Author
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Topic: Astronaut Scholarship Foundation's Autograph & Memorabilia Show 2009
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Mark Zimmer Member Posts: 289 From: Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-24-2009 05:11 PM
On the Good Buzz and Bad Buzz, I've been to four events where Buzz was signing, and oddly enough he was the friendliest and most personable at the one where his signature was free. It may have had something to do with there being lots of kids (especially Scouts) there, and he was more than happy to chat and seemed to be genuinely having a good time. The other three, he seemed to be ticked off about something or other. Maybe he doesn't like charging for signing, even though he's obviously aggressive in his charges? Is he trying to discourage us? |
Spacefest Member Posts: 1168 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 08-24-2009 07:36 PM
Yes, but it's not working. |
jimsz Member Posts: 616 From: Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 08-24-2009 08:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by Spacefest: I'll submit as an authority, these guys ARE working people who AREN'T multi-millionaires. They can make much more on the lecture circuit than autograph shows.
If they were not making a worthwhile profit they would not be in the business selling themselves. People don't often become involved in business, which is what they are doing, without earning a worthwhile return. |
AJ Member Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 08-24-2009 09:06 PM
That isn't what Kim said. Kim didn't say they aren't successful, he said they aren't multi-millionaires. That is a HUGE difference. And you know what? If you don't like it, don't buy an autograph! For all I know, maybe you don't. But I think that it's fairly clear that life is not black and white, this is a complicated issue. Could you walk up to a stranger and say, do you know who Charlie Duke is? And they would know? Some of these men did truly amazing things but to this day are relatively unknown to the general public. I refuse to begrudge them earning a living.Oh and Kim's last post made me laugh out loud. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-24-2009 11:14 PM
quote: Originally posted by jimsz: If they were not making a worthwhile profit they would not be in the business selling themselves.
For the most part, these men are retired. That they charge for their autographs is in no small part because collectors decided to sell their (freely gifted) autographs. As an Apollo era astronaut once told me (before he started charging), "if collectors are going to treat this as a business, then I'll respond to them in kind." quote: People don't often become involved in business, which is what they are doing, without earning a worthwhile return.
If that was the case, collectSPACE (and a great many other websites and online publications) would not exist today... |
MCroft04 Member Posts: 1634 From: Smithfield, Me, USA Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 08-25-2009 11:59 AM
What would it cost to get the autogrpahs of 18 M-G-A-S (Skylab) astronauts if they did not charge and hence there were no autograph shows? There are 18 M-G-A-S astronauts currently scheduled to attend the ASF show in Nov. Based on previous shows you would pay ~$1700 to get their autographs (no completions, just single photogrpahs signed). Then assume that you'll pay $400 for hotel, $400 for air transportation, $200 for food and drink, and $500 for the ASF ticket. This totals $3200. Now, if they did not charge to sign, you have to assume few of them if any would attend an autograph show, so you'd have to travel to them to get an autograph (book signings, talks, etc). I assumed that some signings would have more than one astronaut, so it might take 10 trips to get these autographs, but at no cost. Then assume that it cost you $400 for transportaion on average (air and/or drive), $100 for food, $100 for hotel; this totals $600 per trip, times 10 trips equals $6000. It's going to cost you more money to get the autographs "for free". Plus the autograph show practically guarantees an autograph as compared to a one-off signing for free, where you'd be lucky to get the autogrpah and maybe a hand shake and quick picture. Whereas at the autograph show you get many opportunities to talk to many astronauts one on one, etc.. I just don't see how anyone can complain (short of changing prices at the last moment perhaps) about what these brave people charge for their time and autograph. |
divemaster Member Posts: 1376 From: ridgefield, ct Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-25-2009 12:03 PM
It never fails to amaze me how every year before an autograph show that a small group of people complain about fees while having no clue as to how these things work - and are also making HUGE assumptions about the hosts and the guests. It's SO very easy to complain about things while hiding behind a fairly anonymous e-mail address. But this has been going on since the online world started up as we know it today in the early 1980's. Same old complaints, just new subject matter. After awhile, it's just looked on as plain absurd. And it's so easy how one person complaining can kill a good thing for many other grateful people who don't say boo.I put this in the same category as those who complain about how much the space program costs without realizing where it sits in the grand scheme of the national budget - and how many jobs it creates right here on terra firma, let alone the long term benefits that are created. |
DChudwin Member Posts: 1096 From: Lincolnshire IL USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-25-2009 01:18 PM
