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Author
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Topic: Remembering Apollo 17 (Dec. 7-19, 1972)
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Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 357
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-11-2023 10:46 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
I have to accept the awful conclusion that the BBC did show live coverage of the Apollo 17 launch...
Coming back to this after a while. I got in touch with James Burke who told me: "Alas I can't say if the BBC covered the launch live. At the Cape Patrick and I did the job 'live' but what was happening back in UK we didn't know." So the evidence for whether it was broadcast live on BBC1 in the early morning is still circumstantial. I've reached out to the guy who made the reel to reel tape recording of the BBC coverage which is on YouTube to ask if he can recall whether he recorded it at 5am "live" or later that morning when the scheduled show was broadcast. |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4552
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-12-2023 04:19 AM
I’m sure the launch was covered live by the BBC. I recall watching it until the delay at T minus 30. When we realised the launch was going to be few hours….my parents sent me to bed. I had school the next morning.
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Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 357
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-13-2023 08:59 AM
So you didn't see it live on TV Rick? Did your parents? I'm pretty sure I did, i.e. that BBC1 came back on air for it (or stayed on air through the hold) but I can't 100% prove it. The audio recording of James Burke commentating on the launch is on YouTube and his words suggest it was shown live. A few other people online also say they saw it live. But James Burke didn't know for sure and the BBC History Manager couldn't help. The BBC Archives aren't responding to personal research requests, so I can't check the transmission logs. I've reached out to the guy who made the recording to see if he can recall if he taped a live broadcast at 5am or if it was the scheduled programme which showed a "live replay" later that morning. I'd love to know for sure. On edit: The Radio Times blurb for the 2.30 am launch programme says: The last minutes of the countdown before the last manned mission to the moon lifts off from Cape Kennedy for the mountains of Taurus Littrow. James Burke and Patrick Moore report the spectacular night launch live from the pad at Cape Kennedy. Launch due: 02.53 GMTProducer: Tam Fry
Producer: Stuart Harris
Editor: Michael Bukht
Executive Producer: Richard Francis And for the 12.15pm programme later in the day: Highlights of the last launch of an Apollo mission to the Moon - the dramatic moments of last night's spectacular blast-off... Introduced from Cape Kennedy by James Burke. Stuart Harris and Tam Fry are alive and contactable, so here's hoping they reply. |
Axman
Member Posts: 315
From: Derbyshire UK
Registered: Mar 2023
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posted 12-13-2023 09:55 AM
I'm afraid that even if Stuart Harris and/or Tam Fry reply to you, that you still won't know the answer because even they are only human.Both my brother and I 'watched' the event, in the same household, at the same time. We have completely different memories of what we'd seen and when we saw it: I strongly believe a "delayed live" broadcast took place in the very late morning, whereas my brother recalls it happening continuously throughout the night. We need a source more reliable than human memory, but I don't think we have one - not for the timing of the Apollo 17 BBC transmission at least. |
c670cj
Member Posts: 28
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: Jul 2016
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posted 12-13-2023 10:49 AM
Saw Apollo 17 takeoff live at the Cape. We were friends of the Evans in El Lago and believe me, it was it quite the experience seeing your neighbor launched to the moon rising up atop 'the midnight sun'. Additionally, we got to see it out in the Cape's swamps south of the Pad after having been moved by NASA security from our VIP viewing spot due to the 'hold' near the end of the countdown (which changed the trajectory of the Saturn as the earth and moon continued to move). Ended up watching it with the cast of the old series 'Gunsmoke' on the lid of an old dumpster outside one of the abandoned USAF green and white barracks buildings. What a nite! What an era! |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 357
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-13-2023 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Axman:
I'm afraid that even if Stuart Harris and/or Tam Fry reply to you, that you still won't know the answer because even they are only human.
