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Author
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Topic: Skylab 4: The myth of the mutiny in space
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SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4840
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-23-2021 12:10 PM
   
It's been almost half a century since the three astronauts on board the Skylab 4 space mission famously fell out with mission control. Soon afterwards, reports began to circulate that they went on strike. But Ed Gibson, the only one of the crew still alive, says the idea that they stopped work is a myth, BBC News reports. "The word 'strike' went at lightspeed throughout the control room and out into the news media, who feasted on that," Ed says."On the ground they interpreted it as a strike. But it wasn't intentional, it was our mistake. The media created this myth which has been floating around out there ever since and we've just had to live with it." To Ed, the idea made no sense whatsoever. "What were we going to do? Threaten to live on the moon?" |
c670cj
Member Posts: 20
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: Jul 2016
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posted 03-23-2021 12:51 PM
Well, Christopher C. Kraft Jr. sure interpreted it that way, Ed, and his interpretation was what mattered. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46208
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-23-2021 01:00 PM
By the time Skylab flew, Kraft was no longer a flight director or even a part of Mission Control. He became center director in 1972, so from a mission operations perspective, his opinion was no longer paramount.Further, as NASA now states on its website: After a thorough review of the available evidence, it is clear that no strike or mutiny took place during the Skylab 4 mission. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 697
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 03-23-2021 01:57 PM
As I understand it, Mission Controllers were used to the heavy pace kept up by the Conrad and Bean crews, and the third crew were on a marathon mission and just needed a short break. I spoke with Bill Pogue about this when I met him at KSC. |
c670cj
Member Posts: 20
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: Jul 2016
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posted 03-23-2021 03:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
He became center director in 1972, so from a mission operations perspective, his opinion was no longer paramount.
OK Robert. If you say so... but from what I recall, his "opinion" was paramount throughout his career with NASA. Someone got upset though. All I can say is Mr. Carr lived across the street from me, and after his return, he was unceremoniously dropped off at his house in a light tan "NASA-marked" Plymouth with a single driver, with no fanfare upon his return either at Ellington or in El Lago, which was a first for a returning crew at that time. Just myself and one other neighborhood kid (Bryan) were there to say "Welcome home Mr. Carr." He just said, "Thanks, boys." Very sad, even then. He was a great guy! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46208
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-23-2021 03:48 PM
I don't mean to question your memory, but per the Feb. 10, 1974 issue of The New York Times: The astronauts, Lieut. Col Gerald P. Carr of the Marines, Lieut. Col. William R. Pogue of the Air Force and Dr. Edward G. Gibson, a civilian scientist, returned from the earth‐orbiting Skylab space station Friday and underwent initial physical examinations on board the U.S.S. New Orleans, their recovery ship.They completed a third day of post‐splashdown tests before a brief welcoming ceremony at dockside in San Diego. Then they were flown to Ellington Air Force Base near here for a joyful reunion this evening with their families and a warm welcome from a crowd of about 350, mostly space workers and fellow astronauts. |
c670cj
Member Posts: 20
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: Jul 2016
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posted 03-23-2021 04:09 PM
Neither here nor there, and far be it from me to question veracity of the New York Times.
All I can tell you is what I saw and personally witnessed, as confirmed by my two brothers just moments ago, who remember it just as I recounted things to you. For what its worth.
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moorouge
Member Posts: 2484
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 03-23-2021 04:09 PM
I'm at a loss as to where the notion of a strike came from. There was no mention of it in contemporary reports of the flight as I'm sure I would have mentioned it in my review published in 1975. There were reports of crew nausea, of mistakes made and a rebuke for Carr when he did not disclose the fact that the crew had been sick, this only being discovered when a data dump was reviewed on the ground. No mention of a strike or anything resembling one though. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46208
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-23-2021 04:15 PM
According to David Hitt (cS member and co-author of "Homesteading Space"), the story of the strike may have originated from Henry SF Cooper's 1976 book, "A House in Space." Cooper was a writer who worked to make spaceflight accessible and exciting to the public, and as a result things were sometimes ... oversimplified. This is one.Four years later after Cooper's book, in 1980, the Harvard Business Review published "A Strike in Space" about Skylab as a case study. quote:
Originally posted by c670cj:
All I can tell you is what I saw and personally witnessed...
