Author
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Topic: USAF Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL)
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Gordon Reade Member Posts: 334 From: USA Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 07-29-2009 11:30 AM
The U.S. Air Force Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL) program planned to use a Gemini spacecraft with a hole cut through the heat shield to form a hatch for astronauts to pass through to a space station behind it.Were the astronauts intended to wear spacesuits? It just doesn't seem possible for a normal sized guy is a bulky suit to pass through such a small hatch. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1047 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-29-2009 11:38 AM
It is possible. I have see the footage from Spacecraft Films' X-20/MOL set. |
Gordon Reade Member Posts: 334 From: USA Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 07-29-2009 11:45 AM
The MOL program was cancelled June 1969. At that time the first manned flight was set for Feb. 1, 1972 with a crew of James Taylor and Albert Crews and should have lasted 30 days. With the first flight less then three years away, had the Air Force started construction on the space station? I asked a friend of mine who is a retired Air Force colonel and he said that, although canceled, the program was never declassified. I didn't know if that meant he didn't know, or if it meant he couldn't say. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1047 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-29-2009 01:57 PM
Your friend have right. The program was (and is) never declassified. Here we have some things about MOL. |
xlsteve Member Posts: 391 From: Holbrook MA, USA Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 07-29-2009 02:19 PM
I'll have to check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure that the new book Spacesuits: The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum Collection has information on MOL space suits. I know that there are some MOL suits on the museum's website. If you search for MOL in the collections section you can see more items as well. See the second page of results particularly.Update: "Spacesuits" chapter 4 covers MOL suits. |
Steven Kaplan Member Posts: 140 From: New Jersey Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 07-29-2009 02:45 PM
A MOL space suit was located at KSC back in 2007. I've often wondered what other hidden gems there might be throughout KSC, JSC and other NASA facilities.
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mikej Member Posts: 481 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 07-29-2009 05:29 PM
Hulu has the full episode of NOVA's Astrospies, which has a fair amount about MOL, including some footage of astronauts wearing Gemini-style suits while attempting to go through the heat shield hatch. I think it's an edited version of some of what's on the Spacecraft Films DVD set.The episode also has some footage (or perhaps a recreation) of the discovery of the MOL suits at LC 5/6, the Soviet's Almaz, and Corona. |
mikej Member Posts: 481 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 07-29-2009 07:18 PM
I've uploaded my pictures of the MOL space suit at the Omniplex in Oklahoma City and a couple of pictures of the Gemini-MOL spacecraft at the Air Force Museum on Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. |
Gordon Reade Member Posts: 334 From: USA Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 07-30-2009 10:00 AM
I still don’t understand the heat shield hatch. Even if you cut a hole through it how do you get around the ejection seat? Were they going to cut a hole through the seat as well? Also how did the engineers who designed the heat shield in the first place feel about holes being cut in it? The idea seems low rent and jury-rigged. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-30-2009 10:06 AM
The heat shield cut hatch was tested on the only flight of the MOL program, Gemini II, on a suborbital flight. The hatch was located between the seats, as can be seen in this photo. |
mikej Member Posts: 481 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 07-30-2009 09:07 PM
I have just posted my pictures of the Gemini 2/MOL spacecraft. This includes several pictures of the hatch opening cut into the heat shield. |
Proponent Member Posts: 59 From: London Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 07-30-2009 09:43 PM
By the way, the Soviet TKS, although never flown manned, also had a hatch in its heat shield. |
Duke Of URL Member Posts: 1316 From: Syracuse, NY Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-31-2009 01:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by mikej: Hulu has the full episode of NOVA's Astrospies...
