Author
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Topic: Steve Fossett (1944-2007) (was: Search for aviator Steve Fossett)
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East-Frisian Member Posts: 586 From: Germany Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 09-23-2007 11:50 AM
What I don't understand is, that an airplane can disappear in the times of GPS, goole-Earth, modern radar. Sad enough. |
FutureAstronaut Member Posts: 372 From: Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-23-2007 12:51 PM
Paul, I still hope for a miracle too. I also know that this is going to be a REALLY BIG miracle if he is found alive, but I still have hope. |
Dirk Member Posts: 933 From: Belgium Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 09-26-2007 11:13 AM
A possible trace of Steve Fossett should be found near Death Valley National Park, 160 km from the point of departure, this on base of radar and satelite pictures. A new search in that aerea will be started. AP: New Leads in Search for Fossett |
medaris Member Posts: 181 From: United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 02-16-2008 08:04 AM
The BBC report that Steve Fossett was declared dead by a Chicago court. |
Scott Member Posts: 3307 From: Houston, TX Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-16-2008 08:04 AM
. |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-16-2008 09:27 AM
I think we all secretly feared this. Thanks to Robert I got to meet Steve after his record RTW endurance flight. A powerful memory of a great achiever.RIP . |
cddfspace Member Posts: 609 From: Morris County, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 02-16-2008 10:58 AM
. |
contra Member Posts: 318 From: Kiel, Germany Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 02-16-2008 11:46 AM
. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-16-2008 12:42 PM
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Jim Member Posts: 73 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 02-17-2008 10:11 PM
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tegwilym Member Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-18-2008 02:14 PM
. |
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 02-19-2008 01:23 PM
A terrible but not unexpected piece of news. I wonder if his craft/body will ever be found?Godspeed Steve! |
Lou Chinal Member Posts: 1306 From: Staten Island, NY Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 02-19-2008 04:24 PM
. |
ejectr Member Posts: 1751 From: Killingly, CT Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 05-01-2008 02:23 PM
Now they want to bill his widow for the search! |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 05-01-2008 04:13 PM
. |
dss65 Member Posts: 1156 From: Sandpoint, ID, USA Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-02-2008 09:01 PM
. |
kimmern123 Member Posts: 83 From: Norway Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 07-28-2008 09:42 AM
Just read on a Norwegian web site that investigators are suspecting Fossett of faking his own death. Here's the original article from which the Norwegian one was translated. Well, personally I don't know what to say, other than that such claims shouldn't be made without a strong case or at least some evidence pointing in this direction. This seems more like someone is embarrassed to admit they can't find him and instead they go "We can't find him, ergo he's not there" |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-28-2008 10:16 AM
Lt. Col. Ryan must have a pretty big ego, because she assumes that just because they can't find him, it means he could be faking his death. But then she states they found six other crash sites that weren't previously found...which in itself proves that a crashed aircraft can go un-located for many years out in the Nevada desert.While it's not impossible he faked his death, I have trouble believing that a man who fearlessly took on many great challenges and often risked his own life would choose to disappear because of "fears about his business dealings" or "personal problems." |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-29-2008 03:37 AM
It was only a question of time before this came up.Fossett had just shattered another record under the Perlan project - the maximum height achieved in a glider. "Disappearing" would not be the way out for such a driven high-achiever. The ONLY aspect I find odd is that he was apparently ill-prepared for survival contingencies, but then over-confidence has been the downfall of many a pilot. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-29-2008 04:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by gliderpilotuk: The ONLY aspect I find odd is that he was apparently ill-prepared for survival contingencies, but then over-confidence has been the downfall of many a pilot.
Yes, over-confidence can be a dangerous thing. After undertaking so many risky flights and surviving so many close calls, it's probably easy to under-estimate the dangers of a relatively simple (and "low risk") flight over the desert. To him, it must have seemed like no big deal. The irony is that it's these simple flights that sometimes take the legends, like Fossett and Crossfield. |
kosmonavtka Member Posts: 170 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 07-31-2008 03:07 AM
Another article with more details: Investigations by the authorities and insurers have uncovered a string of worrying revelations including: - SECRET MISTRESSES: Fossett cheated on his wife with TWO lovers in an amazing double life.
- BAFFLING CHOICE OF PLANE: Fossett chose a light stunt aircraft which could be easily dismantled and hidden, a type he did NOT like.
- NO EMERGENCY KIT: Despite a lifetime's experience he supposedly set off on the three-hour flight in just T-shirt and shorts with no parachute or his regular global positioning system watch.
- TAKE-OFF PUZZLE: The only witness who says he saw Fossett fly off has never been quizzed by the authorities.
- TRACKER RIDDLE: The plane was fitted with a satellite rescue beacon to pinpoint its position for rescuers but no signal was ever received.
