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Author
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Topic: STS-1: Return to Launch Site (RTLS) test
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ASCAN1984
Member Posts: 1049
From: County Down, Nothern Ireland
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-31-2008 07:06 AM
   
This is from wikipedia: At one stage, NASA considered making STS-1 a test of the Return to Launch Site (RTLS) abort profile, which would have required Columbia to jettison the Solid Rocket Boosters at the normal separation altitude, fly downrange and pitch the Orbiter and External Tank over, resulting in the vehicle flying backwards with all three engines burning at the same time. Because the RTLS maneuver is considered very risky, Young declined, saying, "Let's not practice Russian roulette." |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-31-2008 07:59 AM
Smart man! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-31-2008 08:08 AM
For more on the topic, see the source for the Wikipedia entry, Popular Mechanics: Astronauts in Danger. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-31-2008 10:53 AM
Great article on a matter I knew little about. Thanks! |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-01-2008 08:58 AM
In the article, Young mentions taking advantage of the high launch inclination for ISS missions to abort up the coast rather than do an RTLS. Some people might not know that there are (if memory serves) 7 contingency abort facilities up the US east coast in NC, VA, DE, NJ, NY, NH, and MA. At Dover AFB, officials are in communication with Houston throughout the launch. It would be interesting for the crew to abort to these sites since there would be no glidepath guidance from the ground ... it would still be less exciting (in a good way) than an RTLS, though. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-01-2008 11:51 AM
Let's hope we never have to find out. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-01-2008 01:01 PM
At my previous newspaper job, I did the layout and printed out galley pages to proof before sending the page on to be printed. Said newspaper covered McGuire AFB, and I was realllly tempted to do a galley with a huge "Shuttle lands at McGuire" hed, underneath which would have been a six-column photo of a Shuttle touchdown (most likely, a KSC landing), and a second hed: "Seven astronauts safe after oxygen leak" and hang that up in my office and see people's reactions.Unfortunately, I never got the chance. |
Jonjonzilla
Member Posts: 42
From: Hagerstown, MAryland
Registered: May 2007
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posted 09-03-2008 07:44 AM
Does anyone have a better picture of the Hydrogen leak from the last page of that article? Was it actually visible as the picture suggests? |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 09-03-2008 09:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jonjonzilla:
Was it actually visible as the picture suggests?
Well, when Columbia got back from that mission, two small dents/openings were visible in at least one of the SSME engine bells and this is where the hydrogen leaks came from. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-03-2008 12:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
In the article, Young mentions taking advantage of the high launch inclination for ISS missions to abort up the coast rather than do an RTLS. Some people might not know that there are (if memory serves) 7 contingency abort facilities up the US east coast in NC, VA, DE, NJ, NY, NH, and MA.
I know Westover ARB in Chicopee, MA is an abort landing site. Plenty of runway (11,597' by 300' with 1000' over runs at each end) for this once upon a time SAC base that used to launch B52's.John, you're probably familiar with it seeing they now have C5's based there. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 09-03-2008 07:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jonjonzilla:
Does anyone have a better picture of the Hydrogen leak from the last page of that article?
There used to be some photos of the launch and you can see the leak. You can see the holes in these pics from the NASA web site. |
taneal1
Member Posts: 230
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 09-03-2008 10:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
For more on the topic, see the source for the Wikipedia entry, Popular Mechanics: Astronauts in Danger.
Another way to avoid RTLS, at least in the event of a single SSME failure, was the proposed 5-segment SRB. The additional thrust and delta V would allow the flight to continue on to orbit with the loss of a main engine at liftoff. This would of course completely eliminate the current RTLS requirement.
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capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-04-2008 07:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by taneal1:
This would of course completely eliminate the current RTLS requirement.
Of course, RTLS could occur for other reasons, such as loss of cabin pressurization. Perhaps that could be taken to a TAL site, though. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-04-2008 08:51 AM
Was anybody like me during the movie "Spacecamp" upset that realistically, they should have attempted an RTLS or even an AOA? |
Mr Meek
Member Posts: 353
From: Chattanooga, TN
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted 09-04-2008 09:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
Was anybody like me during the movie "Spacecamp" upset that realistically, they should have attempted an RTLS or even an AOA?
I think, if you're paying that much attention to that movie, you've got bigger problems.  |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 649
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-04-2008 10:32 AM
If I recall correctly, Young said something like "We don't need to practice bleeding" when asked about doing an RTLS test flight. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-04-2008 09:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Meek:
I think, if you're paying that much attention to that movie, you've got bigger problems.
Well, it's that they made such a big deal about finding oxygen that had they done an RTLS - or even a TAL or AOA or had them land at another alternate site on the first pass under remote control - they wouldn't have that worry. But then they wouldn't have a movie, either. (And before anyone asks, I was admittedly horrible watching The Terminal, saying over and over that it bore no resemblance to JFK.)
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ea757grrl
Member Posts: 729
From: South Carolina
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 09-05-2008 03:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sts205cdr:
IIRC, Young said something like "We don't need to practice bleeding" when asked about doing an RTLS test flight.
Good man! I forget which astronaut described RTLS as "two miracles, followed by an act of God," but it was apt. |
taneal1
Member Posts: 230
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 09-05-2008 03:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
Of course, RTLS could occur for other reasons, such as loss of cabin pressurization. Perhaps that could be taken to a TAL site, though.
Loss of cabin pressure was an IMMEDIATE problem for STS-25 and earlier, which as you say would have required an RTLS with a rapid cabin depress. However, with the current Launch & Entry suits, this would be much less of a time-limited event. Presumably, in addition to a bail-out O2 bottle, they would be connected to the main spacecraft air supply allowing a more preferable "forward" abort. |
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