Tam Fry has replied as follows: I can recall that it was a night launch but that's about it: I am quite sure however that BBC's Transmission Logs would have the detail you are searching for. Since we did not know at the time how long the delay would be, I suspect we went off air and left it to News to cover the event in the morning. I cannot believe that James etc talked through the night since we would have used up all our resources to cover the planned lift-off. Sadly the transmission logs are in the BBC Archives, which doesn't accept personal research requests (nor give public access). |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3658
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 12-29-2023 05:04 PM
I think this demonstrates the problems with trying to remember things that happened 50 years ago. To address Rick's point, yes: the BBC most definitely provided live coverage up to the T-30 seconds cut-off and for some time (I don't remember how long) after it. They then DID "shut down for the night" and I transferred my attention to BBC radio.James Burke and Patrick Moore certainly provided "live" coverage of the resumed countdown and launch several hours later (and I have an extract from that coverage in a mid-70s documentary) but as James Burke points out, he doesn't know whether his live report was actually being SHOWN live back in the UK. Because the Apollo 17 EVAs were taking place late at night (UK time) the BBC only showed the early parts "live" and transmitted highlights the next morning. As Captain Apollo confirms, they did the same for the launch, but I didn't see the 12.15pm launch highlights programme because I was in school by then. The quote from the BBC's Tam Fry certainly rings true: "I cannot believe that James [Burke] talked through the night since we would have used up all our resources..." I wrote to James Burke about the TV coverage (before the mission) and he told me that live transmissions through the night were far too expensive, so the BBC recorded the EVAs then transmitted the edited highlights back to London for transmission during the next day. Less satellite time, much cheaper. They may have done the same with the launch. The bottom line is: I don't know. I can't say the BBC TV coverage wasn't back on the air live around 5.30am, because I was concentrating on listening to the radio coverage. If someone definitively remembers watching resumed live BBC TV of the launch, as it happened, at 5.33am (not the highlights shown hours later at 12.15pm) I can't dispute that....but I note Axman's account that he and his brother both watched the launch but cannot agree whether it was at 5.33am or hours later. I would simply add that the BBC did not broadcast continuously from cut-off to the eventual launch. They definitely shut down for the night. The only question which apparently still remains open is whether they later resumed an expensive "live" transmission for the benefit of what would have been a tiny audience of very sleepy space enthusiasts. |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 357
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-30-2023 05:51 AM
Agreed. However, the BBC Transmission Logs would provide the definitive answer, but like most of the BBC Written Archive, they are closed to the public (aka the license fee payers). Someone with official enough research capacity, or an employee of the BBC, might be able to get in and find out. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3658
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 12-30-2023 04:07 PM
Intriguing though this issue may be for us, I suspect the people who would have the authority to check the BBC Transmission Log would not consider it important enough to bother! |
Axman
Member Posts: 315
From: Derbyshire UK
Registered: Mar 2023
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posted 12-31-2023 06:57 AM
Being very intrigued by this thread, I made some enquiries of a friend who used to work for the BBC. She has told me that, as far as she is aware, transmission logs from the period in question are not in a digital format, they are literally in log books (plural, as each transmitter had a log), and that they are not easily decipherable to the layperson — they need some considerable specialist knowledge to interpret any meaningful information from them. Basically, she says they are not like an official version of a Radio Times TV Listings, but are full of jargon and technical terms. And, to top it all, she also thinks that they are not kept as part of the Written Archives at Caversham, the Sound Archive at Perivale, the BFI archives, nor part of the British library holdings either in London or Yorkshire... so locating them would be your first but not only problem. On edit: ...however all is not lost. I have another friend who had a Revox A77 reel to reel tape recorder back then. He has an extensive audio collection from the period, mostly John Peel but he was a space-nut too and thinks he recorded Apollo 17. He utilised the four track recording ability and one track was his voice comments at time of recording, so he's going to check. We'll have to wait though, he is in hospital after breaking his pelvis and femur in a fall. I'll keep you posted when I know more. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3658
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 12-31-2023 02:48 PM
Ouch! Obviously he has greater priorities at the moment, but in due course he will obviously need to distinguish between an audio recording from BBC TV and an audio recording from BBC Radio 2. (That shouldn't be difficult: I have an audio recording of James Burke's TV commentary during the original launch attempt, then the audio recording of the Radio 2 launch commentary several hours later. The voices are quite different.) But even if he hears James Burke's voice, will it be clear whether the launch recording was actually live, or the recording of a broadcast made 6 or 7 hours later?(I suspect at this point, U.S. readers - if any - are asking: 'What on Earth are these people wittering on about?') |
Axman
Member Posts: 315
From: Derbyshire UK
Registered: Mar 2023
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posted 01-02-2024 04:46 AM
He tells me that all his recordings have a intro by him (and any comments throughout) stating such things as date, time, source, wavelength, qsl, (ending, required edits) etc on the 4th track.I visited him last night and he has an operation scheduled for this morning, so if all goes well, we might have an answer later this week... |
Axman
Member Posts: 315
From: Derbyshire UK
Registered: Mar 2023
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posted 01-04-2024 10:47 AM
I sat up with George fetchng him various boxes until we hit the one we needed. But then the tape broke, and we've had to wait until his grandson located his splice machine, a very frustrating 24 hours!Anyway, George has a full recording of the night. He started out with Radio 2, but then tried BBC TV because the radio channel had static interference, and when they (BBC tv) closed down switched over to American Forces in Europe Longwave, which is audible but quavery throughout. As the countdown resumed, George tried the TV again but it was "full of fuzz" before switching again to Radio 2, where he has commentary up until 6.03am when he switched off. I think that's fairly good evidence that the BBC tv was off-air at the launch. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3658
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-04-2024 11:08 AM
I admire his zeal in looking into this, and wish him a full recovery. Based on what you say, I probably needn't beat myself up for thinking I missed live TV coverage of the launch. Sounds like I didn't. |
Watts Way
New Member Posts: 9
From: St. Louis, MO, USA
Registered: Mar 2023
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posted 01-04-2024 12:26 PM
Wow! Reading through these posts takes one back in time. I recall driving from St. Louis back to Cocoa Beach to watch the liftoff. We were on a causeway for the launch, and I recall my dad saying it was bright enough for night baseball or reading the paper.A whole different experience than when we watched all of the Mercury and Gemini liftoffs earlier in the decade. For those, they let us out of school (Freedom 7 Elementary in Cocoa Beach) to go over to the beach to watch the launches. I recall eventually hearing those liftoffs, but we were so far away, it took a little while to get to us. For Apollo 17, on the other hand, it was immediate in-your-face ground-shaking thunder. Unbelievable... |
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