Author
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Topic: Apollo 17: 'Double helmet' in White Room
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ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 12-08-2011 01:22 PM
I was interested to see in this photo that Gene Cernan appears to be wearing a clear helmet within a clear helmet. Is the outer one the LEVA helmet minus its protective outer covering and visor? I don't recall ever having noticed that before. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4208 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-08-2011 02:18 PM
I don't know the technical specifics about this helmet arrangement but I have seen similar shots from earlier Apollo missions (most memorably Apollo 9), typically during suiting up. I think it is simply a protective outer visor designed to prevent the bubble helmet from being inadvertently scratched prior to flight. |
PeterO Member Posts: 402 From: North Carolina Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-08-2011 04:45 PM
I think it may be an artifact, not a double helmet. If it was a double helmet, the blue part of the helmet behind the head would not extend to the outer helmet, but would stop at the inner one.The Astronaut Hall of Fame has an Apollo bubble helmet that visitors can try on, and as I recall, the plastic was quite thick, at least a quarter inch. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4208 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-08-2011 04:52 PM
Check out Apollo 9 image 69-H-403. It shows the already scratched protective visor quite clearly. |
heng44 Member Posts: 3413 From: Netherlands Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-09-2011 09:03 AM
It is a protective cover, which is open at the rear. |
nasamad Member Posts: 2141 From: Essex, UK Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-09-2011 10:46 AM
The photo linked by Rick shows Jim McDivitt wearing the protective cover over his bubble helmet, it is a different style to the Apollo 17 image. The other style was more open to the rear and attached with either velcro straps or just via a friction fit (its hard to tell as the tabs are coloured) as seen more clearly here. |
ringo67 Member Posts: 181 From: Seekonk, Mass., USA Registered: May 2003
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posted 12-09-2011 09:23 PM
Amazing, I never knew about the protective cover.It's kind of nice to find out something new about the Apollo program after all these years. |
DG27 Member Posts: 178 From: USA Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 12-10-2011 05:45 AM
In addition to pad operations, the Helmet Shield was also used during flight to protect the helmet bubble from scratches when the crew moved around in the cabin as mentioned in this thread discussing the Apollo 1 visor shield.When moving around in the Apollo cabin, fully suited, it was easy to bump the helmet into part of the metal structure of the cabin. The last thing they wanted was to have to land the lunar module or walk around on the lunar surface while trying to look around a gash on the helmet bubble in the direct line of sight. So the Helmet Shield was used to protect the helmet when in the cabin. The Helmet Shield was removed when the EVA visor assembly was installed over the helmet. The Helmet Shield slips (snaps) over the bubble helmet from the front, and has a large clearance hole on the side for the feed port so the feed port is accessible with the shield installed on the helmet. The black areas around the rear opening (and on the tabs of the earlier type shield) are rubber and felt spacer pads which help position and hold the shield on the pressure helmet bubble. The shield is shaped so that its inside surface does not touch the outer surface of the pressure bubble in any of the field of view areas. This prevents scuffing that would occur if the shield were to rub against the helmet bubble. |
328KF Member Posts: 1251 From: Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 12-12-2011 10:57 AM
Were they removed prior to flight or kept on? When I first saw this thread, Bill Anders' funny story about the Apollo 8 launch came to mind.During the separation of the first stage, his arms and hands were slung out in front of him. At ignition of the S-II, one of them snapped back and his metal wrist ring left a big gash across his bubble helmet. He was pretty embarrassed that the damage would be perceived as a rookie badge by his crewmates, until they got to orbit and saw that Borman and Lovell both had gashes on their helmets as well. So I wonder if 8 had the shields or not, and on which mission they started using them. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1051 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-21-2011 02:26 PM
Apollo 11 helmets had the "Jim McDivitt protective cover model" or the Apollo 17 model? |
Kocmoc Member Posts: 33 From: Washington, DC USA Registered: May 2005
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posted 12-22-2011 10:48 AM
There is no protective helmet. The halo is an artifact of the photography of the polycarbonate shell and the overhead lighting. |
nasamad Member Posts: 2141 From: Essex, UK Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-22-2011 12:50 PM
I beg to differ on your assessment on the halo on the Cernan photo. The diffraction of the structure of the white room seen through the helmet(s) implies two separate layers with a significant gap between them. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 12-22-2011 01:22 PM
Were these protective covers flown on the mission or were they removed once the astronaut was strapped in for launch? I've been assuming they didn't fly on the mission and were only used to protect the helmet during pre-flight activities. But perhaps my assumption is wrong. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4208 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-22-2011 02:44 PM
quote: Originally posted by nasamad: I beg to differ on your assessment on the halo on the Cernan photo...
I would concur with Adam's assessment of the protective helmet. Definitely two layers.I own an Apollo bubble helmet shell and I cannot replicate any lighting conditions that produce the illusion suggested. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-22-2011 06:00 PM
It looks like Dave Scott is wearing a helmet shield in Apollo 15 photo 71-H-1188 taken on launch day. You can see a gap between the shield and the neck ring. |
nasamad Member Posts: 2141 From: Essex, UK Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-23-2011 04:32 PM
Strangely I can't seem to find any Apollo 11 shots online showing the helmet cover.Looking at video of the Apollo 15 suit-up and ingress the covers are easily visible as Irwin and Worden suit up. |
DG27 Member Posts: 178 From: USA Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 12-24-2011 05:18 AM
I have done some additional research which modifies my earlier post regarding in-flight use of the helmet shield. In my earlier post I implied that each Apollo crew member had a helmet shield during flight. In looking at the Flight Equipment Inventory List for the Apollo missions, I noticed that only missions using a lunar module had helmet shields listed on the inventory sheet. Further, the list only shows one serialized shield for use by both the commander and the lunar module pilot. So if this is correct, the lunar module pilot and commander had to share the shield. So I went and dug out the A7L Familiarization and Operations Manual. It describes the helmet shield as a "...protective device that protects the pressure helmet assembly against scratches nicks, and cracks during transfer between the Command Module and the Lunar Module." This explains why shields are not listed for Apollo 7 and 8 as they did not use the lunar module. Since the Flight Equipment List only shows one shield for each of the subsequent missions, this implies the lunar module pilot and commander had to share the shield. This means that after one crew traversed the tunnel into the lunar module, he had to pass the helmet shield back down the tunnel for the other crew member to use. For ground operations it would seem prudent to use a shield to protect the helmets during command module ingress. Flight day photos (or video/film) would help to clarify what was done for each mission. I can think that for Apollo 11, the shields may have been installed later for command module ingress (if used at all) so as not to affect the historic photos of the crew walkout. (This is speculation on my part). |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 12-24-2011 07:57 AM
Since the Apollo 17 crew ingress photos in the White Room show both Cernan and Evans wearing the helmet shield, albeit in different pictures, would that therefore imply that Cernan wore it while getting in and then passed it out to Evans? |
nasamad Member Posts: 2141 From: Essex, UK Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-24-2011 10:45 AM
The Apollo 17 suiting up images show all three crewmembers wearing the protectors at the same time.Apollo 15 suitup video shows all three crewmembers donning helmets with protectors, and ingress shows all three entering the spacecraft with them on. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 06-17-2018 03:10 AM
I found this thread while looking for something else, and decided to dig deeper. I found these Apollo 12 and Apollo 13 training photos that show the helmet shield, and reference to in the Apollo EMU Operations Handbook [CSD-A-789] here and here. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-17-2018 08:04 AM
A helmet shield and a pressure helmet can be seen on the table near Vance Brand in ASTP photo KSC-75P-340 dated July 3, 1975. |