Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-13-2024 06:28 AM
SpaceX update
The Starship team is go for prop load, and weather is looking ideal for today's flight test!
Liftoff is currently targeted for 7:25 a.m. CT.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-13-2024 08:53 AM
I had about as much faith in Mechazilla working on the first try as I did the sky crane successfully landing Curiosity on Mars. I have to start putting more trust in the engineers.
That was amazing.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-13-2024 09:41 AM
Robert, my thoughts pretty much exactly! But the recent suggestion that the Flight 4 booster touched down in the Gulf with half-a-centimetre accuracy had left me thinking they might actually get it right. During the "catch" the viewing angle made it look like the booster had struck the tower and I gritted my teeth, expecting an explosion...an orange mushroom...a wrecked launch-tower... But no! It bloody worked! Magnificant! I almost typed "unbelievable" but I think we can now start to believe.
ejectr Member
Posts: 2024 From: Killingly, CT Registered: Mar 2002
posted 10-13-2024 10:54 AM
Just another day for the SpaceX group. It won't be the last "first" we see from them. Mars...look out!
issman1 Member
Posts: 1143 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 10-13-2024 11:30 AM
Good catch, but I was surprised SpaceX hadn't perfected the thermal protection system on Starship. Could it have caused the explosion at splashdown?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-13-2024 11:39 AM
Starship isn't designed to land in the water, so whatever set off the explosion really is not a concern for the thermal protection system or the vehicle in general. There was likely residual propellant on board that caught fire, leading to the RUD.
Headshot Member
Posts: 1350 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 10-13-2024 03:52 PM
I literally could not believe my eyes. Today was a great day for SpaceX, no doubt about it. But merely catching a Super Heavy booster is only a single milestone. They need to repeat this feat again and again.
The real prize, however, will be when SpaceX starts REUSING Super Heavy boosters. That will be something!
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-13-2024 08:54 PM
After today, that day is much closer.
David Carey Member
Posts: 1051 From: Registered: Mar 2009
posted 10-13-2024 11:57 PM
Another jaw-dropping feat by SpaceX. Kudos to the entire team!
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-15-2024 12:52 PM
Is there any reason why SpaceX can't land future Starships on a pad at Boca Chica, rather than in the "chopsticks"? The booster can't land, but we've previously seen the Starship touching down on landing legs.
While the booster catch was spectacularly successful, it only has to fail once to make a mess of the launch-pad. Is there any reason why SpaceX couldn't build a fixed landing-support tower, with chopsticks, serving solely to support landings? I realise that's for SpaceX to know and for us to find out, but has such a thing ever been publicly considered?
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 3121 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 10-15-2024 01:11 PM
I would think that the long range plan is to make it so reusable that it is grabbed by the chopsticks and then re-stacks on the pad for a quick turn around.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-15-2024 01:56 PM
Fred has it correct. The intention (as best I understand it) is to get to the point where Super Heavy is caught in the air, lowered back onto the launch pedestal and inspected. Then Starship returns from space and is also caught by the chopsticks and lowered/mounted atop Super Heavy.
After the spacecraft is inspected, the two stages are then refueled and fly again, perhaps within the span of one day.
Something like this unofficial, three-year-old animation:
Headshot Member
Posts: 1350 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 10-15-2024 02:35 PM
Won't SpaceX have to replace that interstage ring between Super Heavy and Starship? You know, the ring that allows them to hot-fire Starship. I thought that I saw it fall free after staging during Flight 5.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-15-2024 03:09 PM
The current expendable interstage will be replaced with an integrated version as the vehicle advances beyond test flights. The intention is to have a 100-percent reusable vehicle.
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1949 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 10-15-2024 04:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: The booster can't land, but we've previously seen the Starship touching down on landing legs.
The booster has never had landing gear. The primary reason for the tower catch is to save mass from not having landing gear. It would have to be massive to stabilize the tall vehicle for landing.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-16-2024 09:39 AM
I wasn't referring to the booster, I was referring to Starship, which has landed on landing legs in the early tests, and must use landing legs on the HLS version. The booster obviously has to be caught, but Starship could land on a concrete landing-pad to avoid damage to the launch facilities.
I understand SpaceX's long-term intention to catch both stages, re-stack and re-launch very quickly. After what we've just seen, it would be foolish to rule that out, but in trying to assess timescales, how quickly can SpaceX refurbish and re-fly a Falcon 9 first stage? I suspect there's more to it than a quick check of the engine bells. Speaking of engine bells, if the Flight 5 booster sustained warping to some engine bells, that sounds like partial or total engine replacement, all of which takes time. I'm hoping the Raptor 3 will be more robust and more resistant to such damage.
