posted 02-06-2007 09:09 AM               

[Nowak] was being held on no bond at Orange County Jail, but a judge this morning set bail at $15,500.

Her commander at NASA, Steve Lindsey, and fellow astronaut Chris Ferguson both appeared on her behalf this morning.

posted 02-06-2007 09:36 AM               

But haven't you, a family member, a friend, or a co-worker lost it or almost lost it at one time.

I hope that her friends will not desert her.

I am grateful for my friends, including my cS friends, who have helped and picked me up in my journeys.

posted 02-06-2007 09:50 AM               

The people on this board, and anyone else who has more than a superficial knowledge of the history of NASA, knows that relationship problems have existed in the astronaut corps in the past. Of course, it also exists in the non-astronaut population as well. It's not the relationship problem that is so shocking in this instance, it is how it was dealt with, and I frankly can't see how being an astronaut contributed the particulars of this sad, scary story.

posted 02-06-2007 10:01 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
Aristotle said that people outside society are either gods or beasts, and this just shows that we are all human and that we constantly need each other for love and guidance in life.

---

posted 02-06-2007 10:15 AM               

A couple of thoughts (caveat: IANAP -- I am not a psychiatrist).

I don't know that the adulation that Dr. Santy describes in her "Crashing to Earth" post necessarily produces "acquired narcissism" in those who are excessively adored by strangers.

Seems to me a lot of very famous individuals are able to stay sane and balanced. They do not necessarily become narcissists who don diapers to drive nonstop from Houston to Orlando with a bunch wet-work paraphernalia in the car.

Several examples of unassuming nonnarcissists spring to mind from the astronaut corps and A-list actors and actresses.

We have, what, hundreds of living astronauts now?

It's safe to say that they are drawn from a cohort of high-achieving obsessive types--admirable individuals, but not perfect--the vast majority of whom manage to keep their worst emotions in check most of the time. As Rob noted, felony charges are a rarity among active-duty astronauts.

One astronaut has just gone off the deep end as we watch in horror. But to castigate NASA culture for her behavior? I dunno.

posted 02-06-2007 10:15 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by spacecraft films:
Well, I've been considering it for some time now. I suppose I'll have to go ahead and announce the upcoming release of our "Astronauts Gone Wild" DVD collection.

---

That being said it's a sad story, for all those involved, and for our belief that astronauts are "special" people. Seeing one of them falling off the pedestal we've put them on, is sad.

Love is blind, they say. And with that, I can deal with the knife, the spray, the gloves, the trip, you name it.

But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers...Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom? No?

posted 02-06-2007 10:16 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ejectr:
That ends that career...

---

posted 02-06-2007 10:17 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I find it interesting that people want to discuss this here on cS, yet people also also thought Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper's faltering during the crew return shouldn't be discussed or be news...

---

posted 02-06-2007 10:57 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by thump:
One thing I hate about this, outside of the obvious, is that this is getting this much media, but shuttle/ISS operations get little, or no, media coverage.

---

That said, people are more inclined to read - and editors are more inclined to include - something if it's local. I don't recall what our ISS/shuttle coverage from the last missions were, but I do know that we ran our own piece (not AP) when Polansky, whose family lives in the area, called home following his last mission.

posted 02-06-2007 11:16 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cspg:
But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers... Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom?

---

posted 02-06-2007 11:20 AM               

Well, like someone else in the list said "they are human after all". Hmmmm...

posted 02-06-2007 11:35 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatiki:
If this was your daughter or wife she tried to mace, kindnap and do God knows what else, would you just want her "to get the help she needs"?

---

The act Lisa allegedly did is indicative of someone who has lost control. It sounds like a mental instability... something that can likely be treated. I doubt that Lisa is an inherently bad person who should be locked up forever and have the key thrown away. To me, she seems like a good person who cracked... going over the edge for a couple of days.

Also, remember her children. They are the ones who will suffer the most because of this. If Lisa can get her act together and assuming she avoids a long prison sentence, she can hopefully still be a mother to her children.

If you want her fired, don't worry... she has essentially ripped up her ticket back into space. NASA will NEVER allow her to fly again, assuming she's ever a free woman again during the remainder of the Shuttle program. They simply won't want the publicity. There are too many unflown astronauts waiting for their first flight to risk the bad publicity of giving another flight to Lisa. In fact, I suspect Oefelein's spaceflight career is done too... he probably won't be fired, but the future flight assignments may never come.

If you want her disgraced, don't worry. Her case has been made VERY public and millions of complete strangers who otherwise never heard of Lisa Nowak know what she did and will have seen the mugshot. Her disgrace has been magnified for everyone to see. Granted, that seems to be the consequence of having a very public job and then messing up.

Prison time? If found guilty of the attempted kidnapping charges, I don't think there is anyway around it... we're looking at 5 years, 10 years, life...

posted 02-06-2007 11:41 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I find it interesting that people want to discuss this here on cS, yet people also also thought Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper's faltering during the crew return shouldn't be discussed or be news...

---

I struggled with this story last night, whether to post it to the message boards and whether to make any mention of it on the front page. I consulted several space journalists who were in the same position and the consensus was that it was a legitimate — albeit ugly and regrettable — news story. Most, like myself, didn't relish having to write about it. The editor of at least one other website (NASASpaceFlight.com) decided not to publish an article and initially restricted discussion to a password protected area of their forums.

