posted 05-20-2009 01:36 AM               

Gen. Thomas Stafford Private Signing

World renowned astronaut Gen. Thomas Stafford has agreed to come out of signing retirement for a one-time private signing session! Hosted by the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation (ASF), the signing will take place this July as a means to raise money for the ASF and to support the curator efforts at The Stafford Air and Space Museum, in Weatherford, Oklahoma, which showcases many of his space artifacts.

Space enthusiasts are invited to send in artifacts, baseballs, covers, flown items, models, photos, and more by July 2, 2009 for the General to enhance with his signature. This is indeed a rare opportunity, as Stafford has not widely signed artifacts since 2003.

Stafford, an accomplished astronaut, flew four times in space. He served as Pilot of Gemini VI in December 1965, Commander of Gemini IX in June 1966, Commander of Apollo 10 in May 1969 and Commander of the joint American-Russian mission, Apollo-Soyuz Test Project in July 1975.

Celebrate the 40th anniversary of Apollo 10 by adding Stafford's signature to your space collection today! Don't delay, as this opportunity may not present itself again! Items will be accepted from May 19 through July 2, 2009.

posted 05-20-2009 02:30 AM               

When these things are announced you're hoping maybe they'll go for the principle of keep it reasonable and rake in lots of funds by selling bucket-loads of signatures. Then there's kind of a middle ground where the fee is above the going rate for their sigs but worth it for maybe one item. Then there's the kind of fee level where you really have to need that signature desperately to even consider paying that much.

posted 05-20-2009 09:14 AM               

I guess they would rather make thousands of dollars signing fewer items rather than earn thousands signing many items.

posted 05-20-2009 10:10 AM               

I note the following in the ASF instructions:
"Only a portion of the proceeds are going to the ASF, so tax-deductible donation receipts cannot be issued."

While one can certainly find Stafford autographed items for less, the signing is still useful to those with special items or who want personalizations. As always, no one is forced to participate.

posted 05-20-2009 12:07 PM               

@jimsz:
If folks are willing to shell out $1000 for a platinum ticket to the ASF fall show because it's a good cause, then surely they'll come up with Stafford's fee, and there will be hundreds, not just a few, based upon our three Young signings at $500 base fee. The economy stinks right now, but collectibles don't suffer badly in a recession because they have real value. And remember - your $40 Staffords are now worth $275.

@kr4mula:
Stafford has always routed signing earnings toward his museum in Weatherford, OK. I would expect some sort of split between ASF and the Stafford museum on this.

@all:
This may be Gen. Stafford's last mass signing. Best look at it that way and act now. As stated, he has not signed artifacts in awhile because his former handler wouldn't allow it.

posted 05-20-2009 12:51 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DChudwin:
I note the following in the ASF instructions:
"Only a portion of the proceeds are going to the ASF, so tax-deductible donation receipts cannot be issued."

---

posted 05-20-2009 01:32 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spacefest:
collectibles don't suffer badly in a recession because they have real value. And remember - your $40 Staffords are now worth $275.

---

We're not going to see Staffords on eBay zipping up from $100 to $275 just because of the signing. In the same way that the signature of nearly every currently-signing astronaut can be had more cheaply at auction/eBay if you're not in search of a personalisation. At signings you pay a premium for the personalisation element, or the chance to complete an item; at shows you pay for the same plus the opportunity to meet the guy. These are personal premiums, not market premiums.

posted 05-20-2009 02:42 PM               

The going rate for a Stafford WSS SP right now is probably in the $50-100 range. A Gemini 9 SP would probably go for $150-200, tops.

Anyway, my point was simply that I suspect he would raise significantly more money overall by charging a lower fee, but then you could argue that he doesn't want to spend several days on end signing stuff.

posted 05-20-2009 03:14 PM               

quote:

---

@jimsz:
If folks are willing to shell out $1000 for a platinum ticket to the ASF fall show because it's a good cause, then surely they'll come up with Stafford's fee, and there will be hundreds, not just a few, based upon our three Young signings at $500 base fee. The economy stinks right now, but collectibles don't suffer badly in a recession because they have real value. And remember - your $40 Staffords are now worth $275.

---

I disagree - the quickly increasing signing fees is simply creating a bubble which will pop. What is happening in astro autographs is mirroring exactly what took place in some other collectibles 10 years ago. Those collectibles which were artificially high in price can now be had for 25% or less than what they were selling for.

Mr Stafford can charge whatever he wishes but nobody should be purchasing any autograph with the plan it will appreciate in value.

posted 05-20-2009 04:25 PM               

And like all of us, they are aging. Only they will be gone before we're ready.

posted 05-20-2009 04:46 PM               

For me though, part of getting that small connection is to shake hands with the astronaut, ideally get a picture as well and exchange a couple of words, even if it is just a mutual "Hello" and "thank You". For me thats were the buzz is, the only downside of mail in signings is you don't get that moment.

posted 05-20-2009 08:45 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by benguttery:
I think I might need my lawyer and accountant to get together to interpret the fee schedule.

