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  [Discuss] SpaceX Fram2 polar-orbit mission

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Author Topic:   [Discuss] SpaceX Fram2 polar-orbit mission
Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-12-2024 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please use this topic to discuss SpaceX's first human spaceflight to fly over Earth’s polar regions, the Fram2 mission, with crewmates:
  • Jannicke Mikkelsen, vehicle commander (Norway)
  • Eric Philips, pilot (Australia)
  • Chun Wang, mission commander (Malta)
  • Rabea Rogge, mission spcialist (Germany)

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-12-2024 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Fram2 mission's official website.

Some more about the crew:

  • Jannicke Mikkelsen, vehicle commander
    website | X | Instagram

    Mikkelsen is a Norwegian award-winning film director and cinematographer who specializes in movie productions using next-gen technology. Jannicke has developed a niche working in hazardous environments on film productions in the arctic, underwater, aviation and space.

    Her innovation highlights include working with wildlife pioneer David Attenborough to shoot the first 360 documentaries underwater, film director for the legendary rock band Queen's 3D-360 live music video, Guinness World Record holder of the fastest circumnavigation of Earth via the North and South Pole while live-streaming to 55 million viewers from 43,000 feet, and virtual cinematographer for Netflix's sci-fi thriller
    "Stowaway" starring Anna Kendrick.

    Mikkelsen is the recipient of the first ever European Society of Cinematographers Award for Extraordinary Technical Achievement, in 2017 she was named one of Norway’s most influential woman in tech, and in 2019 one of UK’s most influential women in tech.

  • Eric Philips, pilot
    website | X | Instagram

    Philips has lead expeditions to the four biggest ice caps in the world and has been, with his fellow citizen and companion John Muir, the first Australian to reach both the North and South Pole on skis.

    Born in April 1962, he studied at the University of South Australia from which he received a Bachelor's degree in Education and Outdoor Education. During his young years, he was the director of Outdoor Education on the Timbertop campus of Geelong Grammar School.

    In his early thirties, he rushes headlong into his first big challenges. In 1995, he succeeds in crossing Greenland for the first time, using skis, power kites and a kayak, from Ammassalik to Kangerlussuaq. A film came out of this adventure: "Chasing the Midnight Sun" which was awarded the Emmy Award. A few years later, he used his experience to cross the Patagonian ice cap; he also crossed the Spitzberg cap (2008), the Icelandic glaciers (2003) as well as the Ellesmere Island glaciers (1992).

    In 1996-97, Philips worked as a field education officer at the Mawson Australian station (Antarctica) for the Australian Antarctic Division.

  • Chun Wang, mission commander
    X | YouTube

    Wan is the co-founder and administrator at F2Pool and founder of stake.fish, one of the largest validators of cryptocurrency.

    He is currently halfway through visiting every country/territory in the world.

  • Rabea Rogge, mission specialist
    website | X

    Rogge is a PhD candidate in the Department of Marine Technology at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology. Her doctorate thesis is in data-driven navigation, guidance and control for autonomous surface vehicles in harsh conditions.

    She previously received a Masters of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and Information Technology from ETH Zurich in Switzerland.

    Fascinated by extreme environments, she has studied them to understand the limits of our world — and to push beyond them, whether that is space by taking the technology lead of a satellite mission, the ocean by taking direct action for marine conservation at sea or the Arctic by preparing for a Greenland crossing in 2025.

issman1
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posted 08-12-2024 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wasn't NASA space shuttle mission STS-36 the first and (thus far) only polar orbital manned spaceflight? Of course it being a U.S. military sponsored mission nobody ever got to see any live video of the polar ice caps.

Don't misunderstand me this is a fascinating Crew Dragon mission — which I shall follow with great interest — and I have nothing but admiration for both the crew and SpaceX.

So will Fram2 utilise the same profile as STS-36: roll 57 degrees northeast then dog-leg into a 62 degree inclination low earth orbit. Or will Falcon 9 use SpaceX's proven southern polar corridor? In which case what might be the splashdown location in the event of a launch abort?

