American companies to come into this program," the NASA official said, pointing out that for decades private companies have been launching precious satellites into space. "The investment in that will be $6 billion over five years, this is serious, serious investment that we believe will reduce that gap [in human spaceflight] from what it would have been with the program of record between shuttle retirement and the Ares I and Orion [capsule] coming on line."

All told, the budget would provide $100 billion to NASA over five years and create an estimated 1,700 jobs in Florida in the commercial space industry and 5,000 nationwide. Kennedy Space Center would receive hundreds of new jobs from unspecified improvements to its facilities, with a faster pace of launches to keep the workforce more engaged.

posted 01-27-2010 07:36 PM               

First you say, "No bucks, no Buck Rodgers." Then shown the bucks, you focus on the lack of a mention (not the lack of a plan) for a heavy lift vehicle.

posted 01-27-2010 07:47 PM            

I will wait til Bolden speaks after the budget is released before passing final judgment on the new program but it is correct that this was a lie told to us in order to get our vote, Obama promised to support Constellation and a moon landing by 2020. That obviously has changed, what will the new date might be? I am back to not knowing if I will see it in my lifetime.

posted 01-27-2010 09:01 PM               

My biggest concerns for canceling Ares are that a lot of money has already been spent on it and switching to an alternative is going to mean ultimately more time and money spent on it before it flies (factor in inflation and it gets worse, especially if the economy stays bad). Okay, yes there is a possible commercial alternative to consider, but Falcon 9 has yet to fly and success is not guaranteed in either the short term or the long term. I would say whatever commercial firm goes the furthest with their own space hardware has to have a proven track record of flights before they are considered for launching astronauts. One reason is litigation. Government agencies can weather the storm of lawsuits and compensation, should (God forbid) there be another loss of an astronaut crew on a mission. The commercial side is in my opinion so embryonic at this stage that a major disaster could be very crippling financially if something were to happen and one of the potential causes might be a rushed through commercial contract.

posted 01-27-2010 10:21 PM               

Not only is the push for commercial crew and cargo to the ISS going to expand, but that push for commercialization will cover all aspects of American human spaceflight - LEO and beyond, cargo and capsules, and even the development of HLVs - all with an agency budget increase of $5.9 Billion over the next 5 fiscal years. Stay tuned.