Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-13-2024 08:39 PM
Please use this topic to discuss Intuitive Machines' Nova-C lunar lander "Odysseus" and the IM-1 moon landing mission.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-13-2024 08:44 PM
Intuitive Machines' IM-1 Nova-C lander is named "Odysseus," as nominated by Mario Romero an assembly, integration and test engineer with the company. Romero described why the name Odysseus was a worthy name:
For those who remember the epics "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," Odysseus (the wise and courageous) was the genius who devised the Trojan horse. But his adventure truly began after the Trojan War.
His voyage should have been a quick, straight shot back home to Penelope in Ithaca; however, this journey takes much longer due to the many challenges, setbacks and delays. Traveling the daunting, wine-dark sea repeatedly tests his mettle, yet ultimately, Odysseus proves worthy and sticks the landing back home after ten years.
Odysseus, or "Odie" for short.
From former NASA astronaut Jack Fischer, vice president for production and operations at Intuitive Machines (via X):
How are we going to tell which shift (Red, White, or Blue) is on console in Nova Control (NC) — you might ask, well... Odie will tell us.
Kenyatta Ware got some hats (cowboy of course - we're in Houston) for our beanie-baby Odie who will supervise Nova-C from the Mission Director console. Odie has a Red, White, and Blue hat for each shift. For landing however, he will wear an American Flag (Red, White, and Blue all at once) hat because the whole company's hopes, dreams, and prayers will be fueling a successful descent and landing for our favorite little spaceship.
We're getting close folks, and wee-Odie is ready to guide us in pure Texas style!
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-13-2024 10:14 PM
Tonight's launch attempt has been scrubbed due to "off-nominal methane temperatures prior to stepping into methane load."
SpaceX is now targeting a launch at Thursday (Feb. 15) at 1:05 a.m. EST.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-14-2024 10:20 PM
NASA live video
Watch Intuitive Machines' Nova-C lunar lander lift off from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket. Intuitive Machines and SpaceX are now targeting 1:05 a.m. EST (0605 UTC) Thursday, Feb. 15, 2024, for launch.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-15-2024 01:04 AM
Acquisition of signal. Intuitive Machines' IM-1 Nova-C lander "Odysseus" is on its way to the moon!
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-17-2024 11:08 AM
Intuitive Machines successfully transmitted its first IM-1 mission images to Earth on February 16, 2024. The images were captured shortly after separation from SpaceX's second stage.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-20-2024 03:55 PM
Intuitive Machines is targeting no earlier than 5:49 p.m. EST Thursday, Feb. 22, to land its Odysseus lunar lander near Malapert A in the south pole region of the moon.
Live landing coverage will stream on Intuitive Machines' website and air on NASA+, NASA Television, the NASA app, and the agency’s website (as well as will be embedded on this thread).
NASA's coverage will include live streaming and blog updates beginning 4:15 p.m. EST on Thursday, as the landing milestones occur. Upon successful landing, Intuitive Machines and NASA will host a news conference to discuss the mission and science opportunities that lie ahead as the company begins lunar surface operations.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-22-2024 09:56 AM
Intuitive Machines is now targeting 5:30 p.m. EST (2230 GMT) today (Feb. 22) for Odysseus' landing on the moon. The lander is currently in a 57 mile (92 km) circular lunar orbit.
Odysseus passes over the near side of the moon following lunar orbit insertion on Feb. 21, 2024.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-22-2024 10:54 AM
Landing is now targeted for no earlier than 4:24 p.m. EST (2124 GMT) today.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-22-2024 01:41 PM
Landing is now targeted for no earlier than 6:24 p.m. EST (2324 GMT) today.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-22-2024 05:38 PM
"Houston, Odysseus has found its new home."
Based on a faint but detectable signal, Odysseus has landed on the moon, returning the U.S. to the lunar surface for the first time in 52 years and becoming the first commercial spacecraft to achieve a touchdown on a celestial body other than Earth.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-22-2024 07:28 PM
Update from Intuitive Machines (via X):
After troubleshooting communications, flight controllers have confirmed Odysseus is upright and starting to send data.
