Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-25-2015 12:17 PM
Please use this topic to discuss the seventh of SpaceX's contracted Dragon cargo flights to the International Space Station under NASA's Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) Program.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-25-2015 12:20 PM
NASA update
90 Percent 'Go' Forecast for CRS-7
Weather forecasters from the U.S. Air Force 45th Weather Squadron are predicting a 90 percent chance of favorable weather at the scheduled time for launch of SpaceX CRS-7. Liftoff of the Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft is targeted for 10:21 a.m. EDT (1421 GMT) on Sunday, June 28, from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.
Launch coverage on NASA Television will begin at 9 a.m. EDT. A Sunday launch will result in the Dragon spacecraft arriving at the space station on Tuesday, June 30. Expedition 44 flight engineer Scott Kelly will use the station's Canadarm2 robotic arm to reach out and capture Dragon at about 7 a.m. EDT. Station commander Gennady Padalka will support Kelly as they operate from the station's cupola.
NASA TV coverage of rendezvous and grapple of Dragon will begin at 5:30 a.m. EDT. Coverage of Dragon's installation to the Earth-facing port of the Harmony module will begin at 8:30 a.m. EDT.
If the launch does not occur on Sunday, the next launch opportunity would be at 9:58 a.m. EDT on Monday, June 29, resulting in a grapple and berthing on Thursday, July 2.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-28-2015 07:10 AM
NASA update
The SpaceX launch team is filling the propellant tanks of the Falcon 9 with refined kerosene called RP-1 and liquid oxygen. The Falcon 9's Merlin 1D engines mix the propellants together at launch to generate about 1.3 million pounds of thrust.
The RP-1 loading began at 6:33 a.m. EDT and the liquid oxygen loading started at 6:58 a.m. Everything is on track for a liftoff on time at 10:21 a.m.
Robonaut Member
Posts: 259 From: Solihull, West Mids, England Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-28-2015 09:38 AM
Another launch failure. Too early to say what happened. This is much too regular at present.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-28-2015 09:40 AM
I fear that this is now the end for ISS
Robonaut Member
Posts: 259 From: Solihull, West Mids, England Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-28-2015 09:44 AM
I think it is a bit premature to say it is the end for ISS. The next Progress is due to launch on 3 July 2015.
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2476 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 06-28-2015 09:44 AM
Looks like it was still under first stage power and started breaking up at about 2 minutes and 20 seconds into flight.
Looks like at this point a news conference is at 12:30 p.m. EDT.
SpaceAngel Member
Posts: 307 From: Maryland Registered: May 2010
posted 06-28-2015 10:02 AM
Second time that a commercial re-supply mission to the ISS goes catastrophically wrong; what is going on?!
Robonaut Member
Posts: 259 From: Solihull, West Mids, England Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-28-2015 10:06 AM
'Rocket Science'. I think is the simple answer. A reminder that going into space is not easy.
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2476 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 06-28-2015 10:32 AM
Looking at the video again, it almost looks like a second stage problem/explosion with range safety destroying the vehicle. This is all speculation at this time.
By the way, it is a good thing we don't shut down interstate trucking every time there is failure of some trucks or we would all go hungry. Let them work the issue, find the issue, correct it and move on.
Robonaut Member
Posts: 259 From: Solihull, West Mids, England Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-28-2015 12:06 PM
NASA TV currently broadcasting a live press briefing.
onesmallstep Member
Posts: 1310 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
posted 06-28-2015 12:18 PM
Wow Cygnus in October 2014, Progress in April and now Dragon. Hopefully three times is not the charm and the next Progress resupply is a success. Now they will just have to buckle down and find the source of the failure. The success of Dragon crew launches depends on the outcome.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-28-2015 12:30 PM
For reference, here is the video of the break up:
dabolton Member
Posts: 419 From: Seneca, IL, US Registered: Jan 2009
posted 06-28-2015 01:06 PM
The lack of a fireball may indicate that one of the combustible fuel tanks had fully vented by the point of range destruction.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-28-2015 01:14 PM
It may also just be a factor of the lack of atmosphere. The breakup occurred at 139 seconds into flight; first stage separation occurs at 159 seconds at an altitude of 50 miles (80 kilometers).
There was no audible sound from the failure.
COR482932 Member
Posts: 212 From: Cork, Ireland Registered: Mar 2012
posted 06-28-2015 05:51 PM
What was the reaction of the people on the ground Robert? I imagine there were a lot more people watching this time, not only in the press site but on the beaches etc.
Was there as much panic as there was at Wallops during the explosion of the Antares, or was it considered safe seeing as it happened over two minutes into the flight? Thanks!
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-28-2015 07:38 PM
There was no panic, no one running for the buses — in fact, the NASA Social group standing besides the press actually cheered when it exploded (I believe they thought it was stage separation).
