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Author
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Topic: Apollo 13: Houston, we've had a problem here
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MCroft04
Member Posts: 1647
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-20-2005 11:55 AM
   
Okay, who really made the initial distress call when Apollo 13 first experienced problems? Was it Jim Lovell or Jack Swigert? I've read several different versions and am not sure which to believe. In most of the recent Apollo 13 anniversary press coverage Jim Lovell has been attributed with these words "Houston, we have a problem." I just read a story on CNN that says Jack Swigert made the famous call to mission control with these words, "Houston, we've had a problem," a slightly different version. Who knows for sure? |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3117
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 04-20-2005 12:14 PM
From every account I've read, Swigert said "Houston, we've had a problem", and Lovell then repeated the same words a few moments later when Houston replied."Houston we have a problem" is one of most famous phrases never spoken. Even space collectors who should know better still ask for Lovell to inscribe this version on signed photos. |
sfurtaw
Member Posts: 104
From: Saginaw, MI USA
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-20-2005 12:53 PM
I found an Apollo 13 transcript, where CDR is Commander Jim Lovell and CC is CAPCOM Jack Lousma: CDR - I believe we've had a problem here.CC - This is Houston. Say again, please. CDR - Houston, we've had a problem. We've had a MAIN B BUS UNDERVOLT. There is also a handwritten note on the left hand margin which appears to say: Per Jack Riley - Swigert reported trouble. Per Ivan - Swigert first transmission, Lovell second. While I am not sure if I have the names correct, this supports Chris' (spaced out) post. Does anyone know if these names are right, and who they are? |
Ryan Walters
Member Posts: 78
From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 04-20-2005 12:59 PM
I saw the same article too. But if you listen to the transmission from the spacecraft you hear Jack Swigert say something to the effect that "we've got a problem here." Then, a few seconds later, after the capcom says, "This is Houston. Say again please," Lovell says "Houston, we've HAD a problem." That's the way I've heard it anyway. |
KSCartist
Member Posts: 2913
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 04-20-2005 01:17 PM
In a letter Jim Lovell wrote to me when my hometown was honoring Jack Swigert in 1983, he states that Swigert was the first one to contact Houston. Capcom responded with "Say again please?" Then Lovell responds with "Houston we have a problem."I think the movie got this part right. |
Sy Liebergot
Member Posts: 501
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 04-20-2005 01:21 PM
Gentlemen, I suggest that you listen to the CD that accompanies my book and you will be able to hear the actual words spoken and in the proper order. I've found that you can't always trust the transcripts. |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1647
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-20-2005 05:25 PM
Thanks Sy, I have your book and will pull the CD out tonight and listen carefully. The longer I live the more times I learn that one has to be careful believing what one reads. |
Sy Liebergot
Member Posts: 501
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 04-21-2005 07:05 PM
At the beginning of my lectures I play the actual mission audio, and state that "these are the actual words, not the ones uttered in the film." I then tell the audience that the words belong in a book titled, "I Didn't Say That!" Well, the book exists only in my imagination... |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3160
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-21-2005 07:37 PM
In case anyone is in any doubt, it was Jack Swigert who said: "Hey, we've got a problem here." Then Capcom at Houston said: "This is Houston, say again, please." Then Jim Lovell said: "Houston, we've had a problem."Note the past tense. (SOURCE: "Lost Moon" by Jim Lovell and Jeffrey Kluger, p. 95.) |
1201
New Member Posts: 2
From: UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 10-13-2007 11:15 AM
"Houston, we've had a problem here"I've always wondered whether this was just an off the cuff remark by Swigert or a pre-arranged code to report a catastrophic failure. The fact that Houston's reaction was "Say again please" suggests they knew he meant something serious and then Lovell repeats it word-for-word "Err Houston, we've had a problem" Anyone know? |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1940
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-13-2007 02:13 PM
Watching the Tom Hanks movie, I always thought that "Stand by one" was the pre-arranged code to report a catastrophic failure, since when "Lovell" says it during the TV broadcast, "Kranz" and the others perk up with concern. But later I noticed that "Stand by one, Houston" was used during other missions for regular requests for pauses. So instead of answering your question, I guess I'm asking if anyone else out there knows what the difference between "stand by" and "stand by one" is. |
micropooz
Member Posts: 1532
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 10-13-2007 07:02 PM
"Stand by" and "Stand by one" are interchangeable. "Stand by one" is the popular phrase in the control center. You say "stand by one" if a) you are too busy to respond immediately or b) you need to confer with others (like the rest of the crew on the airborne side, or other controllers on the control center side) before responding. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-14-2007 01:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 1201:
I've always wondered whether this was just an off the cuff remark by Swigert or a pre-arranged code to report a catastrophic failure.
