Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 09-19-2005 10:01 AM               

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In yours opinion, if in 1970 instead cancelling the last three Apollo missions, NASA and Us Congress had authorized two news lunar landings which crews would have been named for the normal three-mission-ahead crew rotation?

Apollo 18, July 1973 - Gordon, Brand, Schmitt
Apollo 19, December 1973 - Haise, Pogue, Carr
Apollo 20, July 1974 - Roosa, Lind, Lousma

And after? Apollo 21, December 1974 - ?
Apollo 22, July 1975 - ?

Posts: 187
From: W.Sussex United Kingdom
Registered: May 2003

posted 09-19-2005 02:22 PM               

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Apollo 21 would have used the two remaining unflown group 5 astronauts, and I would go for Ed Mitchell as CDR so:

Mitchell (CDR)
McCandless (CMP)
Weitz (LMP)

Apollo 22 is more tricky. I imagine if Apollo missions had continued Al Bean would have stayed with Apollo rather than over to Skylab. The remaining group 4 astronauts would all stick with Skylab so I see the LMP as being a scientist from group 6. The CMP should still have been a pilot astronaut, so someone from group 7. I would go for

Bean (CDR)
Hartsfield (CMP)
Allen (LMP)

Posts: 24
From: Long Island City, NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 09-19-2005 04:05 PM               

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So are you saying you would have a rookie command a lunar landing mission?

No disrespect but I believe even at that jucture a Lunar mission needed to have at least one member of the crew with at least one previous (space) flight under their belt.

Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 09-19-2005 09:04 PM               

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If the program had gone into that many flights, I think it would've been good to give Lovell another crack at a landing mission. He certainly deserved another chance to make a landing, not having retired from NASA until the Apollo program was over. Even though he said 13 would be his last flight, what are the chances he would have turned down a later flight if asked to command it?

If there was an Apollo 21 or 22 circa 1974-75, then maybe the timing would have allowed the crew that manned ASTP (Stafford, Slayton, and Brand) to man a lunar landing mission instead.

Posts: 1217
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 09-20-2005 09:33 AM               

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Unless I'm mistaken, Bean and Conrad both left Apollo for AAP after their Apollo 12 flight, when the rotation would have given either (or both) the possibility of 18. Had they wanted a shot at another lunar flight, they could have stayed in Apollo.

Bean has said they wanted to step aside and give other guys a shot at going to the moon [specifically thinking that it would give Gordon his shot to command a ride down to the surface] and thought Skylab sounded like a fun new adventure.

So if your scenario involves going ahead with both Apollo and AAP, I might count those two out.

Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 09-20-2005 11:20 PM               

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I'm under the impression Lovell announced his retirement from flight before 13.

As far as guys making a second trip to the Moon, what about John Young from Group 2? Since he was senior and still on flight status wouldn't he be a lock on any lunar mission he wanted?

By staying in the rotation he would have backed 19 up and commanded 22.

Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

Posts: 1049
From: County Down, Nothern Ireland
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 09-21-2005 03:58 AM               

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What strikes me is that if Pete Conrad would have flown Apollo 20 more than likely that mission had the potential to be the most successful of all the Apollo landings as Conrad would have been amazing at instructing his crew on little things to look out for. So it had the potential to be like having two veterans on the surface instead of just one.

Time would be much better utilised as well as Pete would know how to use it better plus as this would be his second time out he would be mostly used to the surface. Wasn't it he who said "He could would out there all day"?

I do agree though that John Young was a prime candidate. Unfortunately we will never know.

Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002

posted 09-21-2005 09:00 AM               

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I truly believe that the Apollo 11-17 command module pilots would have gotten first crack at a command before they recycled any other moonwalker — with the exception of Haise, who missed his shot.

You can eliminate Swigert (who was Deke's first choice for ASTP) and Worden because of the (then) Apollo 15 cover scandal and Collins had already said that he didn't want a command. So, that leaves Gordon (who was already on Apollo 18), Haise, Roosa, Mattingly and Evans [19, 20, 21 and 22].

Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

Posts: 24
From: Long Island City, NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

Posts: 24
From: Long Island City, NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002

Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 09-27-2005 03:21 PM               

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Let's not forget Deke Slayton's return to flight status.

Wouldn't he have commanded a landing? I've read he was as good a pilot as any of the Seven including Shepard and he'd built up a lot of good will with his work at NASA.

It didn't seem like Conrad, McDivitt, Stafford, Schirra etc were especially eager to fly again, even on a landing mission. Certainly McDivitt could have had 15 and Stafford 16 had they wanted. Conrad's later comments about his Moon landing gave me the impression he was happy to step aside for other pilots on Lunar flights even though he took Skylab (and considered it the acme of his career).

I don't know if there was an etiquette about lunar missions where commanders would "graduate" and be given emeritus status. Conrad and Stafford flew again but on non-lunar missions and it seems that CMPs (Young) and LMPs (Cernan) would move into the CDR couch before a previous CDR would land again.

Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002