Right now, we are working to downlink the first images from the lunar surface.
thisismills Member
Posts: 540 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
posted 02-22-2024 08:22 PM
Fantastic news, congratulations to the whole team. Great to hear that the methane/oxygen liquid propulsion system worked, a first for a landing on the moon. Looking forward to seeing the images.
Philip Member
Posts: 6256 From: Brussels, Belgium Registered: Jan 2001
posted 02-23-2024 02:02 AM
Despite all the news about the first artwork on the Moon carried by IM-1, credit where credit is due as Belgian artist Paul Van Hoeydonck has the first official work of art on the moon since August 1971: Fallen Astronaut carried on Apollo 15!
Ken Havekotte Member
Posts: 3798 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
posted 02-23-2024 04:37 AM
Also for the three artwork cachet covers that Charlie Duke had with him aboard LM-11 in April 1972.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-23-2024 07:53 AM
Before either of those missions, Apollo 11 carried sculpted gold olive branches, one of which was left on the lunar surface.
The more specific claim I have seen for IM-1 is that it is the first lunar mission to carry art for art's sake, i.e. not as a memorial, memento or monument. But that seems subjective, too.
Axman Member
Posts: 423 From: Derbyshire UK Registered: Mar 2023
posted 02-23-2024 08:19 AM
Let's not get too parochial here...
The Soviet Union (as illustrated in this article) has distributed hundreds of metallic pennants over the lunar surface. Whatever your opinion of politics, Soviet kitsch, or iconography, they were without doubt works of art.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-23-2024 08:33 AM
NASA and Intuitive Machines will host a televised news conference at 5 p.m. EST today (Feb. 23) to detail the Odysseus lander's moon landing.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-23-2024 04:14 PM
Intuitive Machines now believes that Odysseus tipped over or landed on its side, with the top of the lander perched atop a rock (represented here by the blue miniature lander).
The earlier call that they were upright was due to stale sensor data from inside the fuel tank that was showing gravity pulling the remaining propellant to the bottom of the tank.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3700 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 02-23-2024 05:23 PM
It's impressive that they (apparently) made it to the surface in one piece, although this is the second consecutive lunar lander that has toppled over on landing, leaving everyone literally in the dark about what happened. I really do understand the arguments about a small company with limited funds not being able to fit everything useful into a small spacecraft, but this is the second time that the presence of live video during a dodgy landing would probably have explained instantly what went wrong. Instead of "we can't do this for reasons A, B, C..." designers of these spacecraft should be saying "We must do this - now let's work out how."
If anyone is in any doubt that the absence of live video matters, I suggest a quick perusal of the "comments" posted on the IM-1 website in the hours after the landing. Those are people interested enough in space to follow this mission, and almost unanimously they are scathing about the absence of live video. There is no direct link between tax-payers and a private company, but it still matters that the audience for this stuff feel cheated by landing coverage that shows nothing intelligible to the interested layman. I seem to remember China has live video of its lunar landings, even though they no longer show it. So it can be done - and China probably used "borrowed" American technology to do it!
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-23-2024 05:52 PM
It is not so much a matter of technology alone, but a matter of cost. China was able to share live video because it had use of an Earth-relay satellite (a spacecraft from a previous mission), adding millions of more dollars to their overall cost.
Someday there may be U.S. relay satellites to allow for the same capability, but in the meantime, Intuitive Machines landed on the moon with a vehicle that cost (by one estimate) one-fifth of what China spent on its lander.
Intuitive Machines' responsibility is to its customers, including NASA, and to its shareholders. The company did not have a need or requirement to know immediately what happened to its lander. The public may want live video for entertainment purposes (and I count myself among that number), but there is and was no technical justification for it, since even if they could see what was happening, there was nothing they could do about it.
Besides, even if they had live video, there would still be people complaining about the quality or the orientation or the number of different angles available. People will always find a reason to complain.