One surprise was seeing Mike Collins in a group of MOL astronauts.There were several NASA astronaut candidates I recognized from various selection groups as well. |
Delta7 Member Posts: 1505 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 07-31-2009 01:29 PM
Actually, I think that was footage of ARPS classes which included future MOL as well as NASA astronauts (I recognized Collins, Ted Freeman, Charlie Bassett and Joe Engle, who were all in the same ARPS class which graduated in 1963). |
Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-31-2009 02:22 PM
If they were intending to use the X-20 suits, the helmets would need to be different since the Dyna-soar suits utilized a larger bubble helmet that the astronauts could move their head around freely in (sort of like what shuttle LES/ACES suits use). Gemini would almost require the form fitting helmet as used in Gemini and the S-1010 thru 1030 series high altitude pressure suit helmets designed by Dave Clark.I remember a few years ago that somebody was selling what apparently was an MOL suit on eBay, but it had one of the strangest helmets I ever saw. It didn't dawn on me until the NOVA show that aired the underwater footage that the helmet was apparently just for use underwater as they showed a couple guys in suits using them. The helmet has a split so that a safety diver could get to the astronaut's scuba breather in an emergency if he needed to. The suits weren't pressurized like they typically are in NASA's NBL facilities, so the astronauts apparently just wore scuba gear under them. |
lb206 Member Posts: 48 From: Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-31-2009 05:49 PM
Just a clarification of one point. The capsule with the hatch was indeed flown on Gemini II. However on that flight it had a normal heat shield. The capsule was later modified adding a new heat shield with the hatch and flown again on a Titan IIIC with a MOL mockup. |
Lou Chinal Member Posts: 1306 From: Staten Island, NY Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 08-02-2009 11:06 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the angle of the seats was slightly changed. In Gemini the angle was 24 degrees. I remember that the MOL on display at the USAF museum the top of the seats were further apart. It may have been the display or the lighting. Maybe the plan was to take the suits off first, than go though the hatch.I remember thinking the same thing: the helmet is too big to fit to fit. |
Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 08-02-2009 11:24 PM
As far as I know, they would still wear the suits for egress into the MOL from the Gemini. All the training footage of them going through the tunnel in the zero gee aircraft sims had them in full suits instead of shirt sleeve. I don't see how one could remove a Gemini suit in the capsule as not even the balloon type suits worn on Gemini 7 were completely removed during Frank and Jim's 14 day trip in a phonebooth together.As the picture from Robert shows, the area between the ejection seats was modified to allow the hatch to go there. Altering the angles of the seats a little bit would provide enough space to do it if needed and indeed the intended MOL Gemini B had quite a few differences from its NASA counterpart. The Gemini 2 ship that reflew on the MOL mockup launch only had tiny number of the changes intended for the production spec capsules. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1047 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-03-2009 10:25 AM
In the training footage (early 1966) we see Gemini G4C spacesuits, and a standard Gemini mock-up with only the seats modified in the angles.In a real Gemini B and with Hamilton Standard MH-8 MOL suits the transfer operation was more, more easy. |
Lou Chinal Member Posts: 1306 From: Staten Island, NY Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 08-03-2009 02:01 PM
Good point. The X-20 suits had to be passed over in favor of the G3C and G4C type. |
PeterO Member Posts: 399 From: North Carolina Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-04-2009 10:57 AM
quote: Originally posted by Lou Chinal: I think the angle of the seats was slightly changed.
From the photos of the capsule, it's evident that the inboard sides of the seat structures were cut back. This photo shows it quite clearly.In a similar photo I took at Kennedy Space Center of Gemini 9, it can be seen that the top of the ejection seat rails are in the same position relative to the hatch latches, so it does not appear that the seats were moved. |
mikej Member Posts: 481 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 10-27-2009 03:52 PM
On the topic of the MOL suits, the U.S. Space & Rocket Center Archives, hosted by the University of Alabama - Huntsville has a document, Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL) Space Suit Technical Information by the HS/SSI Space Hardware Heritage Team: This publication contains a lot of information and photos from the MOL section of US Space Suits by Thomas and McMann. In fact, Ken Thomas appears to have been an author of the HS/SSI document. |
space1 Member Posts: 853 From: Danville, Ohio Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 10-27-2009 08:27 PM
(Until today I didn't know that this MOL space suit topic had strayed into MOL seat modifications. So on that topic...)The MOL Gemini-B cabin was modified only in the area of the heat shield hatch. The angle of the seats was not changed, as this would have affected everything else (seat width, panel placement, hatch window location, etc.). Instead, the seats were cut and components relocated to allow access to the heat shield hatch. The area between the seats was also changed with the removal of the storage structure and water tank, and modification of the hatchway sill beams. |
John Charles Member Posts: 339 From: Houston, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-12-2011 07:38 AM
quote: Originally posted by Gordon Reade: ...how did the engineers who designed the heat shield in the first place feel about holes being cut in it? The idea seems low rent and jury-rigged.