I would like to second what "divemaster" said. The key point about these shows is not so much the autographs, but the opportunity to meet and interact personally with the astronauts (for which there is no fee except the admission price). At SpaceFest I enjoyed long discussions with Hank Hartsfield and Charlie Walker about the shuttle, with Charlie Duke about his capcom and Apollo 16 experiences, at lunch with Dave Scott, and at dinner with Jim McDivitt. Priceless! I did get some autographs, but it was the chance to see these men in an informal setting that was more meaningful. (I just hope my wife's health will allow me to go to the ASF show.) As to "divemaster's" second point, most people don't realize that NASA's budget is only 0.5% of U.S. budget-- down ten-fold since the height of the Apollo program. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-25-2009 01:30 PM
If you want an autograph and don't want to pay the fees, then consider buying something for sale by a fellow cS'er or well-documented from eBay. You can easily find a Buzz Aldrin autographed photo for much less than half of what he charges now.If you want to meet the astronauts - which is indeed priceless - then go to the show. At my first Spacefest this year, I spent a lot of time (and money) standing in line and getting autographs. Those were nice, but the memories of the conversations with the astronauts are worth far more to me than the pieces of paper with their handwriting. At ASF in November, I'll get a few autographs, but I'll spend most of the time "being in the moment" with these folks, rather than worrying about how much Buzz is charging. ------------------ Jonathan Ward Blogging at http://jonathan-spacejunk.blogspot.com |
AJ Member Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 08-25-2009 04:48 PM
Just noticed that John Blaha has been removed from the ASF show website. |
stsmithva Member Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 08-26-2009 06:46 AM
On the one hand, I think it's appropriate to talk about the astronauts' signing fees here. Yes, just meeting them is a wonderful part of this event, in fact the best part... but a lot of people will be paying hundreds or thousands of dollars each to get things signed, and if they have comments about that, here's the place. But on the other hand, I can't help but notice that this discussion happens before and after every event. Be it Spacefest, Autographica, a UACC event, ASF, or other, there are dozens of generic comments about astronauts' signing fees like we've seen in the last couple of weeks. Perhaps in the "Autographs" or "Advice and Opinions" forum there could be a topic thread "Astronauts' Signing Fees" in which such general discussion could take place. That way threads like this could remain dedicated to specific details about the event for which it is named. And anytime someone felt they had something new to add to the fees discussion, there would be a place for that. If there is already a thread for that - and I seem to remember that there is - perhaps people could keep such general discussion of signing fees there. Of course, there will be some comments about signing fees that are connected directly to ASF 2009. For example, I do hope (for others' sake; I loved last year's but can't go this year) that ASF is able to post a complete and accurate table of fees this time. (I know that depends on the astronauts giving them that information.) Last year I not only obtained and packed photos and models based on the posted fees; I also agreed to get things signed for three other cS members. I was disappointed to find all sorts of additional fees that could have been posted in the online table. I know this sort of thing has been discussed a few months ago, but one can't be expected to just think, "Oh well" and smile happily when for months under "Crew Completion" there is the word "None" (as in, no additional fee) for an astronaut; and then when we get there we are told that yes, there will be a hefty additional fee for that. There were several examples of that sort of thing. I had to pay the extra and just hope that two cS members would send me the additional money for their items. (They did.) Again, I know that depends on what the astronauts tell ASF and then honor when the event actually starts. Hopefully all involved will realize how frustrating those last-minute changes are. And now, in the interests of adding a comment about the event that is not related to signing fees, and in fact is pretty random... the hotel being used is again the Raddison. I know your schedules are going to be busy, but I hope you find yourself with some extra time one evening. A pleasant ten-minute walk (or one-minute drive) from the hotel is a raised wooden walkway a few hundred yards long and just a few feet from the water of the inlet. Supposedly there are manatees frequently visible there - in fact it's called "Manatee Park." I didn't see any manatees, but since it was November and I knew I'd be going hundreds of miles up north in a couple of days, I loved the warm evening sun over the water. Hopefully you'll get to stretch your legs and experience that at some point during your visit. (Of course, the Atlantic Ocean is in the other direction, but that was a much harder walk. If you are an early riser like me, you might want to hop in your car and drive a few minutes to see the sunrise on the beach.) I'm sure this is old news to people who get to live near the water, but for someone who lives in a crowded suburb, they were high points of the trip. Not posing-for-a-photo-with-Jim-Lovell-and-Fred-Haise high, of course! |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 08-26-2009 09:18 AM