In any case, here's a new pretty picture to entertain the masses:
On Feb. 22, 2024, Intuitive Machines’ Odysseus lunar lander captures a wide field of view image of Schomberger crater on the Moon approximately 125 miles (200 km) uprange from the intended landing site, at approximately about 6 miles (10 km) altitude.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 1361 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 02-23-2024 08:32 PM
Do we have any idea of what caused the toppling? In theory the terrain guidance and avoidance software should have caught any sort of slope that would have exceeded design limitations, and in a like manner should have "seen" a rock large enough to affect the landing pad(s) stability.
I realize this is IM's first attempt, and they should be congratulated for what they have accomplished.
NukeGuy Member
Posts: 116 From: Irvine, CA USA Registered: May 2014
posted 02-23-2024 09:11 PM
The IM lander looks like like it might be on the top-heavy side at least relative to the span of its landing gear.
It would seem to me that a six-legged lander would increase the chances of at least one and possibly two adjacent legs landing on a rock or inside a crater with one-third of the legs making an unstable landing configuration whereas a four legged lander would have only one out of four legs in such a position. I believe the LM design originally had five legs and it was decided to go with four but I think that was because of weight concerns.
Makes me wonder about Lunar Starship and Blue Moon.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-23-2024 09:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by SkyMan1958: Do we have any idea of what caused the toppling?
More analysis is needed to confirm, but one of the scenarios Intuitive Machines is considering was described by CEO Steve Altemus as follows:
We came down a little bit faster [than planned]. We were supposed to come down at one meter per second, which is about two miles an hour. And we were supposed to null the lateral velocity, which was supposed to be zero when we were coming straight down. [Instead] we had about two miles an hour [lateral velocity].
And so if it was coming down at six miles an hour, as we think, and moving two miles an hour and it caught a foot, it might have fractured that landing gear and came [tipped] over gently.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1120 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 02-24-2024 01:25 AM
Seems to be a trend here: cheaper isn't better.
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1895 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 02-24-2024 07:32 AM
That isn't a valid conclusion.
quote:Originally posted by NukeGuy: The IM lander looks like like it might be on the top-heavy side at least relative to the span of its landing gear.
Can't make that judgment based on visuals.
Headshot Member
Posts: 1296 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 02-24-2024 09:55 AM
From looking at the pictures of the lander's footpads, they appear to be flat, roundish plates that provide a nice edge to catch on if the lander has lateral motion. Neither Surveyor, the LM, or Viking had flat plates but had rounded or cupped edges on their footpads. So maybe that is a learning opportunity for future craft.
That being said, Odie performed quite well. Remember that Apollo could only land on a small portion of the lunar surface. Generally 45 degrees east or west and 26 degrees north or south. Any site outside of of those boundaries (such at Tycho) was quickly shot down by McDivitt and others for operational reasons.
By landing at -85 degrees latitude, IM proved that their approach works. This is a big step forward.
Glint Member
Posts: 1135 From: New Windsor, Maryland USA Registered: Jan 2004
posted 02-24-2024 11:31 AM
I had wondered, "why so many legs?" Seems three should have been sufficient, cheaper and simpler. Three legs were enough for the Surveyor landers, but that was 60 years ago, before today's whiz kid engineers were born. Six legs and it STILL toppled over?
Lessons learned? Try eight legs next time? 😄
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3700 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 02-24-2024 11:47 AM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: The public may want live video for entertainment purposes...
It would not be for "entertainment purposes" but for engineering and educational purposes.
A live video feed would have spotted the excessive lateral movement and possibly the actual cause of the topple, and would have been invaluable in helping to improve the next missions. Without live video, IM clearly didn't have a clue what had happened, and even issued a statement hours after the landing mistakenly telling the world that Odysseus was "upright."
I assume from past examples that test-pilots take video of their flights, not to provide "pretty pictures" but to provide engineering evidence in case something goes wrong.
Tom Member
Posts: 1743 From: New York Registered: Nov 2000
posted 02-24-2024 11:58 AM
I have a feeling future designs will have the "center of gravity" much lower on the landing vehicle. IM-1 looks very "top heavy".
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-24-2024 12:23 PM
How are people judging mass distribution solely by seeing exterior photographs?
Most of the payloads were mounted low on the lander, alongside the (internal) propulsion tank. The top of the lander had a solar panel, communication antennae and a small laser retroreflector.