Maybe you are recalling his coming home from medical tests on a later day? In his authorized biography by David Shayler, Carr recalls the crowd at Ellington numbering 500 and the Air Force Band playing. Chris Kraft was also there, who is quoted as then saying to the crew: You guys did a super job. These guys and myself may never see that record broken in space. It will be a long time before someone stays that long in space and done as great a job as they have done. |
c670cj
Member Posts: 20
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: Jul 2016
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posted 03-23-2021 04:36 PM
Of course, for a more definitive answer, I'm sure there are many family members still around. Mr. Carr had six kiddos who I'm sure could be found for comment. Mr. Pogue had three (also a great guy). |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46208
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-23-2021 05:22 PM
Well, in the meantime, via Retro Space Images, here is a photo of Kraft and the Skylab 4 crew with their wives at Ellington: |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1629
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 03-23-2021 06:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by c670cj:
Well, Christopher C. Kraft Jr. sure interpreted it that way, Ed, and his interpretation was what mattered.
What you saw provides you no insight in the way Kraft felt.Can you tell us exact day you saw Carr arrive? The mutiny has been reputed by the crew, flight controllers, JSC management, etc. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2701
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 03-23-2021 07:02 PM
When I met Pogue the first time, I had the book "A House in Space" for him to sign. I confess I did not know the details of the so called "mutiny" just what I had read in that book. His words to me were that he would sign it but did not like or agree with some fact about his mission as reported in the book. As I later learned I understand his disdain for that account of their mission. I still feel it is a good read but it does hype up that situation in my opinion. |
plomaris1
New Member Posts: 5
From:
Registered: Feb 2016
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posted 03-24-2021 08:18 AM
I find it curious the repeated use of "Mr." Carr when he was in fact an active-duty Lt. Colonel in the USMC. As stated previously, the NASA car could have been dropping him off from some other event, such as debriefing or a medical test. It appears that there is ample print and photographic evidence that the crew was in fact welcomed home properly.That being said, Chris Kraft was known to play the blame game and hold grudges (e.g., Scott Carpenter, Walt Cunningham). |
Skylon
Member Posts: 304
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 03-24-2021 10:20 AM
I think another element that adds to this myth is the fact that none of the crew flew again. However, that is difficult to point to as evidence of anything since there were no flight opportunities after Skylab 4. But I think any "bad blood" didn't exist because Michael Cassutt's biography of George Abbey suggests he respected Ed Gibson, and brought him back to the Astronaut Office. It seems like Abbey would have had no issue assigning him to a flight, but Gibson wanted to fly another space station type, long duration mission, and it was clear that was not in NASA's "near-future" so he left. Really, the failure to report the bouts of space-sickness early in the mission were what the crew was criticized by NASA for. As I remember Al Shepard radioed up to them that it was a "serious error of judgement" and reminded Jerry Carr of it again, after splashdown. |
Michael Cassutt
Member Posts: 367
From: Studio City CA USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-25-2021 07:55 PM
Since I've been name-checked, thought I'd weigh in — yes, the "mutiny" is overblown in some version of Skylab history, but there were indeed folks at JSC who had moments of unhappiness with the crew for even a temporary work stoppage. Kraft heads the list. Abbey is on it. But it wasn't a fatal error, just a, hey, we're on the last substantive US mission for the foreseeable future, let's maximize efforts. Everyone understood that the crew was being pressed and there was, in the higher levels of JSC (no matter what Cunningham said) no real damage. Every crew had its moments, or so I hear. Yes, Abbey thought Gibson to be outstanding and wanted him to fly Spacelab-2. |
Dwight
Member Posts: 595
From: Germany
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 05-07-2021 05:02 PM
Please be sure to not overlook the the multi-award winning film "Searching for Skylab" in dealing with the false mutiny story. Emily Carney, who has written extensively about the mutiny myth, discusses the events leading to the propogartion of the storyWe uncovered film and audio which did several things: - Confirmed that Bill Pogue's space sickness coverup by the crew was indeed given a reprimand by Al Shepard on the open mike. This audio is to be heard only in the film "Searching for Skylab".
- No evidence of a strike was located on the day suggested as the one where the alleged strike took place. Indeed a live press conference telecast with Dr Kohoutek took place. Additionally a call to the crew by Deke Slayton was made whereby Deke apologizes for the ground "sandbagging" the crew, and that if the "...mission keeps on going the way it's going, why it will be one the best missions we've ever seen."
- Film of a press conference which features Bill Schneider stating to a reporter when asked if the crew were "unethusiastic," by replying "those are your reports, not ours. This crew is very enthusiastic. We have no problem with them whatsoever."
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