I am fairly certain this was an off-the-cuff remark. Were this a scripted call-out, one would expect it to be much shorter and clearer, with no variation between "have" or "had". A scripted alert would, by design, not need to be repeated because there would be no way for the ground to know or expect that further communications would be possible. The crew was caught off-guard by the situation just as much as the ground was at the time. Swigert's call, followed by Lovell's repetition, came at a time when neither knew much more about the situation than that they had a problem. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-14-2007 06:59 PM
The stand by one comment Lovell made (not in the film) on the recording has him sounding a little irritated, probably because he knew it was Haise who popped the repress valve and he had done it before. So he requested the pause to make sure it was only Freddo as opposed to something else and probably to compose his thoughts (or give Fred a dirty look) before saying something he might have regretted on live TV."Stand by one" is just a quick version of "Can you hold on a minute?" |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1647
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 10-14-2007 07:08 PM
I've always wondered about the origin of the comment "We've had a problem" Where I come from people would say "We have a problem", meaning we had a problem and still have one. Using the past tense suggests to me that there is no longer a problem (at least that's the take from a kid who grew up in redneck Florida). |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-15-2007 07:41 AM
I think the reason why Swigert and Lovell used "had" as opposed to have is they considered it a temporary matter in passing. They thought it was a relatively small problem (a loud bang with a main bus B undervolt) with a quick solution as opposed to how big it became. The spacecraft was designed with quite a few backup systems, so there was no sense initially that they were still having a problem when those few seconds passed since the oxygen tank blew.It is also part of a pilot's training to file away the problems and focus on correcting them (if possible) or focusing on what is still good to help keep you flying. A pilot doesn't dwell on what is wrong, but rather what is still working since that is what helps to keep them alive. The full implication of what had transpired when the first transmission was made didn't become clear to either the flight crew or the ground controllers until Jim saw the oxygen venting from the service module. But even then, both Jim and Gene Kranz were thinking the mission could still be salvaged at that point. Which is why Jim said "We've just lost the moon" when Mission Control called up that they wanted two fuel cells shut down to hopefully stop the O2 leak. |
kr4mula
Member Posts: 642
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 10-15-2007 01:36 PM
Two points:Given the spontaneity of the event, I doubt either astronaut was thinking much about which tense to use, or the grammatical correctness of what they were saying. They heard a boom, felt the CM shake, and called it in. Perhaps if they felt the cabin venting or something like that, they might have instinctually used the present tense, otherwise they certainly didn't have the time or inclination to consider their words. Deconstructing the astronaut's rationale gives them way too much credit. Second point, along the lines of Sy's book suggestion (Words never spoken), Gene Kranz often admits that he never said "Failure is Not an Option," or at least not back then. Funny that two of NASA's three most quoted phrases (the other being "one small step") were made up for a movie. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-15-2007 02:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
Funny that two of NASA's three most quoted phrases (the other being "one small step") were made up for a movie.
An interesting point (although the "We Have a Problem" misquote was known and used long before the movie). Adding to your point, of course, The "One Small Step" phrase is often misquoted too, with the 'a' sometimes added, sometimes not... |
Sy Liebergot
Member Posts: 501
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 10-15-2007 05:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
An interesting point (although the "We Have a Problem" misquote was known and used long before the movie).
Francis, I am unaware that the Apollo 13 misquote "We have a problem" was known and used long before the movie. Can you point me to those sources? I've always believed that Ron Howard changed that report to the present tense, since that would be more dramatic than past tense.I strongly recommend that all you keepers of our space history (for which I am grateful) utilize the actual A/G audio and not a printed transcript for the real words. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-15-2007 10:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sy Liebergot:
Francis, I am unaware that the Apollo 13 misquote "We have a problem" was known and used long before the movie. Can you point me to those sources? I've always believed that Ron Howard changed that report to the present tense, since that would be more dramatic than past tense.
The misquote of the line to one using the present tense was not an invention of Ron Howard, but (source-wise) can be traced back at least as far as the 1974 Apollo 13 movie with the present-tense title "Houston, We've Got a Problem," and probably earlier.Howard, in his commentary for the movie, takes no special credit for that line when that part of the movie is playing. Present-tense (and always present-tense)versions, such as "Houston, we've got a problem" and "Houston, we have a problem," were widely used in the UK when I was growing up, as a humorous catchphrase for when something went wrong (locked out of a car, etc.). Very much like people misquote Shakespeare to the point where the misquote becomes better-known than the actual ("Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well," "Lead on, Macduff," etc.). |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-16-2007 03:16 PM
Or the infamous "Beam Me Up Scotty" which was never said in Star Trek or even "Play it Again Sam" which was never spoken in Casablanca. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3160
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-17-2007 07:44 PM
Strangely, when I asked Jim Lovell (London, March 2007) to sign a picture of the Apollo 13 service module with the words "Houston, we've had a problem!" he actually wrote "Houston, we have a problem!" Ididn't notice until I had passed by, and I hadn't the heart to go back and tell one of my greatest heroes that he had misquoted himself! (I assume he misheard me and was too polite, in his own mind, to correct me!) |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-18-2007 01:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
(I assume he misheard me and was too polite, in his own mind, to correct me!)