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Spacepsycho Member Posts: 818 From: Huntington Beach, Calif. Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 07-31-2008 12:22 PM
I don't subscribe to the conclusion that SF faked his own death due to these "revelations" by insurance company investigators. Remember, insurance companies are NOT in the business of giving out money, they're only interested in how many claims they can deny and get away with in court. After dealing with insurance companies for many years, I know for a fact, they're only investigating SF's disappearance to find or create some evidence in order to deny any & all claims against his policies.If SF had 2 girl friends, that doesn't give him a reason to fake his death, that gives him a reason to get a divorce. BTW, about 50-60% of the men in the world cheat on their wives and like it or not, themz is the facts. Let's not forget that most of the greatest men this planet has ever known, have cheated on their wives, so to claim he wanted to hide from the world because he was screwing around, just doesn't hold water. He was in his 60's and had 2 girlfriends, I'm impressed that he could handle the extra work load, regardless of the moral implication. A study done a few years ago found that men who craved power (politicans, police officers, CEO's, adventurers and the such) were biologically wired in such a way, that they were compelled to have many women in their lives. Look at our former president, most politicans and others for a clear example of that drive. His choice of plane was actually pretty good, considering that it had outstanding handling capabilities, it had a very slow stall speed for short or unimproved landing strips on desert hardpack floor and that it was very fuel efficent. IMHO, it seems like a great choice. Do you really think that SF was going to land his airplane in the middle of the desert, pull out his handy dandy tool kit, take 2-3-4 hours to dismantle his airplane into parts small enough to hide, then dig a hole large enough, so then he could then bury it all????? Yeah....I'll need a little more evidence on that one. If the man didn't take an emergency kit, I don't see him packing 2 tanks for a cutting torch, socket set, Swiss army knife, an engine hoist and have hours to take this aircraft apart in order to hide it. I love flying in a T-shirt & shorts, who doesn't? 99% of small aircraft pilots don't take parachutes aboard unless we're jumping out of an airplane, which usually means we're not the ones flying. General aircraft pilots are taught from the beginning to always be looking for landing spot in case of emergency. He was flying over a desert in a plane that had a very good glide ratio and probably figured if he had engine failure, he could glide to a landing spot. Personally I think it's stupid to fly without an emergency kit, even on a 3 hour flight. Still, look at what happened to Gilligan when he went out on a 3 hour tour !!! 30 years later we all know what happened to those poor people. SF's reason for flying without his GPS watch could have been that his plane had one. Nowadays, most aircraft avionics packages come with GPS. Don't forget, SF has been flying long enough that he was taught how to navigate with a compass & chart, long before the advent of electronics. From what I've read, he also knew the area very well and flew in & out of this airport frequently. In the desert, flying without GPS is pretty easy, considering that you're looking at mountain landmarks that are typically 30-50 miles away, so it's easy to stay on the same heading without instruments or GPS. As far as his ELT not working, about 20-30% of the crashes don't activate them due to a dead battery or an antenna being broken. It's generally found that the battery was never changed. The same thing happens with boaters. I'm sure that SF is still out in the desert waiting to be found. Unfortunately he won't be in any condition to tell us what happened, but hopefully the crash site will give up it's secrets. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-31-2008 04:54 PM
Ray - I agree 100%. There is nothing about these "revelations" that lend much credibility to the notion that SF faked his death. |
Aztecdoug Member Posts: 1405 From: Huntington Beach Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 10-01-2008 01:59 PM
There are reports coming out that a hiker found some of Steve Fossett's personal belongings near Mammoth Lakes, California, near the Nevada border. A weathered sweat shirt, cash and a pilot's license with Fossett's name were found Tuesday near Mammoth Lakes, police Chief Randy Schienle said. The license did not have a photo, he said. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 10-02-2008 03:56 AM
Other reports here in the UK now mention plane wreckage being spotted from the air and search parties being sent to investigate further. |
Dirk Member Posts: 933 From: Belgium Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 10-02-2008 04:49 AM
Here are photos of the documents that were found. |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-02-2008 09:49 AM
Wreck confirmed as Fossett plane [BBC] The wreckage of a plane found near the town of Mammoth Lakes in California does belong to missing US adventurer Steve Fossett, officials say. A number plate confirmed the plane as the single-engine Bellanca Super Decathlon owned by the 63-year-old millionaire businessman. |
robsouth Member Posts: 769 From: West Midlands, UK Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 10-02-2008 02:06 PM
All those people going on about him faking his own death look like right muppets now. |
Spacepsycho Member Posts: 818 From: Huntington Beach, Calif. Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 10-02-2008 02:38 PM
It's a sad day. It will be interesting to see on Google maps the exact location of the crash site and how it looked from that angle.I wish he was found sitting on Branson's Carib island sipping a tropical drink, with his 2 girlfriends at the beach. RIP Steve. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-02-2008 02:49 PM
quote: Originally posted by Spacepsycho: It will be interesting to see on Google maps the exact location of the crash site and how it looked from that angle.
