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Author
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Topic: Shuttle tracking ships: submarine escort?
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Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-14-2014 11:30 AM
  
Back in the early days of the space shuttle program, Navy tracking ships like USNS Range Sentinel and USNS Redstone regularly set out to sea before launch in support of NASA. When visiting the Space Coast those days I always looked for them. One time I was photographing the Range Sentinel in Port Canaveral when a nondescript pickup truck pulled up nearby and a couple of guys in fatigues got out and started walking around. I was wearing my KSC shuttle mission specific press badge and basically ignored them. They didn't say anything to me. As I was essentially done with that location I packed up my gear and left waving to them as I drove away. I had been on public property and had often photographed the grand old ships before. At the time I wondered why my presence had garnered their attention. It wasn't until I developed the negatives weeks later and zoomed in on the images that I realized what had happened. I had inadvertently captured on film a submarine which was moored directly behind the Range Sentinel. Which begs the question; was it common practice back then for tracking ships to have submarine escort?
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albatron
Member Posts: 2782
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 10-14-2014 02:27 PM
Submarines come and go frequently from Port Canaveral, and have been for as long as I can recall (1960's). |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-14-2014 02:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
I had inadvertently captured on film a submarine which was moored directly behind the Range Sentinel. Which begs the question; was it common practice back then for tracking ships to have submarine escort?
In short, No. - Port Canaveral is a base for testing submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Subs regularly visit the port to support (as the launch platform) test launches of the missiles. Also after going commissioning or refit, the whole submarine and crew go through a shakedown to certify that it can perform its mission to launch missiles.Other subs sometimes just use the base as a port of call.
- The Range Sentinel did not support NASA or shuttle launches, it supported the sub missile launches only.
- The Range Sentinel actually escorted the sub during launches and provided some security in the launch area.
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Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-14-2014 04:34 PM
So then USNS Redstone was also uninvolved with the early space shuttle program? That's a bit surprising. Always assumed that these range telemetry ships were part of the worldwide tracking network up until TDRSS became operational? |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-14-2014 05:12 PM
The Range Sentinel wasn't deliver until 1971 and it was specifically for SLBM testing support.In the 70s, most of the tracking ships were either decommissioned or converted to other uses. The Redstone was used for ETR support and not part of the NASA tracking network (manned or unmanned) nor the AF sat control network. It wasn't TDRSS that caused the demise of the Redstone, it was lack of need. The telemetry needs for the launch phase of most vehicles was covered by the Cape, JDMTA, Antigua and Ascension. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-14-2014 06:38 PM
OK, but it seemed like about T-3 days they could be seen in port; but come shuttle launch day they were nowhere to be found. Guess it was just a coincidence. This was back in the 1981-85 time frame. |
Ross
Member Posts: 483
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 10-15-2014 07:46 AM
I must disagree with Jim. While the USNS Redstone was part of ETR support, it was definitely used in support of NASA's Manned Space Program. It was used up to Apollo 11 and then again for the Skylab missions. It was a standby ship for ASTP. It was also used, along with the USNS General Hoyt S. Vandenberg and the USNS General H. H. Arnold, for the early Shuttle missions. This ceased to be necessary with the advent of the TDRSS network of satellites.I agree that the USNS Range Sentinel wasn't used for the manned program. It should be remembered that while NASA had some tracking ships, most of the tracking ships used by NASA were not actually owned by NASA and were made available to NASA as required. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-15-2014 11:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ross:
While the USNS Redstone was part of ETR support, it was definitely used in support of NASA's Manned Space Program.
