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Topic: Coach's Corner: Neil Armstrong baseball signed at his house?
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californiabuyer
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posted 11-10-2006 11:30 AM
   
Newbie, wonderful and informative site!I came across this piece in an auction and I would like to share and get an opinion on. In the description: quote:
He is just that tough. So tough, we had to go to his reclusive house to get em' signed!
This comes with an LOA from STAT Authentication. Coach's Corner Sports Auctions have three other items in their auction signed by Armstrong as well, two baseballs (no scans) and a Life magazine at $80 with a few hours left. Now I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Armstrong and I can tell you that he was polite in denying me a signature. Opinions? Thank you,
Dave |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-10-2006 11:45 AM
Don't know if the first man on the Moon ever signed baseballs? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-10-2006 11:57 AM
There are a couple of signed baseballs that most who saw them thought they were real. At the very least, this ball's Armstrong signature was real. Regardless if the Coach's Corner Sports baseballs are real or fake, I would reject their purchase on principle. For someone to brag about trespassing and invading someone's privacy as a good thing is beyond me. Sometimes authenticity is not and should not be the most important consideration when deciding what to buy... |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 11-10-2006 12:03 PM
Two thoughts:(1) That they went to his house does nothing to convince me. I would suspect they'd be turned away. (2) Even if it WERE real, I'd stay far away from ANY baseball signed by a sharpie. That picture was taken fairly shortly after it was signed, as sharpie ink on a baseball bleeds terribly. Terribly - so much so that in 5 years it would be a blob. |
muirfield
Member Posts: 52
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 11-10-2006 12:22 PM
Hmmm, I'm no expert, and I can't speak for anyone else, but here are a couple of things that would factor into my decision.- Would I buy from an auction house that doesn't post clear scans/photos of their items? If I'm going to buy a Babe Ruth signed photo, I sure am not going to base it on a fuzzy photo. - I'm surprised that almost every single item has bids on it. This makes me uncomfortable, although I have no concrete reason why. - When I look at several different items, I don't get a good feeling about some of them. Again, nothing to back this up, but I just don't feel comfortable with the quality of many of the items. - Given what we know about Armstrong's signing habits, I'd be very surprised if he'd sign baseballs for someone bringing them by his door. That, coupled with everything else, I'd avoid this auction like the plague. Chris |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 11-10-2006 12:51 PM
I agree with Chris, besides, I just don't care for the Armstrong signature as it appears on the baseball. Only my opinion. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 11-10-2006 01:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by albatron:
(2) Even if it WERE real, I'd stay far away from ANY baseball signed by a sharpie. That picture was taken fairly shortly after it was signed, as sharpie ink on a baseball bleeds terribly. Terribly - so much so that in 5 years it would be a blob.
I agree with this statement, for the most part, but I have one exception, I have a baseball signed by Richard Gordon @ 20 years ago (I tried to get him to use another pen but he was in a hurry) that still looks the same as when he signed it. But other than that, every other sharpie signed ball that I've seen goes bad very quickly. |
AstronautBrian
Member Posts: 287
From: Louisiana
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 11-10-2006 01:18 PM
I'm not going to pass judgement on this signature in regards to its authenticity. But my thoughts are this: If Mr. Armstrong does not sign at public events, what makes you think he would want to if you went knocking on his front door? If anything, he ought to give them a right hook a la Buzz (or call the cops!)------------------
"I am sui generis; just leave it at that." - Huey P. Long |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-10-2006 01:28 PM
Reassuring to read how cSers think alike... |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-10-2006 02:20 PM
I would pass on this item too...Tahir |
Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 11-10-2006 10:57 PM
Like everyone else, I have no doubt that this Armstrong baseball is NOT real. As far as the auction house itself goes, lets just say that Coaches Corner is one of the least respected auction houses when it comes to authenticity. Talk to anyone in the sports memorabilia industry and they will tell you to stay far far away. |
413 is in
Member Posts: 628
From: Alexandria, VA USA
Registered: May 2006
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posted 11-11-2006 01:18 AM
