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  [Discuss] Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test (Page 4)

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Author Topic:   [Discuss] Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test
Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-04-2024 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
Launch of the ULA (United Launch Alliance) Atlas V rocket and Starliner spacecraft is targeted for 10:52 a.m. EDT Wednesday, June 5 (1452 UTC) from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.

Spaceflyer
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posted 06-05-2024 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spaceflyer   Click Here to Email Spaceflyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great launch experience here from the KSC Press Site a little more than 30 minutes ago!

David C
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posted 06-05-2024 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At last!

issman1
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posted 06-05-2024 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
🙏

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-05-2024 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams were preparing to go to sleep, ground controllers detected three small helium leaks in the Starliner's propulsion system. The crew was advised that a forward plan was in the works that they were to go to bed as scheduled.

Boeing's Brandon Burroughs provided a summary of the situation on NASA TV:

Prior to launch, our team was monitoring a small leak on Starliner's propulsion system. Teams took a closer look at that system before the crew went to sleep. ... They closed all of the helium manifold vavles to collect data on that system and observed two more small leaks, one of those leaks being in port two, one being in port one and one being in top one.

So just to recap and give a little more detail as to what type of helium leak we were tracking prior to launch, and that being in the location of port two. After testing all eight of Starliner's, helium manifolds, we found the leak was isolated to one flange in the spacecraft's 28 RCS thrusters, or reaction control system thrusters, which are used to make small adjustments while on orbit. Even more specifically, [the leak] was on a seal that was very tiny in size, about by the size of the button on a man's dress shirt.

Overnight, we're going to keep the top one and port one closed, and they will open port two. That will give the teams the ability to manage the spacecraft.

We do have confirmation from our engineering support teammates at Boeing that the helium system remains safe for flight. This was not unexpected, and we plan for cases like this. The team will be working to make sure that we're in a good configuration to complete our mission, which is rendezvous and docking with the ISS.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-06-2024 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
Watch live as a crewed Boeing Starliner spacecraft docks to the International Space Station for the first time. Starliner will dock to the forward-facing port of the station's Harmony module.

AstroGraphs
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posted 06-06-2024 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AstroGraphs   Click Here to Email AstroGraphs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sounds like they've worked around their thruster problem, and will proceed with the docking at 12:33 Central. As noted on the NASA Live broadcast, we will not have only one, but two U.S. manned spacecraft docked at the station! That is great news (and progress) for the space program.

brianjbradley
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posted 06-06-2024 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for brianjbradley   Click Here to Email brianjbradley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How long is Starliner docked before undocking and landing? I thought it was a 9-day flight, but heard Wilmore say on docking that they are "looking forward to staying for a few weeks."

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-06-2024 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Starliner is scheduled to spend eight days docked to the station, though NASA said it was prepared for the CFT crew to stay longer if tests needed to be completed or if the weather was an issue for Starliner's return.

Butch has joked a few times in the lead to launch about staying longer. I didn't hear him this time, so I don't know if that was again the same case.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-06-2024 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you were watching the coverage from Mission Control today, you may have spotted Mike Fincke wearing a bright orange tie (and socks). The story behind them from chief flight director Emily Nelson:
The tie was actually presented to him by Butch. He [Fincke] is the backup crew member for Butch and Suni. There is a tradition, as I understand it, in the flight test community where you wear bright orange associated with flight test.

That particular tie is signed by Butch and Suni.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-08-2024 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
Live from the International Space Station: Watch a tour of the Boeing Starliner with NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, the spacecraft's first crew to fly on the spacecraft.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-09-2024 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Starliner will be returning to Earth no earlier than Tuesday, June 18.

The additional time in orbit will allow the station crew to perform a spacewalk on Thursday (June 13), while engineers complete Starliner systems checkouts.

SpaceAngel
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posted 06-10-2024 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAngel   Click Here to Email SpaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is the Starliner targeted to land at White Sands, NM?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-10-2024 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
White Sands is the primary landing site, but a decision where Starliner will land will be made closer to the date based on local conditions.

NASA issued an update today on the helium leaks and RCS thruster issues:

One of Starliner’s aft-facing reaction control system (RCS) thrusters, capable of about 85 pounds of thrust, remains de-selected as teams continue to evaluate its performance. Ground teams plan to fire all 28 RCS thrusters after undocking to collect additional data signatures on the service module thrusters before the hardware is expended. As part of normal operations, the service module separates from crew module on return, so NASA and Boeing will gather as much data as possible to aid in system assessments.

Teams currently are assessing what impacts, if any, five small leaks in the service module helium manifolds would have on the remainder of the mission. Engineers evaluated the helium supply based on current leak rates and determined that Starliner has plenty of margin to support the return trip from station. Only seven hours of free-flight time is needed to perform a normal end of mission, and Starliner currently has enough helium left in its tanks to support 70 hours of free flight activity following undocking. While Starliner is docked, all the manifolds are closed per normal mission operations preventing helium loss from the tanks.