We did not get to the Manatee Park last year but hope to this year. We have again made this our family holiday with my wife and 5 year old. We will be in Orlando for a few days before heading to Cocoa Beach on the Thursday before the show. After the ASF show we will be going on a 4 night cruise and heading back to Orlando for a few more nights after the cruise. Compared to the craziness of the Orlando Parks and 4 Nights locked board a ship with Mickey Mouse, the ASF show is (for me anyway) is a relative period of calm. We enjoy the Cocoa Beach area. This is our third trip there in the last two years. We learned a lesson last year about the actual autograph show, though. Our daughter and Astronaut shows do not always mix. On the days of the show we will go our seperate ways and meet at the hotel afterword. Still I think my daughter met as many astronauts at the hotel as I did at the show and she did not attend any of the evening events. Astronauts seem to love kids. |
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 08-26-2009 02:26 PM
Well, this has been interesting, but I think it doesn't belong on this particular thread. It takes away from the advertising of a show being put on for a wonderful cause. Not to say don't discuss it, but please, start another thread. As someone who's produced shows (before anyone else around here), co-produced shows, and attended shows, I will say the ASF does a wonderful job and I highly recommend if you are able, to attend. (But come to Spacefest also ) I will also say, knowing the astronauts as I do, whether they give the ASF a cut or not to a man they ALL support the ASF and do a lot for it year round. Many times at their own expense. I daresay Al Worden's work with the ASF, causes him nearly as much pride as his efforts on Apollo 15. He has related that to me numerous times. The traditional rule on shows of these types, is for the guests to give up a small percentage to offset the fees of the producers expenses to bring them there, put them up etc. Some shows require the astronauts to pay their own expenses. In this case, the fees returned are minimal at best. Not being familiar with the particular inner workings and what arrangements they may or may not have, I do not believe for a minute they do anything out of line. Even if the astronauts submitted 100% of their fee, it goes to their foundation and not anyones pockets. If the astronauts do not return a penny, they assist the ASF simply by their appearance. Monies can be made in other areas and hopefully, will. Interest into what each astronaut pays or does not pay to the ASF or what the particular arrangement is, truly is none of our business. But I can say - trust me - they give and give and give to the ASF. One way or another. Now how much they raise? That's another question. |
4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 08-28-2009 08:30 AM
OK guys and gals... time to change the subject here... I woke up this morning to an 'ASF show, 70 days away' note in my calender. I think I need a life. |
jimsz Member Posts: 616 From: Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 08-28-2009 11:13 AM
quote: Originally posted by divemaster: It never fails to amaze me how every year before an autograph show that a small group of people complain about fees while having no clue as to how these things work - and are also making HUGE assumptions about the hosts and the guests.
The replies to my posts both here and privately have gone off topic. If you read the thread and my replies, I was not complaining about the high prices Astronauts charge. My replies came into the discussion about what, if any, the astronauts donate to the scholarship fund.My belief now, is as posted, it is nobody's business if they donate or not. I have stated that in my opinion what is charged by some is ridiculously high, but they are free to charge what they want. They are businessmen now, nothing more and nothing less. FYI, I have been fortunate as most of my prized autographs (all the moonwalkers and most non-moonwalkers through Skylab, multiples of many) I received for free but have purchased a small number. |
disglobes Member Posts: 594 From: Orting, WA Registered: May 2000
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posted 08-31-2009 12:08 PM
I just saw that Mike McCulley is scheduled for the ASF show 6-8 November at KSC and 7 November at Purdue. Anyone know if he will be cancel out of the ASF Show or maybe just a Friday only show. |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 08-31-2009 02:04 PM
It looks like Mike McCulley was withdrawn from the ASF show. |
bigcrash3 Member Posts: 36 From: Summerfield, NC, USA Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 08-31-2009 02:07 PM
My first astronaut autograph event was the Sims and Hankow show a couple of years ago and I was also able to attend last year's ASF show. I hope I can make it back this year. By far, I had the most fun hanging out in the bar drinking beer after the banquet with Charlie Bolden, Charlie Duke, and Al Worden. Charlie Bolden stayed and talked until he lost his voice. |
tncmaxq Member Posts: 287 From: New Haven, CT USA Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-31-2009 05:09 PM
There is talk that STS-129 will be moved up from November 12 to the 9th. That would make it closer to the weekend of this event. If that launch date holds I would have to consider going. I suspect others could be persuaded to do the same. |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 08-31-2009 06:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by bigcrash3: By far, I had the most fun hanging out in the bar drinking beer after the banquet with Charlie Bolden, Charlie Duke, and Al Worden. Charlie Bolden stayed and talked until he lost his voice.