Let me preface this by saying that I am by no means an expert, but I believe that this baseball is the real deal. The signature and its rather dubious provenance, however, is another matter entirely. Caveat emptor.------------------
b i l l |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-11-2006 01:32 AM
If this was a home run ball I caught from the stands, I'd take one look at this signature and throw it back onto the field. |
mensclub10
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posted 11-11-2006 08:30 AM
Let me say that I agree with Kurt about the credibility of Coaches Corner. I don't know exactly what percentage of their signed items are authentic but their bogus stuff would fill MSG. However, that being said, my two nephews sent Neil Armstrong two baseballs in the late 80's early 90's and received them back signed by Neil. So they do exist. You just don't see many authentic ones ever for sale. Anyone care to give an estimate as to value? Dave |
californiabuyer
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posted 11-11-2006 12:09 PM
I contacted Coach's Corner and while the ad assumes that "they" got the signature themselves, in fact they told me in an e-mail that "It comes from a great consignor who deals mainly in historic signatures by presidents, astronauts, and other historical figures". So it is assumed that the original consignor walked up to Neil's house and obtained the signature, not the auction house itself. The auction is all over (I believe it ended last night) and this ball sold for $284. The Life magazine signed by Armstrong sold for $147. The other two signed baseballs signed by Armstrong sold for $74 and $61. The $61 baseball was on a 2001 World Series baseball, and didn't Neil stop signing roughly ten years ago? Why would you get a 2001 baseball signed anyways? I made several phone calls after the post.In a collecting age where people try and blend their passions, non-celebrity baseballs are common and Neil has signed dozens and dozens of baseballs from what I understand. The last public record of a baseball in signed form from a reputable catalog company that I saw was Lelands auction house sold one three years ago for $1,200 and one source told me that he knows of two being sold around the $1,400-1,500 range. In noting this, Coach's Corner sold a Martin Luther King Jr. signed baseball for $746. They also sold a Michael Collins auto 1966 "Space" Life magazine for $30 and a flag hand signed by Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins brought in $223. This is in fact a monthly auction and the stuff, all of it, seems to have been sold very reasonably. A very small fraction of what it should if these same items were in the hands of say... rrauction, based on a quick comparison of items in the "past auction" option on their web site. Thank you in advance for all the help. This is a rather amazing community filled with well educated opinions and people who have a passion for the Space program. Best,
Dave |
ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 11-11-2006 05:08 PM
According to the auction, several baseballs were signed by Armstrong at the same time. I can just see the conversation at the Armstrong front door now: "Of course I'll make an exception and sign those baseballs for you. And what do you intend doing with them? Selling them straight away in online auctions for profit? Sure - no problem!" |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 11-12-2006 05:15 PM
And then there's this one... |
Go4Launch
Member Posts: 542
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 11-12-2006 11:20 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't "get" the whole astronaut-signed baseball thing. Never have, never will (other than the 1963 ball Robert mentions).I'm hoping for a moon rock signed by Willy Mays, Hank Aaron and Ted Williams... |
ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 11-13-2006 06:04 AM
Hey, Go4, this is your lucky day - I have one here and I'm just waiting for the ink to dry!  Colin |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-13-2006 07:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Go4Launch:
I'm sorry, but I just don't "get" the whole astronaut-signed baseball thing. ...
Me neither, but not quite as bizarre as the Mother Theresa signed baseball on rrauction. Paul |
1202 Alarm
Member Posts: 436
From: Switzerland & France
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 11-13-2006 08:20 AM
Signed baseballs.. one of the few things that amazed me since I started collecting space in the 90's on CompuServe.Baseballs signed by baseball stars, I can understand. But signed by actors, astronauts, politicians, I just don't get it. Is it because baseball is a strong American tradition? In that case, I want to see more signed Thanksgiving turkeys. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-13-2006 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by californiabuyer:
They also sold a Michael Collins auto 1966 "Space" Life magazine for $30 and a flag hand signed by Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins brought in $223.