Frankly, I was concerned about the shape that this discussion would take and briefly removed a few of the posts that I thought were potential causes for trouble. I've since restored those posts and have apologized by e-mail to their authors. I must say I am proud of our readers' level-headed approach to this news, especially when compared to the discussions posted on other sites.

posted 02-06-2007 11:58 AM            

But we can point out everything, what could have been better, fact is, that things like this happen, all over the world and every time.

posted 02-06-2007 12:12 PM               

Sorry, but for me, someone who planned and made such criminal things (attempted kidnapping, attempted vehicle burglary with battery, and misdemeanor charges of destruction of evidence and simple battery, PLUS charged with first-degree murder attempt, according to Florida authorities as I speak) is anything BUT Human.

posted 02-06-2007 12:20 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cspg:
But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers... Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom?

---

posted 02-06-2007 12:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mjanovec:
Yes, I would. Because if someone tried to do that to someone I love, I would want them to get help to regain their sanity... so they never attempt to do it again.

The act Lisa allegedly did is indicative of someone who has lost control. It sounds like a mental instability... something that can likely be treated.

---

1. Her defense laywers will try to use STS-107 as the trigger that started her downfall. She "just couldn't handle the loss of her friends".

2. NASA will come out with a new policy on employee relationships.

posted 02-06-2007 12:56 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gordon Reade:
Has anyone stopped to consider that if Lisa had flown on STS-107 she would be remembered as an American hero of the first order.

---

The STS-107 crew didn't chose their faith.

On the contrary, that woman choose (and made really good preparation) every criminal action she did. It wasn't the result of circumstances.

And last, you mean that the STS-107 crew were 'lucky' by dying in flames at Mach 7 since that prevented them to potentially do some criminal actions later?

posted 02-06-2007 01:06 PM               

I think most of us need to stop and remember that this is terrible for the victim, Colleen Shipman.

We also need to keep in mind that Nowak is innocent until proven guilty.

Each jurisdiction is different but the way that this usually works is that police show up at the scene of a crime and fill out a report and affidavit. The person is held on the charges in that initial affidavit. They will go for a first appearance before a judge who will review the information submitted by the police and make a determination if probable cause does exist. If it doesn't, they are released. If it does, they get their bond set.

Now, keep in mind that all of this usually happens before the prosecutor (aka, district attorney) gets to look at the case. Once they do look at it, the prosecutor can amend the charges, especially if a subsequent investigation reveals more infomation than was known at the time of the arrest.

Based on the info we have, she planned this out, took very deliberate steps to carry it out, made efforts to disguise her identity and actually attacked Shipman. For some reason she failed to carry out her plan. But based just on what is in the news, her intent was to do serious harm and it isn't suprising that it was amended to attempted murder.

posted 02-06-2007 01:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1202 Alarm:
And last, you mean that the STS-107 crew were 'lucky' by dying in flames at Mach 7 since that prevented them to potentially do some criminal actions later?

---

posted 02-06-2007 02:09 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joe Holloway:
The female CNN anchor just described the new accusation as, "this TRUMPED-UP murder charge."

---

This is an ugly event no matter how you slice it.

But the reality is, she drove 900+ miles to commit an act. SOMEWHERE along that route, something should have clicked in her that this was not a good choice or good thing to do.

That it did not shows her intent. That she planned it with the paraphernalia she had and used it upon arrival, shows pre-meditation. 900 miles of driving pre-meditation to boot.

Having read her arrest affidavit I was surprised they had not charged her with attempted murder previously. Now I see why they did not.

The initial bond of $15,500 was ludicrous. They probably knew the Judge's history, and waited until the bond was handed down. When it happened as they suspected, they then presented the previously written information in open court filing it at that time. This negates the low bond, and will result in either a higher one, or a no bond situation.

Had a reasonable bond been handed down, then they would have pursued the charges in depth, and then either taken it to a grand jury or filed the information direct. This would have given them time to follow up more.

This is not unusual. This situation is highly unusual. Yes NASA does a ton of psych screening, but nothing is infallible. And IF this is a character/personality flaw, she could have easily beaten the screening.

posted 02-06-2007 02:18 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
I am wondering if some will try to benefit from this by selling some of her stuff on eBay...

---

posted 02-06-2007 02:25 PM            

I too hope that she gets the help she needs, but that she is also punished for what she has done.

I am sure this has ended her NASA career. Thinking about it, she is probably as shocked as we are.

posted 02-06-2007 02:55 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by albatron:
Yes NASA does a ton of psych screening, but nothing is infallible. And IF this is a character/personality flaw, she could have easily beaten the screening.

---

I heard other people off-list suggest that NASA failed in it's screening attempts. How many people suspected that OJ was capable of murder a decade before it happened?

posted 02-06-2007 03:16 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
In my opinion, selling or bidding on her autograph right now is not really appropriate. Give it at least a week or month. It can wait.

---

posted 02-06-2007 03:18 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatiki:
She needs to go to prison. She isn't insane or "not feeling" well. You have to be a bad/evil person to do the things she did. I worked with bad and evil people in law enforcement. She isn't a nut, just a bad seed.

---