I was there. Charlie Bolden came over and we were talking about the Texas A&M game on the tube. He came for tea and honey because his throat was so sore from talking all day. We talked him into having a couple of beers. He did eventually get his tea and honey.Vance Brand also showed up for a few minutes too. |
AJ Member Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 08-31-2009 11:36 PM
For those who attended last year and stayed at the Radisson, I have a question or two. I'm thinking of saving a bundle of money by not renting a car. I've found several shuttle services, for the airport trip, but I am curious about Cape Canaveral itself, as well as the shuttle the Radisson has. Did anyone use the shuttle to go anywhere other than KSC? The website says it provides complimentary transportation within the "local area". I thought I would ask here, to hopefully get some "real" opinions, before I resort to calling the hotel. I also have no problem walking within a reasonable distance to restaurants, convenience stores, the beach, etc. Any and all help is greatly appreciated!! |
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 09-01-2009 02:07 PM
If you don't mind hanging around waiting for complimentary transportation to arrive and are happy with the limits it will present to you then go for it. But if it were me, I'd rent a car... much easier and faster to get around that way and also allows you to visit restaurants further away from the hotel... You could also visit the Astronaut Hall of Fame museum and the Space Walk of Fame museum in Titusville. |
AJ Member Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 09-24-2009 02:21 AM
Well, *some* of the fees for ASF are posted! I see that a number of astronauts are charging for inscriptions. Is this likely referring to verbose inscriptions, or will I be charged the extra fee just for having items signed to me? |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-24-2009 07:48 AM
Some increases this year but not by much really. Some stayed the same, so fare. |
johnraiders Member Posts: 78 From: Cobham, UK Registered: Sep 2009
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posted 09-24-2009 12:52 PM
Worden is $60, then $100 for completion, so does that mean $160 to complete or its $100 total? |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-24-2009 03:14 PM
quote: Originally posted by johnraiders: Worden is $60, then $100 for completion, so does that mean $160 to complete or its $100 total?
The general trend is that the "completion fee" includes both the base signature price and the extra charge for the completion. So $100 should be all that you'll pay. Of course, you'll want to verify that in person at the time of the signing before the ink hits the paper. |
disglobes Member Posts: 594 From: Orting, WA Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-25-2009 07:18 AM
Vance Brand last year Crew completion fee was $100. Given this, his base fee this year is $50 and completion fee is $50 so I would assume that Crew Completion will be $100 just like last year. |
SpaceSteve Member Posts: 428 From: San Antonio TX, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 09-25-2009 02:01 PM
It looks to me that the "completion fee" is in addition to the "base fee".For instance, Alan Bean has a $100 base fee and $0 completion fee. Also, Gene Cernan has a $175 base fee and a $25 completion fee. This tells me that the completion fee is in addition to the base fee, since it would be inconceivable for them to be giving away their signature on a completion item. |
bruce Member Posts: 916 From: Fort Mill, SC, USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-25-2009 02:27 PM
I wonder why Gen. Stafford's Crew Completion fees ranges from $75-225? Using a recent point of reference, the General's Astronaut Scholars 2009 Base Fee was $275 for the Basic Signature and the Crew Completions ranged from $350 to $500 (depending on the mission) and included the Base Rate. I hope this gets clarified before the show. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-25-2009 03:43 PM
quote: Originally posted by bruce: I wonder why Gen. Stafford's Crew Completion fees ranges from $75-225?