NukeGuy
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posted 08-12-2024 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NukeGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the difference between a “Vehicle Commander” and a “Mission Commander” and why does no one on the crew have any air/space vehicle piloting experience, even the “Pilot”?

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-12-2024 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SpaceX's Dragon is flown autonomously or by the ground. The only manual piloting there is to be done, and only in the case of a contingency, is when docking and that is not part of the Fram2 mission.

In this case it appears that the "mission commander" is the one underwriting the whole trip and so is in charge of what is to be done during the flight. The vehicle commander (and pilot), by comparison, will be trained on how use the limited on board controls that Dragon has.

quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
Wasn't NASA space shuttle mission STS-36 the first and (thus far) only polar orbital manned spaceflight?
While STS-36 did reach a high inclination, Atlantis did not fly over the polar regions and was at the very edge of what is considered a polar orbit (60 to 90 degrees).

To quote the mission's website:

[Fram2] will launch into a 90 degree circular orbit to the south from Florida, making it the first human spaceflight to fly over Earth's polar regions from low-Earth orbit.

The North and South Poles are invisible to astronauts on the International Space Station, as well as to all previous human spaceflight missions except for the Apollo lunar missions but only from far away. To date, the highest inclination achieved by human spaceflight has been the Soviet Vostok 6 mission, at 65 degrees. This new flight trajectory will unlock new possibilities for human spaceflight.

SkyMan1958
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posted 08-15-2024 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMan1958   Click Here to Email SkyMan1958     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just found out that Chun Wang is a Chinese national in good standing with the PRC leadership.

Given China's spying activities on space technology, is it wise to give Chun Wang access to the complete inner workings of the Dragon capsule?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-15-2024 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chun Wang isn't being trained on the workings of Dragon. He is the mission commander, but only the vehicle commander and pilot are trained on Dragon's controls. (The same is true on Axiom and NASA crewed flights, as I recently confirmed in an interview with Crew-9's Aleksandr Gorbunov of Roscosmos.)

Beyond that, it was SpaceX's decision to do business with Chun. They could have rejected him if they felt it he posed a threat to the company.

Blackarrow
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posted 08-16-2024 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[Fram2] will launch into a 90 degree circular orbit to the south from Florida...
Nice view from Cocoa Beach!

But if they launch towards the end of the year, the crew won't see much of the north polar region. A mission around mid-March would allow both poles to be viewed.

Axman
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posted 08-16-2024 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What! Directly over Cuba?

I know the freedom of space was established in international law decades ago, but airspace is still a national sphere. I thought Vandenberg and the Western Test Range were specifically set up to cope with polar orbiting satellites that Florida could not, due entirely to the issue of atmospheric overflight and potential debris fallout on non-sovereign, populated territory.

What am I missing here?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-16-2024 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fram2 won't be the first polar launch from Florida. SpaceX previously launched an Argentinian satellite into a polar orbit from the Cape Canaveral in August 2020.

Prior to that, the most recent polar orbit launch from Florida was in 1969, prior to Vandenberg being used for such missions.

To avoid flying over land, the missions first arc to the south-southeast and then make a "right turn to fly along the east coast of Florida over Fort Lauderdale and Miami on the way to a polar orbit," as explained by Spaceflight Now.

Blackarrow
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posted 08-16-2024 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still right over Cuba.

Ben
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posted 08-16-2024 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There have been numerous polar orbit launches in the last four years from Florida, including SAOCOM in 2020, several Transporter launches, three OneWeb satellite launches, COSMO-SkyMed-2 and NASA's PACE mission.

Falcon 9 flies a curved and lofty flight path specifically designed to avoid any issues with debris landing on land, according to the FAA and Space Force. By the time it has reached Cuba the altitude and speed make it no longer an issue, combined with autonomous flight safety.

Blackarrow
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posted 08-16-2024 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about an engine explosion shortly after launch, causing multiple engine failures and a field of debris heading south? Is that actually impossible, or is it just so unlikely as to be disregarded?

Ben
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posted 08-16-2024 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First stage flight and drop zones would be Atlantic nearer to Florida (they are likely to return the stage to land as with other ISS missions). Well into second stage by the time it's near Cuba, at a very high altitude and high speed.