I didn't say it wasn't used for the Manned Space Program, I said in the seventies, the ships were converted or decommissioned. The shuttle program didn't use the ships. - USNS Vanguard was converted to navigational test launch ship for SLBM support in 1980
- USNS Mercury was sold in 1970
- USNS Huntsville was struck from the register in 1974
- USNS Watertown was struck from the register in 1972
- General H. H. Arnold was struck from the register in March 1982
- General Hoyt S. Vandenberg was retired in 1983
Both before TDRSS was launched. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-15-2014 12:02 PM
They were often seen together at the Cape. USNS Redstone was definitely the larger of the two ships. This cover is from STS-9. |
Ross
Member Posts: 483
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 10-16-2014 08:59 AM
Jim, you actually did say that the USNS Redstone wasn't used as part of the NASA tracking network. quote:
Originally posted by Jim Behling:
The Redstone was used for ETR support and not part of the NASA tracking network (manned or unmanned)
The second part of your recent statement is incorrect. quote:
I said in the seventies, the ships were converted or decommissioned. The shuttle program didn't use the ships.
All three ships (the Restone, Vandenberg and Arnold) were used for the early part of the Space Shuttle program. The first TDRS satellite was launched in April 1983 at which stage the USNS Redstone was still in operation. It's true that by then the other two ships were not needed and had recently been retired. However, as I stated, the USNS Redstone was used until the TDRS satellite network was launched. Maybe it would have been retired in any case or maybe NASA still required one tracking ship until the first TDRS satellite was launched. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-16-2014 10:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ross:
Jim, you actually did say that the USNS Redstone wasn't used as part of the NASA tracking network.
It wasn't, it was an Air Force range asset.But anyways, I couldn't find any missions charts for the early missions which shows the orbital flight path and tracking assets but if you look at the press kits for the early missions, there is no mention of tracking ships. edit: Saw the mission charts for STS-2 and 5 on eBay, no ships are shown, which means they were not used to communicate to the crew or receive vehicle telemetry. The Arnold was used to track and photograph the ET breakup on STS-1. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44357
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-20-2014 07:44 AM
With credit to Dennis Jenkins, the Redstone was used at least as late as STS-51F for shuttle support.From the STS-6 MSFC Flight Evaluation Report, 8 June 1983: A down-link telemetry system, consisting of a PCM-FM S-band transmitter, a power divider and two antennas, was added to each SRB on STS-6. This system was needed to assure the availability of measurement and event data in case the tape recorders were damaged or unrecoverable as on STS-4. Both LH (A17) and RH (A18) SRB transmitters performed properly and downlinked Left and Right PCMI data to the aircrafts, AGAR-I, ACAH-2, ground stations, MILA, GBI, TEL-4, and the Redstone tracking ship. It was confirmed that all PCMl data functioned properly with no lost measurements until loss of signal when the telemetry system powered down at water impact. The last report that listed support from Redstone was STS-51F. From the STS-51F MSFC Flight Evaluation Report, Volume 1, 13 August 1985: USNS Redstone tracking data also provided impact time and impact velocity verification for the LH SRB. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-20-2014 11:53 AM
In both cases it is used as a ETR range asset versus part of NASA spaceflight tracking network. But I will stand corrected that they were used for shuttle launch support, much like other range assets such as Antigua and TEL-IV. The point I was trying to make is that they are not part of NASA's network (like the Apollo ships) and they did not support orbital operations. Their support was not replaced by TDRSS but were dropped due to cost. NASA no longer needed the extra telemetry support during launch. The existing range assets were enough. With the advent of TDRSS, the shuttle required even less range support. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 12-01-2014 11:58 AM
So, these ships were indeed somehow involved in the early space shuttle launches. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 07-21-2018 10:15 PM
Here are a couple of examples of tracking ships "USNS Vanguard" and "USNS Range Sentinel" postmarked on launch days for STS-7 and STS-51-C. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1020
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 11-20-2018 11:47 AM
Here is yet another US Navy space shuttle launch support cover. This one is from STS-5 involving the ARIS asset USNS Vandenberg. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1532
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 11-21-2018 06:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
...postmarked on launch days for STS-7 and STS-51-C.
That doesn't mean they supported the launch. |
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