If the completion fees listed are indeed the additional amount one has to pay above the the normal base fee, then the $75-225 completion charge makes sense:$275 base + $75 completion = $350 $275 base + $225 completion = $500 |
bruce Member Posts: 916 From: Fort Mill, SC, USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-25-2009 08:15 PM
You're probably right, as this directly cooresponds to the ASF Scholars Fee schedule. However, if the General is going to have such a complicated fee schedule, I feel it would be a good idea to go ahead and list the individual flights and their corresponding completion fees, just like the ASF Scholars Fee schedule did [i.e. Gemini VI or IX $$$, Apollo 10 $$$, ASTP (US Crew Only) $$$ and ASTP (Joint Crew Only) $$$]. Clarity before the show increases budget planning and spending efficiency for all concerned. |
AJ Member Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 09-26-2009 12:31 PM
I think the list is confusing, because otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. For example, I think the fee listing for Charlie Duke is either wrong, crazy, or listed differently than the others. I would think that that $125 for an inscription is the TOTAL, not an additional fee. But then the crew completion is $100, which makes sense as an add-on. But seriously?? $200 for Charlie? I love the man, but that's nuts. Does it make sense to anyone? |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-26-2009 01:42 PM
I think they may have mixed the fees up. I think for some like Duke they have added the inscription fee to the base. For Alan Bean they have listed the fees separate.
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johnraiders Member Posts: 78 From: Cobham, UK Registered: Sep 2009
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posted 09-26-2009 04:17 PM
I've just been reading that some don't sign stamped first day covers any more. Do you know if Worden and Scott are okay at doing this? Long way to go if they don't! |
SpaceSteve Member Posts: 428 From: San Antonio TX, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 09-26-2009 05:41 PM
Both Al Worden and Dave Scott signed covers for me at the UACC San Antonio event a few years ago. |
johnraiders Member Posts: 78 From: Cobham, UK Registered: Sep 2009
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posted 09-28-2009 02:00 PM
I see a few more prices are up: Dave Scott $165! This is going to be expensive with the pound dropping. Any idea if they'd sign their books for free?How busy are these things normally, if I just need a few autographs, would I get it all done in first three hours on Saturday? |
jut2y Member Posts: 260 From: worthing west sussex united kingdom Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-28-2009 02:53 PM
quote: Originally posted by bruce: Using a recent point of reference, the General's Astronaut Scholars 2009 Base Fee was $275 for the Basic Signature and the Crew Completions ranged from $350 to $500 (depending on the mission) and included the Base Rate.
I paid £270 sterling for a Gemini completion at Autographica just over two weeks ago so General Staffords completion fees are going to sway on the higher side even for you guys in the US. |
Rob Joyner Member Posts: 1308 From: GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-28-2009 03:42 PM
quote: Originally posted by johnraiders: Dave Scott $165!...Any idea if they'd sign their books for free? ...would I get it all done in first three hours on Saturday?
Actually, Dave Scott's price has been $165 for many years now. Bean, Cernan, Mitchell and Worden have raised their base prices since last year. Since this is an autograph show and not a booksigning I'd expect to have to pay to have a book signed. You should be able to get many autographs within a three hour period. Aldrin and Bean always seem to have the longest lines with a wait time of about fifteen/twenty minutes. If you would rather not get mixed in with the initial morning rush you may want to consider waiting until the astronauts return from lunch. If you time it right you won't have to wait but just a few minutes at most. |
alanh_7 Member Posts: 1252 From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-28-2009 03:55 PM
I cannot remember if Dave Scott was $150 or $165 last year. I seem to have $165 in mind but would have to check the receipts.I pretty much got all of the autographs I was going to get last year in about 3 hours. But then got back to the hotel and realized I did not get Jack Lousma. Out of co-incidence Jack Lousma conducted the bus tour I was on the next day and we had a good conversation. The Sunday of the show I dashed back to the KSC to get his signature. |
johnraiders Member Posts: 78 From: Cobham, UK Registered: Sep 2009
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posted 09-28-2009 05:11 PM
Thanks for all the info. Chances are I can only stay till 12:45, I only need Scott and Worden, but I'm sure others will be tempting. |