This map from a previous polar-orbit launch with a 98-degree inclination shows the debris drop zones that would come into play for the first stage.

Axman
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posted 08-17-2024 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those maps are of absolutely no comfort. Debris from rocket destruction, whether by accident or by range safety officer, are no respecter of tidy theoretical boundaries.

Remember Rufina.

A Thor DM-21 rocket was launched into space carrying two satellites [Transit 3a + Solrad 2] at Cape Canaveral on 30 November 1960. Sometime after the launch, the rocket exploded, and its debris fell on Cuba, killing a cow named Rufina. Fidel Castro called the accident a "cruel attack and violation of Cuba's air space."

Shortly after, about 250 Cubans with several cows demonstrated in front of the US Embassy in Havana. "The Yankees are killing us without mercy," "Eisenhower, you murdered one of my sisters," etc., said the banners of the protestors' cows. Rufina had a state funeral.

Eventually, the Cuban and US governments agreed to settle the damages claim for 2 million USD. The world remembered Rufina as the most expensive cow in history.

Now imagine the outrage if a large chunk of nearly outer space high debris descended and killed a Cuban person, not a cow. Wars have been started over less.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-17-2024 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Spaceflight Now article I linked earlier cited the cow and explained why that incident is no longer a concern of a repeat.

The Thor, unlike the Falcon 9, was not equipped with the ability to fly back or self destruct. Under a nominal launch, SpaceX's first stage won't approach Cuba (or any other land mass) and in the case of an anomaly, the rocket is equipped with an autonomous flight safety system, such that it doesn't require a range safety officer to command a RUD before it comes anywhere near populated areas.

Axman
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posted 08-17-2024 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Robert. I read the article. I understand all of that. But it is implicit (leaving aside any role of RSOs in this particular flight) that everything operates according to plan: it will do this and it won't do that.

However, I maintain that accidents and disasters take no notice of what should and shouldn't occur. (You will also note the article talked of a "notional" safe corridor. And no mention was made of SpaceX's flyback ability going wrong. SpaceX and its rockets is/are not infallible.)

I just don't understand, when there is a perfectly capable and operational facility to hand that guarantees no overflight of densely populated areas, why anyone would risk using a route that cannot avoid overflying densely populated (and non-jurisdictional) areas.

On edit: ...and to expand slightly, because the above makes me sound like some kind of Luddite.

I fully accept that nothing can be made absolutely safe. But. There is an element of risk and reward that needs to be considered. There was widespread condemnation, outrage, and opposition to new-fangled transportation when Huskisson lost his legs and his life at the opening event of the first commercial railway. This year alone more than a hundred people worldwide have lost their lives to falling under a train — and nobody bats an eyelid about it.

I don't think though that we are quite up to the point whereby Cubans will accept death as an inevitable consequence of SpaceX's commercial operations.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-17-2024 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, smarter people than you and me decided the risks were low enough to resume polar orbit launches from Florida. There is little point to debating it now.

Ben
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posted 08-17-2024 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to be clear about one thing, the first stage cannot make it to Cuba, it does not go that far from the Cape. Any questions on the matter would be about the second stage of flight only.

Axman
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posted 08-17-2024 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well that's not quite correct. The Falcon 9 first stage without flyback on a free flight trajectory can quite easily make the ~600km trajectory to Cuba. As demonstrated by both DSCOVER and SES-9 which both flew 600km trajectories of the first stage.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-16-2024 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fram2 update:
We are now targeting NET spring 2025 for launch of Fram2, the first human spaceflight to explore Earth from a polar orbit. The new timing allows us to take advantage of more favorable weather conditions required for a safe launch and return to Earth for human spaceflight missions.

We continue to train and finalize details around the research we will be flying aboard Dragon.

Blackarrow
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posted 10-16-2024 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
...But if they launch towards the end of the year, the crew won't see much of the north polar region. A mission around mid-March would allow both poles to be viewed.

Spring 2025 makes more sense, but is that a case of logistical necessity, or would the ability to view half of both polar regions be part of the equation?

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