---

posted 05-21-2009 09:04 AM               

And just because he's charging $275 for his signature at this signing does not mean a picture I got signed in 2004 for $45 is now worth $275. Like anything, an item's value is determined only by what someone is willing to pay for it and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to pay $275 for a Stafford signature.

posted 05-21-2009 12:23 PM               

Try it... just ask a D-day veteran to sign a vintage map of Omaha Beach or Normandy or a model of the tank he rode on as he was shot in hedgerows or at the Bulge. Or ask an 85-year old pilot to sign a model of the Corsair or Hellcat he flew right before he was shot down over Peleliu or Tarawa.

These guys almost cry because they are so grateful someone bothered to remember them. It puts a bit of perspective on the space collecting business.

posted 05-21-2009 01:13 PM               

My father was naval aviator in the Pacific, and won a DFC, but I never got him to open up about it until just before he died. These guys, like test pilots, are modest to a fault.

posted 05-21-2009 03:11 PM               

I daresay most Americans today, when asked to name an astronaut, might be able to remember Neil Armstrong and maybe John Glenn. [I wonder how many people would be able to name a Shuttle-era astronaut.] How many could name a famous person from WWII other than Hitler, Churchill, Roosevelt, or maybe Eisenhower or Patton?

Many of us on this forum had the great fortune to be around in the 1960s, but we need to remind ourselves that we're in the great minority. There are many more people alive today who were born after the Moon landings than were born before 1969. Of this I was painfully reminded when I took an Apollo 11 item to the frame store lately and the clerk asked me, "What's Apollo 11?"

posted 05-21-2009 03:28 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Sumowski:
the difference between dealing with WWII veterans and Apollo veterans is simply profound.

---

posted 05-23-2009 10:01 AM               

Unfortunately, the days of obtaining free autographs are starting to dissipate, depending on what you collect. Participating in a Pittsburgh Steelers autograph seesion to celebrate their recent Super Bowl victory left a large hole in my wallet. On the other hand, I obtained the signatures of all the 2008 Kansas Jayhawks National Champions (including all the coaches) on a basketball for free. It all depends on what you like to collect and how far you are willing to go and spend for what you like.

Regarding Stafford, none of my Stafford items are inscribed to me. If I did not invest in the ASF acrylics, I probably would have participated in this signing. I relish having items inscribed to me and I find the high fees worth it over buying something for less cost that is inscribed to someone else or not inscribed at all.

posted 05-24-2009 08:16 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Sumowski:
These guys almost cry because they are so grateful someone bothered to remember them. It puts a bit of perspective on the space collecting business.

---

posted 05-24-2009 07:49 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Sumowski:
These guys almost cry because they are so grateful someone bothered to remember them. It puts a bit of perspective on the space collecting business.

---

posted 05-25-2009 08:12 AM               

My grandfather took part in the Normandy invasion as part of the Big Red One but he died before I was old enough to appreciate all he did. That regret led me to start seeking out stories from other D-Day vets and I thus got interested in WWII history about 10 years ago.

About five years ago I had the opportunity to meet many of the original Band of Brothers at a free book signing. I can't tell you how great of an experience it was. And I even got to know one of the Easy Company veterans and have kept in touch with him occasionally over the years.

I hadn't talked to him since I moved to Japan last year, but last month I overhead a conversation at work with some Japanese co-workers who had just watched the HBO DVD set and were really amazed at their heroism. On a whim, I emailed my veteran friend to ask if he would mind talking to my friends over the phone and share his experiences and compare them to the movie.

Well, he not only agreed to talk to my friends, but a couple of weeks ago he got up very early in the morning due to the time difference, answered every question they had with amazing detail, and patiently waited through some language translations that I had to make on a couple of parts. All in the course of almost two hours. And afterwords he sent them autographs and paid for the postage to Japan himself.

And the detail of his story, wow...he paints a much more vivid picture of the battles than I remember from reading the book or watching the HBO series. Things like the sound German artillery fire made as the bullets pierced his parachute nylon during the jump into Normandy, etc. All from a man in his 80's...

Now I'm not saying that any of the astronauts wouldn't also go to this length, and it's unfair to compare historical accomplishments as both are different and impressive in their own right. It's also the astronaut's right to charge whatever they want for their autograph, and we as collectors and consumers have the right to buy it or not. Some collectors will find that Stafford's current fee provides value to them (either financial or emotional), and some won't. And Stafford has seen people profit off his autograph for years so I can't fault him for wanting to get in on the game, especially considering his age.

But another thing, don't try to lesson the impact or contributions our WWII veterans made just because there were more of them than the astronauts.

posted 05-25-2009 10:09 AM               

And yes, the astronauts did their job voluntarily, but nonetheless at great personal risk. Bill Anders said he figured he had about a one out of three chance he wouldn't make it back from the Moon alive on Apollo 8. That's worse odds than B-17 crews had in WWII.

posted 05-25-2009 11:28 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ilbasso:
Bill Anders said he figured he had about a one out of three chance he wouldn't make it back from the Moon alive on Apollo 8. That's worse odds than B-17 crews had in WWII.

---