Engineers also are evaluating an RCS oxidizer isolation valve in the service module that is not properly closed. Ground teams performed a successful propulsion system valve checkout on Sunday. All other oxidizer and fuel valves within the service module were cycled normally. The suspect oxidizer isolation valve was not cycled in the recent checkout. It will remain commanded closed for the remainder of the mission while ground teams continue to evaluate its data signatures. The crew module propulsion valves, which are part of an independent system that steers the capsule in the last phase of flight before landing, also were successfully cycled, and all those valves are performing as designed.

Mission managers are continuing to work through the return plan, which includes assessments of flight rationale, fault tolerance, and potential operational mitigations for the remainder of the flight.

OLDIE
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posted 06-11-2024 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OLDIE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before seeing the live tour of Starliner, I hadn't realised just how much instrumentation and other stuff there was crammed inside. WOW!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-11-2024 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe Boeing said that as this is a test flight and with only two crewmembers aboard, Starliner flew more equipment then will be on operational missions.

In other news, Suni Williams posted on X today:

Best week ever! So happy to be back in space and on the International Space Station (ISS). The ride was amazing, and being here with friends is just awesome. Incredible to see three different human-rated spacecraft docked to the ISS. Great to be part of all that!

Axman
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posted 06-14-2024 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We have an incredible opportunity to spend more time at station and perform more tests which provides invaluable data unique to our position," said Mark Nappi, vice president and program manager, Commercial Crew Program, Boeing.
Isn't that just "spin"? If Boeing had wanted more time at station, why wasn't that planned in?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-14-2024 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whether spin or not, the extension was always a possibility. Eight days at the space station was the nominal flight, but staying longer, either for weather or mission needs, was in the plan as discussed by managers at press briefings prior to the launch.

astro-nut
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posted 06-14-2024 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astro-nut   Click Here to Email astro-nut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am so happy to see the CFT-100 Starliner finally fly. I think this is an important spaceflight for NASA and Boeing. This flight was and is deeply needed for the Commercial Crew Program.

Seeing both SpaceX and Boeing at the ISS is amazing!

Also, glad to see the mission get extended to perform more tests and operations.

Yes, this is a test flight and maybe the flight could be extended to a month long mission to gather more information and data for the following Starliner flights? At one point there was talk of Starliner being at the ISS for six months on its first test flight with astronauts Ferguson, Boe and Mann. I will have to dig through my box of notes to find the exact date. I think it was in 2019 or 2020?

Once again, so happy for this spaceflight!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-15-2024 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From astronaut Matthew Dominick on the International Space Station (via X):
We have been looking at aurora out the cupola windows a lot lately. Starliner was doing some testing today so we decided to check it out from the Dragon windows. Timing was great for the aurora to line up nicely with Starliner's service module thrusters.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-18-2024 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Landing is now targeted for June 26 at about 4:51 a.m. EDT (0851 GMT or 2:51 a.m. local) at White Sands Space Harbor in New Mexico. The backup date is July 2 at Willcox Playa in Arizona.

SpaceAholic
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posted 06-18-2024 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there is a press to the alternate, decision may require revisit - seasonal monsoon gets a vote, which tends to make the Playa "squishy".

Headshot
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posted 06-22-2024 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those cSers in their 70s, be honest. Every time Boeing and NASA delay Starliner's return, how many haven't thought about poor old Charlie from the Kingston Trio's Ballad of the MTA?

Axman
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posted 06-22-2024 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAholic:
...which tends to make the Playa "squishy".
I think I'd vote for squishy over iron-hard rocky every time.

SpaceAholic
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posted 06-22-2024 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Squishy as in vehicles getting trapped in muck... not good for the recovery team having to drive in/out of there, as well as having to extricate the capsule.

SpaceAngel
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posted 06-26-2024 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAngel   Click Here to Email SpaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When is the next available landing date the Boeing Starliner? They can't remain in space for a prolonged time...

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-26-2024 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A new landing date has yet to be announced, though at last update, it was expected to be no earlier than July 4.

For this mission, Starliner is limited to spending 45 days docked to the space station. According to NASA, the limit is due to the spacecraft's battery configuration. The Starliner operational missions will fly with a different set of batteries.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-28-2024 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boeing and NASA are planning to test fire a Starliner RCS thruster at White Sands Missile Range to try to replicate what they saw during the thruster fires in space. They are intending to perform that test and analyze the results before undocking and bringing the CFT crew home.

As such, no date has been set yet for the Starliner's return from the space station.