View Larger Map |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 10-02-2008 04:06 PM
Google Earth currently shows a date of 2005 for images of that area.I still don't understand why the Amazon Mechanical Turk didn't widen the search area once the original zone was covered at least a couple of times over. |
Dirk Member Posts: 933 From: Belgium Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 10-02-2008 04:39 PM
Just found the photos. Photo 12 is very interesting, looks like the 4 points lock of his safety bellts... but no bellts to seen... so they were not locked... or at some time unlocked... |
Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-02-2008 09:07 PM
quote: Originally posted by Dirk: Just found the photos. Photo 12 is very interesting, looks like the 4 points lock of his safety bellts... but no bellts to seen... so they were not locked... or at some time unlocked...
You can't necessarily go by that. Super Decathlons are two seat aircraft (front seat and rear seat). As such, it would have two sets of belts. So one set is unlocked, but we don't know from just looking at the photo if it is the front seat or rear seat. With the second seat unoccupied, there would no reason for the second set of belts to be locked, although some pilots do secure the unused set of belts and tighten them down, such as if they plan to fly aerobatics to keep the belts from flapping and potentially hitting something. If this was just intended to be a sightseeing trip though, then I doubt Fossett was planning to fly aerobatics. It looks like an instantly fatal crash to me, probably being an impact with the mountain where Steve tried to pull up at the last second or was already in a climb to avoid the mountain when something caused his plane to hit it. Apparently there were showers in that region on the day Steve disappeared, so it could have been either that he flew into a cloud and then into a mountain, or windshear could have brought him down (or caused his climb not to be as pronounced, resulting in the aircraft hitting at a nose high stance under power) and the results would have been the same eitherway. One of the photos shows the unmistakeable image of a Lycoming IO-320 motor (photo 20 of 47) and it looks like it broke loose from the firewall to end up away from the plane as the eyewitness accounts seem to indicate. Based on what I know about light planes being a licensed private pilot myself who owned something similar in size, it takes a lot of force to do that. This might also be the reason why the crash site is somewhat intact as if the engine had remained with the plane after impact, chances are it might have ignited the fuel remaining in the wing tanks and set the wreck ablaze. |
328KF Member Posts: 1234 From: Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 10-02-2008 09:58 PM
Sadly, it appears that investigators have found enough in the wreckage to positively identify the pilot.Certainly a great life lived... |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-03-2008 03:19 AM
quote: Originally posted by spaced out: I still don't understand why the Amazon Mechanical Turk didn't widen the search area once the original zone was covered at least a couple of times over.
I was thinking just the same. Maybe one "good" thing coming out of this will be a re-evaluation/refinement of technology as a search-tool. The question is whether, IF Google images had been updated, the wreckage COULD have been spotted by widening the search area. |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 10-03-2008 06:06 AM
Absolutely - what is needed is an image of the crash site from the last year at the resolution that was used in the Mechanical Turk search.It may be that the wreckage was so widely scattered and the pieces so small that there would have been nothing visible. However, one of the photos shows at least a small area of burnt ground. Even if that was only a few yards across it would have shown up as a black spot on an image. Combined with a few white bits of wing or fuselage it might have been enough to stand out on an image. |
David Bryant Member Posts: 986 From: Norfolk UK Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 10-03-2008 07:36 AM
quote: Originally posted by 328KF: Sadly, it appears that investigators have found enough in the wreckage to positively identify the pilot
Yes: a teeny bit of bone: sufficient for DNA testing. But they haven't tested it yet. Are there really enough wild creatures in California to completely devour a whole human in 12 months? |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-03-2008 08:11 AM
A few clues as to the size of any evidence:1. head-on flight into terrain 2. fire 3. one year on an exposed mountainside 4. wild animals ..and FWIW I don't think it's seemly to start a detailed debate on this aspect. |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 10-03-2008 08:14 AM
quote: Originally posted by David Bryant: Are there really enough wild creatures in California to completely devour a whole human in 12 months?
With bears and wolves around I'd be surprised to find anything much after a few days, let alone months. A 'whole human' doesn't amount to very much to a 250lb black bear and family. |
saturn1b Member Posts: 159 From: Westcliffe, CO Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 10-03-2008 08:53 AM
I'd have to agree with SpacedOut, being a member of a Search and Rescue team here in Colorado, it doesn't take long for a body to disappear. I was the first on my team to arrive at a body on one of our missions and when I got to it, a marmot was actually eating the gentleman's face. He had only been deceased for a day. After this long on the Fossett case, I'm a bit surprised they found any remains. My prayers are with the family for closure and an end to all the mystery. |