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Author
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Topic: 333708742454: Moon dust and memorabilia
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MOL
Member Posts: 115
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 09-14-2020 03:31 PM
   
Did anyone else notice this auction which ended last night and included purported lunar soil? Why did it not even break $1000? Up for bidding: A fantastic lot of original NASA memorabilia from the heyday of American space exploration, given to or acquired by Francis J. Engel, Jr, at the time a senior man in the photography department. This lot includes: - A framed plaque commemorating the first manned moon mission, Apollo 8, with a medallion made from aluminum carried on the mission.
- A framed commemoration of STS-65, shuttle Columbia, with a flag commemorating the 25th anniversary of Apollo 11, which was flown aboard the shuttle during the mission.
- A framed, autographed, photograph portraying the launch of Apollo 17, inscribed and signed by the Apollo 17 astronaut crew, Gene Cernan, Ronald Evans, and Harrison Schmitt — this mission was the final time mankind has walked on the moon. "To Fran Engel - Our best wishes & sincere thanks - Gene Cernan Ron Evans Harrison Schmitt"
- A piece of Grumman/NASA lunar lander module outer skin/covering, acquired by Mr. Engel as a souvenir during the Apollo program.
- A small amount of moon dust, on adhesive tape. This dust covered the film containers which were brought back from the lunar surface and immediately developed after the mission's completion. Mr. Engel, who was in the photography department, surmised that this was lunar surface dust (later confirmed by talking to one of the astronauts) and saved some with a piece of scotch tape.
These pieces taken as a whole represent a fantastic slice of space exploration history, encompassing some of the most heroic and enduring accomplishments of the 20th century, if not all of world history. They were retained as treasured mementos of a career at NASA spanning decades, and will be a centerpiece of any collection.  
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Liembo
Member Posts: 668
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 09-14-2020 03:53 PM
I'd assume it had to do with lack of provenance for the moon dust? |
MOL
Member Posts: 115
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 09-14-2020 04:04 PM
Well there was certainly "circumstantial" provenance. Fran Engel worked at the JSC photo lab where another person, Terry Slezak, also worked, and also found ways to save moondust from film canisters using tape as we know from an auction in 2009, which had one of his tape pieces for sale and was halted by NASA.The only way of course to prove it is really of lunar origin is to have NASA prove it, and I suppose if one were to send it to JSC to do that, they will never get it back! |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4639
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-14-2020 04:20 PM
NASA doesn't have a monopoly on authentication of lunar soil samples. Most of the technical expertise to do so resides with other external institutions, some of which partnered with NASA. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44651
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-14-2020 04:35 PM
Regardless of where it could or would be tested, unless it originated from an astronaut's collection or the dust was lifted off an item that has clear deaccession paperwork (neither of which is stated to be the case in this situation), the moon dust-stained tape is contraband. Enough of these tape-lifted samples have surfaced over the years to establish that it was a popular self-created memento among those who worked with moon dust-exposed equipment. But, at the same time, enough of these samples have been successfully reclaimed by NASA that the eventual fate of any such example is likely to be the same. Maybe enough collectors now know this, leading to the lack of bids, or maybe it just went unnoticed being part of an otherwise fine memorabilia lot. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3127
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-15-2020 03:12 AM
The STS-65 flown flag is worth maybe $100, the Apollo 8 MFA medallion maybe $50, the Apollo 17 ISP perhaps $350. Total value $500.As discussed above the provenance of the moon dust is weak and its legality questionable at best. Despite that, you can be pretty sure that someone will have bought the lunar dust tape to cut it into tiny pieces to sell as 100% guaranteed moon dust. |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4258
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 09-15-2020 02:17 PM
For what it's worth, the orange foil lined material looks like a sample of Skylab sunshade fabric from the Scheldahl Corp. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3084
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-15-2020 04:14 PM
Yes, it's the Skylab parasol fabric, the same typed used by the SL-2 crew, and I pretty much agree with those comments made by Scott, Robert, and Chris about the moon dust possession and related issues. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 659
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-15-2020 06:47 PM
Oh man, I would love to take on the legal defense of anyone trying to sell a piece of tape like this. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1265
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 09-16-2020 04:50 AM
The legal costs to take on NASA would far exceed the value of the tape, assuming it is moon dust, and would not be worth the fight. Even the process by which one could privately verify that this is actually lunar dust is prohibitively expensive. In all, it simply wouldn't be worth the time, money, or effort. |
mf451
Member Posts: 67
From: NY, NY
Registered: Nov 2014
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posted 09-16-2020 06:50 AM
I was watching this auction and I had many of the same thoughts; I'm glad to know I wasn't alone! But, one question for the group: Does anyone know what that gray sticker/label is? That begins "Row No. 2"? I couldn't recognize that. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44651
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2020 09:29 AM
Based on its mention of "Meal A Thru Day Four," it appears to be a label from the food storage container noting the row with "Meal A" packages. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 659
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-16-2020 03:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rgarner:
In all, it simply wouldn't be worth the time, money, or effort.
Your Honor, my worthy colleague's points are well noted, but I refer the court to the 2001 precedent of Huntington v. Woods. |
mode1charlie
Member Posts: 1218
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 09-16-2020 04:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn:
For what it's worth, the orange foil lined material looks like a sample of Skylab sunshade fabric from the Scheldahl Corp.
Interesting. I have a 7x10" swatch of the same material*, which Rusty Schweickart gave my grandmother at the time of the ASTP launch. I showed it to Rusty at one of the ASF shows about 7 or 8 years ago to ask him if he could confirm that that was the type that was actually flown — he said he didn't remember. So this is the first time I've heard A. the name of the manufacturer, and B. an indication that this is the same or very similar material. [On edit: Robert pointed out to me that the eBay material appears in the photo to be stiffer than the material I have. It's hard to tell from the photo, but I tend to concur.]*Mine appears virtually identical, except that there is stitching every 2.5".  
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Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4258
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 09-16-2020 06:28 PM
Back in the day the Scheldahl Corp produced small samples of the sunshade material to media and such. Each was approximately 3 inches square with an image of Skylab and text printed on the silvered side. I have one here somewhere. |
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