At the same time, NASA and Boeing stressed that headlines suggesting Starliner is "stuck" or "stranded" at the station are incorrect. If an emergency arises or if the program decides differently than they are thinking now, Starliner is cleared to come home.

The program is taking its time because they can. The vehicle is stable and healthy at the station. The crew is serving a useful purpose in orbit and is happy to stay. And the program has an opportunity to study the vehicle while the service module is still accessible should the ground test lead to a desire for more tests in space.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-10-2024 06:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
Hear from NASA's Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, live from the International Space Station.

The Earth to space news conference will begin at 11 a.m. EDT on Wednesday (July 10).

Axman
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posted 07-17-2024 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What happens to Starliner if its crew comes down by other means: does it just get jettisoned to be burnt up in the atmosphere into the Pacific satellite graveyard, or a fully computer unmanned automated landing at the original intended land coordinates attempted?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-17-2024 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The answer to your question depends on why Boeing and NASA would decide to remove Butch and Suni from the return trip.

At this point, Starliner is safe to bring the crew home, nominally or in an emergency, so if nothing about the ship's status changed and the crew was removed (for some reason that I can't imagine), there would be no reason not to land the ship autonomously, as it has been designed to do and has done twice before (once with this very same vehicle).

If the reason for removing the crew is that the ship's condition has worsened to the point that it is not safe for them to return to Earth (which, just to stress, has not happened), then Boeing and NASA would have to assess the impact that degradation has on conducting an autonomous return. There is not enough information to say what they would decide based simply on the crew not being aboard.

Blackarrow
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posted 07-20-2024 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
...For this mission, Starliner is limited to spending 45 days docked to the space station.
That 45-day period docked to the space station expires on Sunday 21st July. I get it that Starliner has been deemed safe for return (emergency or otherwise) and that tests of the service module could only be conducted in orbit before re-entry, but unless that 45-day battery limit is purely arbitrary, as opposed to safety-based, then surely any delay in a return beyond the 45th day docked to ISS will necessarily involve an incremental increase in risk, day by day?

And if it's safe to return in Starliner, why create an additional risk-factor by delaying beyond the 45 day limit?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-20-2024 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soon after arriving at the space station, NASA approved an extended stay of up to 90 days after assessing the health of Starliner's lithium ion batteries.

Headshot
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posted 07-20-2024 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a note in the current issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology that "...engineers are homing in on the Starliner service module so-called doghouse assemblies as potential sources of excess heat — a condition that is believed to have sidelined five thrusters temporarily."

Axman
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posted 07-21-2024 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...and in plain English, what does that mean exactly?

Headshot
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posted 07-22-2024 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My guess is that thruster usage heats up the thruster themselves and this heat is not being radiated into space properly. The heat builds up as the thrusters keep firing until it becomes excessive enough to cause issues with the thruster valves. I am sure Boeing will eventually explain it all to us.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-24-2024 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA and Boeing will host a news conference with mission leadership at 11:30 a.m. EDT on Thursday (July 25), to provide the latest status of the Crew Flight Test.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-25-2024 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Headshot:
I am sure Boeing will eventually explain it all to us.
Here is what Steve Stich, NASA's manager for commercial crew, said today:
We understand now much better the integrated effect between how the guidance navigation control system, the flight control system during rendezvous, is commanding the thrusters to fire, and then what the result of those thruster firings are with the thrusters being in these doghouses.

The doghouse has a lot of insulation on it. It's designed to protect the thrusters from cold temperatures while we're docked. But I think we're now seeing an integrated effect that we maybe didn't uncover on the ground during some of the early testing with Starliner, that if you command too many pulses on a thruster, and have those thrusters point at the sun, like we did for the eight hours that the crew was asleep, and have some OMAC [orbital maneuvering and attitude control] firings that we can have some cross talk in the thermal and have the temperatures increase, and so that's where we see the thruster degradation.

Stich went on to say that the fix for the next flight could be in altering the thruster, altering the doghouse or maybe just changing the way they fly the vehicle, reducing the number of successive firings.

SpaceAholic
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posted 07-26-2024 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boeing is eyeing a potential return on 6 or 7 August (Willcox Playa / White Sands respectively)

Axman
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posted 07-27-2024 07:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Axman   Click Here to Email Axman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doghouse!? OK, I'm quite prepared to look like a nincompoop, but is this an Americanism I've never heard of, or is this a widespread term used throughout the English speaking nations?

As far as I know doghouse means just two things to me:

  1. a kennel - where a dog lives.
  2. a state of abject misery brought on by inappropriate lifestyle choices, mainly by men in the 1950's... i.e "he's in the doghouse (cartoon showing hungover man with wife berating him)."
Quite clearly there is a third meaning in use here - can someone please enlighten me?


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