A well-designed pass-through in a heat shield seems not to cause problems. In addition to the Gemini-B and TKS demonstrations, the Space Shuttle Orbiter and Buran had multiple hatches in their thermal protection surfaces for landing gear, and in the Orbiter's case, for fuel and oxidizer from the external tank to the main engines. Also, the Apollo command module was physically attached to the service module by fittings in the heat shield. |
John Charles Member Posts: 339 From: Houston, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-12-2011 07:42 AM
quote: Originally posted by Jay Chladek: ...not even the balloon type suits worn on Gemini 7 were completely removed during Frank and Jim's 14 day trip in a phonebooth together
Actually, the G5C suits worn by Borman and Lovell on Gemini 7 were completely removed, first by Lovell, then by Borman (after Lovell donned his again), then finally by both men simultaneously. |
John Charles Member Posts: 339 From: Houston, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-12-2011 07:52 AM
quote: Originally posted by carmelo: In a real Gemini B and with Hamilton Standard MH-8 MOL suits the transfer operation was more, more easy.
I have wondered about that, too. Seeing how difficult it was to move from the Gemini cockpit into the tunnel wearing even unpressurized Gemini suits (in the Spacecraft Films footage of the zero-g tests), it would seem even more difficult wearing the bulkier MH-8 suits. But apparently the designers know better than I. |
Rocket Engineer Member Posts: 10 From: Huntsville, Alabama, USA Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 04-06-2011 04:11 PM
quote: Originally posted by mikej: I have just posted my pictures of the Gemini 2/MOL spacecraft. This includes several pictures of the hatch opening cut into the heat shield.
The MOL test used a refurbished Gemini II capsule that had previously flown, recovered, and modified for the MOL test flight, thus demonstrating the Gemini's reusability. The hatch through the heat shield was designed to allow the astronauts to enter the station with or without spacesuits so that depressurization was not needed. The ejection seats were modified to allow the hatch to be accessed. They were mirror images of each other rather than being identical as in the NASA Gemini. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-29-2011 09:54 AM
Here is a 2007 MOL article from the Kennedy Space Center website that includes comments by astronaut Bob Crippen and photos of the Gemini-B heatshield with hatch, the Gemini-B spacecraft atop the Titan-3C launch vehicle and the MOL spacesuit.The Titan-3C/Gemini-B spacecraft was launched from Launch Complex 40 on November 3, 1966. That was after Gemini 11 and before Gemini 12. |
avclubvids New Member Posts: 4 From: Los Angeles Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-11-2012 05:41 PM
I'm an LA-based filmmaker working on a film centered around the Manned Orbiting Laboratory. We've found some extremely useful info on here, and I thought I'd reach out to you guys and see if anyone has an interest in helping to design an MOL interior set. We've been scouring the web for weeks now and reaching out to people who seem to have a little more interest and info than most people do. If you have any desire to help out, please reach out to me and I'll get you looped in on what we are trying to do and what kinds of help we need. For updates on where we are so far, I've been posting here. I'd gladly answer any questions anyone has, so fire away! Editor's note: Threads merged. |
dtemple Member Posts: 729 From: Longview, Texas, USA Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-11-2012 11:22 PM
If you haven't viewed the PBS documentary, "Astrospies," yet then I suggest you do so. The only Gemini MOL spacecraft launched is on display at US Air Force Museum at Cape Canaveral. An unflown one is on display at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Dayton, Ohio. |
avclubvids New Member Posts: 4 From: Los Angeles Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-12-2012 12:09 AM
"Astrospies" was the thing that first introduced me to the amazing MOL story, it's pretty well done!We had found the locations of the Gemini B's here and have gathered a lot of images of the craft for reference. We have found a single image of the inside of the MOL under construction. And obviously there are a lot of articles, documents, and schematics floating around for what it might have looked like. We found the Spacecraft Films DVD on Dyna-Soar and MOL thanks to this forum, but have not found the MOL camera training footage that the NOVA doc used. What we need more than anything is more images of the MOL interior, or training mockups like they briefly show in the Astrospies doc, or of the underwater training they underwent. I have yet to locate anyone who worked on the program who is willing to talk about it, super frustrating considering the fact that the programs around it at the time are all becoming unclassified now! Any insight into these topics is deeply appreciated. |
Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-12-2012 01:34 AM
I believe part of the reason why MOL is still classified likely has to do with the main camera system (KH-10 Dorian) probably being essentially the same design used on the KH-11 and KH-12 satellites. Sure, the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) recently signed over a pair of apparent KH-11s to NASA for future use as potential space telescopes, but given that we haven't seen any images of them, I would say they are still being handled as secret items.I've probably got the same data you've already sourced as I have one chapter related to MOL in my upcoming book (and I've got no diagrams of the MOL). Only thing I found somewhat interesting was the main living section of the MOL has no windows to look down on the Earth. Only view of the planet would come from the KH-10, unless a MOL astronaut crawls up the tunnel to chill out in the Gemini for awhile. Only other interesting bit is since the crews would be breathing an Oxygen Helium mixture, their voices would be all high pitched and squeeky, like deep sea divers breathing a similar HeliOx mixture (which as a byproduct would also be pretty effective in potentially obscuring the identity of a specific MOL crew on a mission if somebody tried to listen in on the air to ground transmissions). |
Mr. Apollo 17 Member Posts: 55 From: Ashland, OH USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 07-12-2012 02:08 AM
Here are comprehensive photos and diagrams and information about MOL.If you could get into contact with one of the astronauts planned to go up on it like Bobko, Crippen, and Fullerton they might be able to tell you more from a point of view that is as good as you can get. I will do more research into MOL for you and if I find more info for you I will email you it. |
Obviousman Member Posts: 438 From: NSW, Australia Registered: May 2005
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posted 07-12-2012 05:06 AM
I only know some general details about the MOL programme, and so am of no immediate help... but would appreciate it if you provide details in this thread of when your project gets aired, etc. I'd love to see it. |
Jim Behling Member Posts: 1463 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-12-2012 06:13 AM
quote: Originally posted by Jay Chladek: I believe part of the reason why MOL is still classified likely has to do with the main camera system (KH-10 Dorian) probably being essentially the same design used on the KH-11 and KH-12 satellites.
No. The KH-10 Dorian actually was started before the KH-9. KH-10 was a film system and there was requirement for it to operate in an unmanned mode and would have replaced the Gemini with multiple SRV's. It was this and the KH-8 that negated its reason for existence. MOL camera layout: |
Headshot Member Posts: 864 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 07-12-2012 06:56 AM
The October 1965 issue of Air Force and Space Digest has several articles about the MOL project including some very interesting art concepts. One is of a 100 ft inflatable antenna attached to a MOL Laboratory Module and the other shows several MOL Labs and their Gemini spacecraft lashed together. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-12-2012 07:17 AM
There is another photo of the blue Air Force MOL spacesuit and some comments by Bob Crippen in this NASA Kennedy History article. |
WAWalsh Member Posts: 809 From: Cortlandt Manor, NY Registered: May 2000
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posted 07-12-2012 08:28 AM
quote: Originally posted by Mr. Apollo 17: If you could get into contact with one of the astronauts planned to go up on it like Bobko, Crippen, and Fullerton...
Edgar Mitchell would be another person with information |
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 07-12-2012 08:54 AM
quote: Originally posted by WAWalsh: Edgar Mitchell would be another person with information
Ed Mitchell?
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Skylon Member Posts: 274 From: Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 07-12-2012 09:29 AM
Though not selected as a MOL Astronaut, Mitchell was working as a Navy representative to the MOL program (Chief, Project Management Division of the Navy Field Office for Manned Orbiting Laboratory according to his NASA bio) before he was selected by NASA. |