Dave - The signatures on that flag all look to have been signed by the same hand - and it wasn't Armstrong's that's for sure.You need to be very wary of 'bargains' on non-space-specialist sites such as this. Some bad forgers use them to offload stuff that would never be listed on an auction site with space signature experts doing the vetting. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 11-13-2006 12:25 PM
The reasons behind people denegrating the collecting of baseballs signed by non-baseball players intrigue me. What are they? It seems like those who don't focus on things that you (in general, not any one person specifically)collect are inferior or wrong. There are many things that I don't collect because I'm simply not interested, but I respect the fact that people have interests different from my own. Is it good to compare other's interests to a turkey signed by Willie Mays? It seems a little bit elitist...but maybe THAT's the intent. Again, why is it that some denegrate the collecting of baseballs signed by non-baseball players? |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-13-2006 01:16 PM
A difference of opinion isn't necessarily a denegration of one's preferences.By the way, it was a moon rock signed by Willie Mays.. ( and if he still signs things, he probably rolled the moon-rock back to it's owner effectively smearing the signature ) |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-13-2006 01:28 PM
I suspect the appeal of signed baseballs is that they are an American symbol, not unlike that of the flag. So if someone wants to collect famous American autographs, a baseball isn't an inappropriate object...even if the signer isn't a baseball player. Also, it's one of the objects (other than a white 3x5 card) that allows a collector to have a nearly complete uniformity to their signed collection. Having all of one's signatures on the same media automatically helps tie the collection together, even if the signatures are from very different people with different backgrounds.However, I will admit a signed baseball from Mother Theresa is a bit odd, to say the least. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 11-13-2006 04:13 PM
One other thing with getting baseballs signed by non-players, is that you're geting an autograph of someone, and don't have anything relating to their career or specialty, then a baseball seems to be an accepted alternative. In my opinion, it looks better than an index card, which I use only in last resort (though an index card is quite cheaper!). |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-13-2006 09:44 PM
Far from it for me to challenge others on what they want signed, but personally a basebll signed by an astronaut just doesn't connect. Anyone have any signed footballs or basketballs? Tennis balls? |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 11-13-2006 11:02 PM
Actually, I have a football and basketball signed by Cal Ripken Jr. But I asked him to write on the football, "431HRS, O TDS" It's cool and different. I can imagine the length of this thread if I mention what I had Gene Cernan write on my hockey puck! (only kidding around, not trying to offend) |
cddfspace
Member Posts: 609
From: Morris County, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 11-14-2006 09:40 AM
For me, collecting baseballs starting by chance. I do some traveling for work. I Started by collecting baseballs signed be baseball players only. Everytime I travel, I try to catch a baseball game in the town I am going to. I carry a baseball with me in the event I can get an autograph at the stadium. On a trip back to New York in the early 90s I found myself on the same plane as Charles Barkley. It was either my ticket stub for the plane or the baseball- I went with the baseball. 2 weeks later, I ran into Tom Hanks- again, I had a baseball and went with it. I've had some great discussions around having someone sign a baseball- John Daly thought it was great and wished they made golf balls that big (said they were much easier to sign). Mike Wallace said it was the 1st baseball he had ever signed and wrote it on the ball. Michael Jordan mentioned with a laugh that he was not as good at baseball as the press showed. Someone mentioned it earlier- I display the baseballs in cubes in my office- they make a nice presentation and a great conversation piece. It is hard to display all of the autographed photos (and a bit awkward sometimes to pull out an album of hundreds of photos)- but the baseballs are always there. Just my 2 cents. CDDFSPACE |
CAC
Member Posts: 73
From: Maumelle, Arkansas, USA
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 11-14-2006 02:14 PM