It wasn't anything like Antares, which blew up in a giant fireball directly in front of us just a few miles away. The Falcon 9 was 30 miles high and hundreds of miles downrange when it broke apart.
I had already put down my camera but was drawn back to take shots again after a second contrail formed in the Falcon's wake. It was then I saw the puff of smoke and what looked like pieces falling away from the craft.
Then I noticed it was silent. It wasn't the lack of an explosion but the lack of commentary: NASA's George Diller and the SpaceX control room loop had gone silent. And then Diller confirmed it, "And we appear to have had a launch vehicle failure..."
On edit: Here's a video taken by a camera set up beside mine. You can hear my camera shutter clicking away, and me asking, "What was that?" at the first sign of the break up.
OV3Discovery Member
Posts: 100 From: Registered: Mar 2015
posted 06-28-2015 09:31 PM
A good launch record that Falcon 9 had, too bad it got wreaked with CRS-7 launch. Is the cargo and launch vehicle insured?
OV-105 Member
Posts: 816 From: Ridgecrest, CA Registered: Sep 2000
posted 06-28-2015 11:55 PM
I know what caused this and I am ashamed too. I was taking my Mom to get a new cell phone today and had NASA TV on to watch the launch. It was the final seconds of the count and she walked in and jokingly said "Oh are they going to blow another one up?" Then lift off she walked out came back into the room and no more vehicle a few seconds later. I had to tell, with power comes great responsibility.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 02:53 AM
Not to make light of what was a bad day for SpaceX, but I have a similar story...
I wasn't intending to be at this launch; I only flew to Florida to cover the opening of the "Forever Remembered" exhibit and since the launch was the next day, stuck around. As such, I told a few friends in the press corps the night before and morning of, "I'm not going to write up this launch. The only reasons I would write an article would be (a) the first stage landed on the drone ship, or (b) the vehicle explodes."
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 02:56 AM
45th Space Wing release
Launch anomaly debris notice: All beaches north of Cape Canaveral Air Force Station
After a successful liftoff from the Eastern Range, 45th Space Wing, SpaceX and NASA officials experienced an anomaly of the Falcon 9 CRS-7 mission June 28 at approximately 148 seconds into flight over the Atlantic Ocean.
Range officials are currently evaluating the data to determine the exact cause of the anomaly and additional information will be released as it becomes available.
The anomaly occurred over the Atlantic Ocean and as a result of tide movement over the next several hours, debris may begin washing ashore. If you spot debris in the water or see it washed up anywhere along the Eastern Florida shore report it to either NASA's debris reporting hotline at 321-867-2121 or Patrick Air Force Base at 321-494-7001 or contact your nearest local law enforcement official.
Do not attempt to pick it up or make cell phone calls near it. Gather all information that clearly identifies its location of the debris but only do so after leaving the area. Some of the debris may be toxic or explosive in nature and may be potentially hazardous, which is why it needs to be reported to and handled by trained professionals. Additionally, please keep in mind that all debris is considered part of an official investigation.
The exact cause of today's anomaly is currently under investigation.
Update: For debris reports: call 866-392-0035 or email recovery@spacex.com.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 03:24 AM
Elon Musk just provided an update on Twitter:
Cause still unknown after several thousand engineering-hours of review. Now parsing data with a hex editor to recover final milliseconds.
oly Member
Posts: 905 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
posted 06-29-2015 04:53 AM
If the Dragon did in fact separate during that break up, would it not be possible to deploy the parachutes and effect a recovery?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 07:58 AM
That's a question that's been raised a lot, both online and at the press site. It is not clear how the Dragon's parachute deployment system works and whether it needs to be enabled or is always active (one would assume the earlier to avoid an accidental deployment during ascent).
That being said, had the parachutes deployed, I think we would have heard about it by now by SpaceX or directly by Musk, as that would quite the development.
SpaceDust Member
Posts: 115 From: Louisville, Ky USA Registered: Mar 2006
posted 06-29-2015 09:41 AM
I normally don't comment on things like this and maybe I shouldn't, but something was said yesterday in the press conference that got my goat. A reporter asked of Gwynne Shortwell, President and COO of SpaceX, how much did this launch cost? Shortwell basically said SpaceX normally doesn't respond to question like that. WAIT! My tax dollars paid for this mission and you're not going to tell me what I nor any other taxpayer lost? Does SpaceX realize where their revenue is coming from? Is this the new space program we are investing in where we don't know where our money is going or how?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 09:46 AM
The taxpayer portion of SpaceX's funding is published; NASA awarded SpaceX a $1.6 billion contract for 12 resupply missions, of which this was the seventh. What Shotwell was referring to was the total cost, which includes the funds SpaceX itself has invested in the Falcon 9 and Dragon.