As things stand, SpaceX have to do an unmanned demonstration HLS landing before the Artemis 3 landing with astronauts. They've previously referred to a need for 10 refuelling flights for a lunar mission. That suggests 11 launches for the demo flight and 11 for Artemis 3. That's a lot of flights in the next 2 years, even without warped engine bells.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-16-2024 09:45 AM
Yes, Starship could land on a pad and maybe SpaceX will do that first to demonstrate just the ability to recover it intact. The company has yet to say.
Musk has said a couple of years ago that the landing gear for the HLS version of Starship would differ from the landing/recovery approach on Earth, but has not shared further details nor released any info about when HLS testing might begin.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-16-2024 10:34 AM
Of course, to land at Boca Chica (whichever way) requires them to put Starship into orbit. That would then require a retrofire by at least one vacuum engine, which they haven't done yet, so I'm assuming they will need at least one more test in near-orbit before a Starship returns to site. Of course, they could try to land on a drone-ship in the Indian Ocean, but the waves in mid-ocean might make that tricky.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 1399 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 10-16-2024 09:55 PM
When Starship flies as the HLS machine, its legs are apt to be quite a bit different than the legs that would be used for landing on Earth. Obviously the biggest difference would be that the Moon's gravity is only 1/6 that of Earth's, so the legs (and landing architecture) would not need to be nearly as heavy or robust as if the legs were to be used on the Earth.
Second, like the LM, the legs would only be used in vacuum, so that might allow them to be placed on the Starship in a way that would be totally untenable for a vehicle that is landing through the Earth's atmosphere.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-17-2024 09:28 AM
Agreed, but I again point out that we have already seen internal footage of Starship deploying landing legs to land back on Earth during those early test-flights. SpaceX could choose to land Starship on a convenient flat landing-site, or in the "chopsticks." There is no such choice with the booster, but with Starship there is an option which doesn't risk the launch-pad.
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1949 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 10-17-2024 10:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: I understand SpaceX's long-term intention to catch both stages, re-stack and re-launch very quickly.
Not really. Landing will be the primary method.
SpaceX needs to recover, inspect and then modify both before they can be fully reusable. The Starship still needs mods based on telemetry and video before it commits to a launch site landing.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-18-2024 05:41 PM
Newly-released video captured by a nearby floating buoy (posted on X) shows that Starship made a "highly accurate" landing in the Indian Ocean on Flight 5. Elon Musk confirms the plan is for Starship to be caught by the chopsticks as well.
Starship achieved a precise, soft landing in the ocean, paving the way for return to launch site and being caught by the tower arms, like the booster.
Full and rapid reusability improves the cost of access to orbit and beyond by more than 10,000 percent.
It is the fundamental technology breakthrough needed to make life multiplanetary and for us to become a true spacefaring civilization.
More from Musk about the post-flight condition of Super Heavy:
A few outer engine nozzles are warped from heating and some other minor issues, but these are easily addressed.
Starship is designed to achieve reflight of its rocket booster ultimately within an hour after liftoff. The booster returns within about 5 minutes, so the remaining time is reloading propellant and placing a ship on top of the booster.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
Flight 6 Super Heavy booster moved to the Starbase pad for testing. The move comes just one week after returning the first booster caught following launch.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-28-2024 11:35 AM
Super Heavy came within a second of aborting the "catch" landing attempt, according to audio posted online, apparently inadvertently, by Elon Musk, SpaceNews reports.
Musk posted a three-minute video Oct. 25 on X, the social media network he also owns, showing action from a video game that he is playing. The audio, though, is not from the video game but of several people discussing the Starship Flight 5 test flight Oct. 13. ...
In the audio, one person, not identified, described an issue with the Super Heavy landing burn where a "misconfigured" parameter meant that spin pressure, presuming in the Raptor engines in the booster, did not increase as expected.
"We were one second away from that tripping and telling the rocket to abort and try to crash into the ground next to the tower," that person said. That scenario would "erroneously tell a healthy rocket to not try that catch."
"We had a whole bunch of new aborts and commit criteria that we tried to doublecheck really well, but, I mean, I think our concern was well-placed, and one of these came very close to biting us," the person continued.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3772 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-29-2024 06:11 PM
Far better than saying: "We came within one second of success. So near, yet so far!"
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-06-2024 12:51 PM
The sixth flight test of Starship is targeted to launch as early as Monday, Nov. 18. The 30-minute launch window will open at 4:00 p.m. CT.
A live webcast of the flight test will begin about 30 minutes before liftoff, which you can watch here and on X @SpaceX.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-06-2024 02:54 PM
SpaceX video
Starship’s fifth flight test lifted off on October 13, 2024, with our most ambitious test objectives yet as we work to demonstrate techniques fundamental to Starship and Super Heavy’s fully and rapidly reusable design.
And on our first try, Mechazilla caught the booster.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 53481 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-12-2024 05:37 PM
The Starship that will fly on the sixth test flight has a banana for scale (the banana in the banana's hand is actual size).
posted 10-13-2024 06:28 AM
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