I do not collect autographed balls but I have delivered some to be signed for some folks. They wanted autographed balls because it eliminated the chance that their request would be filled by the use of an autopen. You could imagine how difficult it would be to use an autopen or a stamp on a baseball! Also, on the signed "Life" magazines this site had for sell, I can tell you as one of the only people who dedicates themselves fully to signed Life magazines, they aren't all that common. Finding so many in one place is especially hard. Signed Life magazines are out there but they are scattered about. The sheer number on this site raises alarms with me. |
rlk
Member Posts: 61
From: west babylon, ny 11704
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 11-14-2006 03:17 PM
Hi all - As you know - I collect signed baseballs from political and historical figures. I meet them at fundraisers, dinners, booksignings, work events, etc. I too travel for business and also get a chance to meet some pretty incredible people - some by chance - some by focused determination. During UN Week in NYC - you would not believe the folks I have met and gotten them to sign baseballs at restaurants while I am dining. That's right - I said while I am dining - I research thoroughly where the dignataries dine and then I dine there right next to them. There are a few of us out there that are passionate about this hobby (collecting signed baseballs from historical folks) and we help each other out. I have over 1,000 baseballs signed by world leaders, astronauts, supreme court justices, top political figures, etc. Almost everyone who signs a ball for me cannot believe the list of folks who have signed and they all want to be a part of this. Many of you have seen my collection featured numerous times in Autograph Collector Magazine. Additionally - many top elected officials help me procure more signatures for my collection. A Member of Congress had Nelson Mandela sign a baseball for me last year during his trip to Washington. My collection will be featured at the National Archives Presidential Library System in 2007. Where are my going with this - THERE IS NOTHING MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF AMERICAN HISTORY - THAN A BASEBALL. JUST ASK THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES! If anyone wants to see a list of my baseballs - just email me at politicalpastime@yahoo.com. Sorry for the lengthy thread - but I had to stand up for us baseball collectors - as far as the Neil armstrong baseball signed at his house - what a @#$%^&* joke. I recently saw Neil and his wife at a gathering - I assure you nobody approached his house and had balls signed by the Neil Armstrong. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 11-14-2006 03:48 PM
I'm seeing some good reasons for getting baseballs signed by non-baseball players, and this post is not meant to stop them. But, I was hoping to see some reasons that people denegrate the collecting of them, and I haven't seen one yet. Honestly, I AM curious!Another "plus" to getting baseballs signed is value, which is pertinent if you're a dealer, investor, or collector with any concern about the monetary value of his stuff. Mother Teresa ball absurd? I think it's brilliant, and so does the guy who will spend $2,000 versus $300 for a photo or letter. Collins and Scott don't do them (anymore) so the few that have sold have demanded premiums. One final point on value to really blow your mind: Mastro sold a ball signed by Pope Benedict XVI in April for $26,000. Photos sell in the upper hundreds. |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1368
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 11-14-2006 04:07 PM
OK, I'll bite.Collecting astronaut signatures / moldering spacesuit gloves / tiny flags that spent a couple of days locked away in a spacecraft / etc is a pretty strange hobby in the eyes of most people. The reason why someone might denegrate baseball autograph collecting is the "I may be mad, but at least I'm not as mad as that" factor. It makes our own weird hobby seem that bit more mainstream. Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-14-2006 04:59 PM
I can fully appreciate the baseball as a symbol of Americana, but in my personal opinion, the baseball as a signing medium places too much focus on the signature and says nothing about the man or woman doing the signing. Asking for a baseball to be signed demonstrates no knowledge by the collector of who the person is and why they are having them sign other than that they are related to American history (if that). I'm not saying they don't know, but it doesn't embody that appreciation.At least with an appropriate photo, cover, book or model in hand, the collector demonstrates from the start the smallest of efforts to know the person they are approaching for an autograph. I believe celebrity signed baseballs sell for more on the secondary market because there are more buyers who care less about the person behind the signature than they do the perceived value of a scribble of ink. Were history of a greater concern, than I am certain that items more relevant to the signers' career or contribution to society would outperform everything else every time. Or better yet, there would be few if any secondary sales, as the owners and their descendants would take greater pride in their autographs as being a record of a personal meeting or interaction rather than just a signature. |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-14-2006 05:02 PM