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: A live video feed would have spotted...
My question is why did it have to be live? The video (or sequential images) was recorded and will be transmitted back to Earth, so Intuitive Machines will have access to the same data, just not in real time.
NukeGuy Member
Posts: 116 From: Irvine, CA USA Registered: May 2014
posted 02-24-2024 01:26 PM
The observation of the lander being “top heavy” was just that - an observation and a deliberately qualified one.
Of course top heavy for a given design is dependent on the terrain and landing conditions.
I think (opinion here) that this is a valid concern with Lunar Starship and Blue Moon.
It would be interesting to compare the heights vs. landing gear span for landers (admittedly not a perfect metric) from the Soviet Luna of 1966 to IM.
Espace Member
Posts: 11 From: Toulouse, France Registered: Apr 2020
posted 02-24-2024 03:14 PM
Well Luna 9 in '66 is the easy one - no landing gear.
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1895 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 02-24-2024 03:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: Seems to be a trend here: cheaper isn't better.
No, not really.
Three of five $100M missions is better than one $500M mission. That is the point of this. Cheaper missions with more risk to fly to instruments and experiments that wouldn't get a chance to fly otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: I seem to remember China has live video of its lunar landings...
It required a second spacecraft. There is no US TDRSS equivalent at the moon.
These missions are mass and power budget (everything) limited. They are not state sponsored. Real time video is not required, needed or desired.
quote:Originally posted by NukeGuy: I think (opinion here) that this is a valid concern with Lunar Starship and Blue Moon.
Not really on both.
quote:Originally posted by Glint: Seems three should have been sufficient, cheaper and simpler.
LM had four, was it designed wrong?
You don't know the design constraints or decision to make a judgement.
Glint Member
Posts: 1135 From: New Windsor, Maryland USA Registered: Jan 2004
posted 02-24-2024 04:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: My question is why did it have to be live?
In case of fatal crash, or damaged or blocked its antenna after toppling over on its many redundant legs such that playback was impractical.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Behling: LM had four, was it designed wrong?
I mentioned Surveyor because it, like Odie, was a first of its kind unmanned lunar landing mission.
You're right, Apollo had different constraints, like stability on a sloped surface or sufficient shock absorbency on landing or ability to support a given mass.
As far as Odie, I'm not convinced that its own practical constraints were adequately understood, as indicated by its resulting attitude.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 1361 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 02-24-2024 07:57 PM
Does anyone know the approximate Latitude IM-1 landed at, e.g. how close were they actually to the South Pole? Thank you!
Headshot Member
Posts: 1296 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 02-24-2024 08:23 PM
IM was aiming for a site at approximately 85 degrees South latitude. They won't know their true location until they download the data they require, or until Odie is photographed and identified by LRO (which might occur this weekend).
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1895 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 02-25-2024 09:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by Glint: ...such that playback was impractical.
That is what real time telemetry is for. Don't need video for that.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 52131 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 02-26-2024 08:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by Headshot: ...until Odie is photographed and identified by LRO
The Intuitive Machines IM-1 Nova-C, known as Odysseus, touched down on the Moon Thursday, 22 February, at 23:23:53 UTC (17:23 CST). The arrow indicates the Nova-C lander; the image width is 973 meters, NAC M1463440322L
Odysseus came to rest at 80.13 degrees S, 1.44 degrees E, 2579 m elevation, within a degraded one-kilometer diameter crater where the local terrain is sloped at a sporty 12 degrees.
Axman Member
Posts: 423 From: Derbyshire UK Registered: Mar 2023
posted 02-26-2024 10:02 AM
From NASA's photo there is no obvious impediment to the probe landing upright. Sunlight is incident from the top right of the photo such that a depression (e.g. a crater) has a black shadow at upper right and a bright reflective surface at lower left.
The probe is not in an obvious small crater: i.e. there is no dark shadow to top and right of the probe.
At first I thought it had hit a large menhir type rock (the long dark shadow to bottom and left of the shiny probe), but further calculations based on the photo frame size would suggest instead that that is the probe's own shadow.
posted 02-13-2024 08:39 PM
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