As for the payload aboard Dragon, that is a question for NASA.
SpaceDust Member
Posts: 115 From: Louisville, Ky USA Registered: Mar 2006
posted 06-29-2015 10:16 AM
It is now obvious that we’re not going to get 12 resupply missions from SpaceX since one is now in the Atlantic. Does SpaceX have to provide one to make up for the one that's lost? I guess this would apply for Orbital Sciences also since their contract is probably written the same way.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 10:53 AM
Orbital is compensating for the loss of its Orb-3 mission by flying the equivalent of five flights of cargo on four missions.
Whether SpaceX will (or can) do the same, or whether they will add a replacement flight, is still be seen.
Separate from the losses, NASA ordered three more resupply flights from SpaceX and one from Orbital earlier this year (above and beyond SpaceX's original 12 and Orbital's original eight).
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1463 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 06-29-2015 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by SpaceDust: Is this the new space program we are investing in where we don't know where our money is going or how?
No, the mission costs are SpaceX propriety infomation. What NASA paid is public info.
mjanovec Member
Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
posted 06-30-2015 12:25 AM
Reviewing the video of the mishap more closely, it appears you can see the Dragon capsule separate, seemingly intact, from the Falcon 9. As the capsule tumbles away from the launch vehicle, you can see the gumdrop side view of the capsule in some frames and see the circular end view in other frames.
Considering the aerodynamic forces the capsule is designed to withstand, I wouldn't be surprised if it remained intact all the way until ocean impact, similar to what happened with Challenger's crew cabin.
oly Member
Posts: 905 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
posted 06-30-2015 03:09 AM
So with the downrange distance, velocity and inertia of the Dragon and rocket body, what would the probable depth of the Atlantic that any salvage operation would be required to work in?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-30-2015 05:16 AM
Based on SpaceX's statements, they are only looking for debris that is floating or that washes up on shore.
quote:Originally posted by mjanovec: Considering the aerodynamic forces the capsule is designed to withstand, I wouldn't be surprised if it remained intact all the way until ocean impact...
This has pretty much already been confirmed by SpaceX, as they continued to receive telemetry from Dragon until just before it reached the ocean.
OV3Discovery Member
Posts: 100 From: Registered: Mar 2015
posted 06-30-2015 05:52 AM
I was looking through the footage posted above, and after the break up, these 2 objects can be seen falling down. They were moving in an irregular manner unlike (flexing and flapping as they fell down) the other debris. I was wondering whether these are parts of the parachute.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-30-2015 06:13 AM
As the telemetry suggests Dragon separated intact before the Falcon 9 fully broke apart, the debris you see tumbling after the explosion could not be the parachutes.
OV3Discovery Member
Posts: 100 From: Registered: Mar 2015
posted 06-30-2015 07:52 AM
Is it known what caused the separation of Dragon from Falcon 9 before it (F9) broke apart?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-30-2015 08:00 AM
Nothing is known at this point; or at least nothing known has been released publicly yet. The speculation is that the force of the second stage exploding blew the Dragon free.
mjanovec Member
Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
posted 06-30-2015 11:27 AM
I don't think the Dragon separated before the Falcon 9 started to break apart. It appears the second stage disintegrated first, causing Dragon to fall freely from the Falcon 9. The first stage appears to continue in flight for a short time before it too disintegrated.
It also appears there was no explosion, but rather a structural failure of the second stage that caused the breakup. As the Falcon had just passed through the portion of the flight with the maximum dynamic pressure, this was the part of the flight where one would expect a structural failure to occur.
Of course, this is largely speculation on my part from viewing the video.
jasonelam Member
Posts: 691 From: Monticello, KY USA Registered: Mar 2007
posted 06-30-2015 02:14 PM
The secondary debris could have been the trunk or what was left of it once the overpressure hit it.
OV3Discovery Member
Posts: 100 From: Registered: Mar 2015
posted 06-30-2015 02:52 PM
After Dragon broke free from the launch vehicle the range safety officer must have terminated the flight.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-30-2015 02:55 PM
The range safety officer did not act to terminate the flight until well after the vehicle had already disintegrated.
The Air Force's Eastern Range did send commands to destroy the Falcon 9 rocket about 70 seconds after it experienced an upper-stage malfunction, SpaceX officials confirmed. That action had no impact on the rocket's disintegration more than two minutes after a 10:21 a.m. launch.
According to Senator Nelson, who was briefed by both NASA and SpaceX, the RSO waited as long as he did because the vehicle was not in the position to harm anyone or any property. The command was sent, but only as a matter of course.
posted 06-25-2015 12:17 PM
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