Hope my comments didn't offend anyone; not intended to. Apologies if it did. Just curious, has anyone gotten a baseball player to sign a space artifact? |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 11-14-2006 05:16 PM
Good points, Robert. I appreciate the input, and agree (to some extent if not fully) with your comments.MCroft, I don't really think that you (nor anyone else) offended anyone, at least not me. But, as stated before, I did become curious as to others' logic. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 11-14-2006 05:25 PM
I agree with all of the responses, but from my earlier response, at least in my case, baseballs do come in handy as a last miunte item, i.e. a celebrity "appears" at an event last minute, and you don't have anything for them to sign, I would rather have a baseball than an index card, but on the flip side an index card can be "mounted" with a picture at a later date. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-14-2006 06:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JasonIUP:
Mother Teresa ball absurd? I think it's brilliant, and so does the guy who will spend $2,000 versus $300 for a photo or letter.
Just to clarify, I said "a bit odd" not "absurd" regarding the Mother Therasa signed ball. I don't want it to appear that I was suggesting it was absurd, because "to each their own" as far as collecting is concerned. I just found it odd because, as a signing medium, a baseball is an American symbol. To have a non-American sign it...other than a non-America baseball player...seems a little strange. To me, it's like asking George Bush to sign a cricket ball. Additionally, I suspect Mother Theresa knew very little about the sport of baseball (but I could be wrong!), so that adds a little to the oddity factor. That's not to criticize someone for obtaining her signature on a ball. Each collector must decide what he/she wants to collect and go with it. Regarding another post, I gotta agree with Robert's reasons for why collecting signatures on baseballs doesn't personally appeal to me. I prefer photos, because you see an image of the person in question, preferably depicted in the role that they are famous for. I don't collect baseball players autographs...but if I did, I suspect I'd still collect their signatures on photos instead of baseballs. For display, I found the best way to display photos is to display one pic in my office at work...then occaisonally change it out for a different photo. That way, it sparks new conversation each time someone sees I have a different pic on display. |
californiabuyer
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posted 11-14-2006 10:27 PM
One of my friends is a very big collector and he sent me the following e-mail, which basically hits on the point that baseballs equals americana. Dave,
The whole concept of signed baseball by a non-baseball player truly appeals to me as a person who does indeed like blending two loves, the idea of a signature and our national pastime. I also have a friend in Las Vegas who sits in the airport all day and waits for celebrities and he gets whoever passes by on them. He got Elisha Cuthbert (?) last week, why he would get her is beyond me, but as he says, it sure beats getting blank three by fives and celebrities who don't sign baseballs get a tad excited about signing something different. As far as Armstrong goes, I know about three-four dozen that exist and they I have seen them sell for as much $2K. If it's too good to be true it usually is and it will be interesting to see if this source sells more next month. Thanks, keep collecting! --R As far as Mother Theresa goes, that was the whole hub bub surrounding the FBI sting and there is in fact one in the latest RRauctions, as I was going through the catalog today. Thanks for your help all. Dave
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albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 11-15-2006 07:23 AM
Doesn't it basically all boil down to there is no right or wrong answer? That is basically is what appeals to the collector?Some like photos, some like covers. I drive a Dodge, you may drive a Ford. The point about getting a baseball signed or nothing, is very good. Years ago a friend of mine was at a golf tournament (Frank Viola's near Orlando) and had a bunch of baseballs with him. The vast majority of "celebs" were baseball players after all. He is a huge baseball collector. Unannounced Neil Armstrong (this is pre his not signing any more) shows up. Baseball or nothing? You be the judge. |
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