I wouldn't assume that, since I've seen Lovell write "Houston, we have a problem" on several other pieces. I suspect he writes the phrase made popular by the movie instead of the actual phrase...since that's what most people probably ask for. Gene Kranz never said "failure is not an option" either (until he titled his book), but is asked to sign it regularly by certain people. The origin of that phrase came about when Jerry Bostick was being interviewed by writers for their research for the Apollo 13 film. Jerry said something to effect that "we reviewed all of our options, and failure wasn't one of them." The lightbulb went on in the writer's head and he realized they had a perfect line for the Kranz character to say in the movie. |
Colin Anderton
Member Posts: 154
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 10-18-2007 07:23 AM
Swigert spoke in the past tense - Lovell's precise words were "Er, Houston, we have a problem. We've had a main B bus undervolt." |
astroborg
Member Posts: 203
From: Woodbridge, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-18-2007 10:28 AM
It goes back to 1970: NASA EP-76 is entitled: "Apollo 13 - Houston, we've got a problem" |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-18-2007 12:07 PM
Thanks, Rich - indeed, this page suggests that "We've got a problem" was how it was reported in a number of 1970 newspapers, including 14 April - so it seems that the past / present error goes back to the very beginning of covering the story. quote:
Originally posted by Colin Burgess:
Swigert spoke in the past tense - Lovell's precise words were
"Er, Houston, we have a problem"
I am not sure what you are basing that on. In this instance, I suggest that we take Sy's wise advice, further up in this thread - "I strongly recommend that all you keepers of our space history (for which I am grateful) utilize the actual A/G audio and not a printed transcript for the real words."The audio can be heard on links posted on this page and also this page - and there may be much clearer versions available. Both reports sound like "we've had" to my ears. |
Colin Anderton
Member Posts: 154
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 10-19-2007 01:24 PM
A thousand apologies - the old memory has started going. (It's all down, down, down, from here!)I've just pulled out my recording of the BBC coverage from that day, and played the relevant piece. Both Swigert and Lovell DEFINITELY speak in the past tense. I stand corrected. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-19-2007 01:37 PM
Not at all - this is, in fact, one of the things this website is a wonderful resource for, to discuss things like this. I can't tell you how many assumptions I have had which have been overturned by reading things here. For example, another famous space line, "Goldstone has the bird," which it seems also turns out to very probably be a later invention - I learned that here and was recently able to share that with another researcher who would otherwise have been unaware. |
Ironman
Member Posts: 66
From: England
Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 10-18-2015 11:28 AM
It seems I'm picking up this thread 8 years on but I read a mission transcript that went like this.Fred Haise - 'Okay, Houston?'
Jack Swigert (Talking over Fred Haise) - 'Hey, we've had a problem here.'
Jack Lousma (CAPCOM Houston) - 'This is Houston. Say again please.'
Jim Lovell - 'Houston, we've had a problem. We've had a main B bus undervolt.'
Jack Lousma (CAPCOM Houston) 'Roger. Main B undervolt. Stand by 13, we're looking at it.' I remember the misquote 'Houston, we have a problem' being used to refer to everyday mishaps as I was growing up in the 1970s, long before the Ron Howard movie. I guess people used the phrase in the present tense of their own particular crisis. |
robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 10-22-2015 08:49 AM
Going back to the, "...one small step for man", quote. I'm not so sure it was a misquote by Neil Armstrong because he did sometimes miss out the 'a' when he spoke. |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 678
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-22-2015 06:49 PM
From the Apollo 13 Flight Journal: 055:55:19 Swigert: Okay, Houston...055:55:19 Lovell: ...Houston... 055:55:20 Swigert: I believe we've had a problem here. [Pause.] 055:55:28 Lousma: This is Houston. Say again, please. 055:55:35 Lovell: Houston, we've had a problem. We've had a Main B Bus Undervolt. 055:55:42 Lousma: Roger. Main B Undervolt. [Long pause.] 055:55:58 Lousma: Okay, stand by, 13. We're looking at it. [Pause.] It would appear that Lovell and Swigert were trying to talk to Houston about the problem in the same instant at 55:55:19. |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 678
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-22-2015 07:03 PM
Now listening to the actual transmission, it appears that Swigert says: "OK Houston we've had a problem here."Then Lovell says, "Uh Houston we've had a problem." They both say "Houston we've had a problem" (past tense). |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 408
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 04-15-2017 10:16 AM
Washington Post story this morning on the Apollo 13 dialogue — 'Houston, we have a problem': The history of the iconic Apollo 13 misquote. The famous phrase has a backstory so good that it, of course, also turns out to be not quite true. On April 13, 1970, the Apollo 13 mission to the moon was rocked by an onboard explosion.The command module went dark. Earth was 200,000 miles away. An astronaut radioed mission control: "Houston, we have a problem." The phrase became a cultural touchstone. Sportscasters say it. Politicians say it. In books, movies, plays and music, it's shorthand for saying something has gone awry, sometimes terribly. Except it's wrong. Editor's note: Threads merged. |
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