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Author
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Topic: Opinion please on an autograph (Not astronaut)
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Mark B
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posted 08-23-2005 09:14 AM
   
I have come across something that has caught my eye regarding a possible issue (for me and other music collectors)Please view these two current items on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7538006900&rd=1&ss pagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1 and
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7539678407&rd=1&ss pagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 Note the top left and top right signatures on both album covers. The top right belongs to Michael Hutchence who is deceased, the other belongs to a live band member. I have not checked the other signatures. If I am not mistaken I feel that these 2 signatures I mentioned have been stenciled in some way. They are almost identical in all main areas I have focused on. Pick 3 points on each signature and check please then offer your opinion be it positive or negative in my perspective of these particular signatures. My opinion is these are "atypical" no I would say blantent fake copies. I would go as far as to say these items constantly selling on Ebay and through often respected dealers but may fraudulent fakes. Any opinions please?
[This message has been edited by Mark B (edited August 23, 2005).] |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 09:25 AM
Hi Mark,They do not appear to match each other exactly IMO. But I do believe that each pair was autographed by the same person. Whether that person is the celebrity or not, I don't know - I am not familiar with INXS' autographs. Scott [This message has been edited by Scott (edited August 23, 2005).] |
Mark B
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posted 08-23-2005 09:36 AM
Thanks Scott,for sure they are not 100% the same but please take a minute to look at the right hand signature for me.
The "M' at the beginning is almost exactly the same in both images.
The line across the signature cuts in exactly the same spot. The "M" at each top has triangles exactly the same size. The end of the "M" cuts off at exactly the same point. For sure there are slight variations with other parts but the areas I mentioned are identical. Am I looking at these signatures to negative? There are several other points in each signature but the "M" is what stands out for me. Maybe I'm just seeing things. Cheers Mark.
[This message has been edited by Mark B (edited August 23, 2005).] |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 10:01 AM
The Michael Hutchence certainly is very close, I agree. Definitely close enough to be a stencil or autopen-type creation, as you mention. A large difference I noticed was on another signature, the Garry Gary at the lower left. Especially the "y" endings of them are very different. But the 2 Hutchences I agree are very close, almost too close IMO to be hand-signed, even by Hutchence himself. |
Mark B
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posted 08-23-2005 10:12 AM
yep i thought both of Hutchence signatures were to close to each other to be a coincidence.For sure the other sig is different as you say Scott esp with the "Y". Have gone through 9 other album covers I have image copies of that have been online of late and most are all close so maybe this is another autograph scam.. All hidden bidders, all on Ebay. Not high value per piece but if my assumptions are correct and 1000 sell a year around the traps thats a nice profit for someone! Hope I'm wrong on this. Anyone else like to offer an opinion on the top right sigs of Hutchence in both auctions please do. I'm here to learn! Thanx |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 08-23-2005 11:02 AM
Mark,Both sigs on the top right and top left of "Kick" and "Shabooh Shoobah" are distinctly different. IMO, there is no way that either can be construed as a copy of the other .... not even close .... which is what I'd expect to see if both LP's were presented for signature at the same time as was often the case with this band and indeed, many others .... and that argument is supported by the likelihood that all members signed at the same time given the pen colours and widths. The only investigation I'd suggest you need pursue would be to determine whether there are any other authentic signatures in the (Australian only) marketplace which would enable you to make a valid comparison with regard to style / general appearance. All I can add is thank goodness this (LP / CD autograph) market ain't littered with forgeries like the one in which we share similar interests ... and I say that as an avid fan of collecting hand signed albums. Mike
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[email protected]
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posted 08-23-2005 11:05 AM
NO clue about the alledged signatures but.....
Private auction?
Private feedback? Also the COA says "According to the standards of the autograph industry"? Caveat emptor. AL |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 11:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
Mark,
All I can add is thank goodness this (LP / CD autograph) market ain't littered with forgeries like the one in which we share similar interests ... and I say that as an avid fan of collecting hand signed albums.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Please forgive me if your post above found your tongue planted in cheek  , but judging from one of the few rock autographs I know fairly well, McCartney, I'd say there's a lot of forgeries out there, at least on eBay. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 12:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by [email protected]:
Private auction? Private feedback?
Yes, I agree. There are some cases where Private Auctions are used legitimately (though I'm usually wary of them on autograph auctions), but in the case of Private Feedback, that is a huge red flag IMO. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 02:29 PM
I've met Michael H, one on one, and got his 2 signatures from him, very nice guy, nonassuming, shame about him. I'll check mine and hopefully get back tomorrow or next. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 08-23-2005 03:00 PM
quote:
Please forgive me if your post above found your tongue planted in cheek , but judging from one of the few rock autographs I know fairly well, McCartney, I'd say there's a lot of forgeries out there, at least on eBay.
I have to agree. There are usually just as many fake John Lennon signatures on Ebay at any given time as there are fake Neil Armstrong signatures. And I would hazard to say that with some rock stars like Lennon, there is a higher percentage of fakes (compared to real signatures) than there is for Armstrong. I'd guess that maybe 1 in 20 Lennon signatures I see on Ebay have a chance of being real. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 03:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
I'd guess that maybe 1 in 20 Lennon signatures I see on Ebay have a chance of being real.
I agree completely. I've always wanted his autograph (I wish I'd collected when he was alive - but who knew what would happen) but there are so many fakes it's hard to know what's real. Probably the most commonly available "sure-thing" Lennons are his signed limited edition art prints, but all of those are very expensive and most are so explicit that I could never hang one on the wall. Westminster checks are also available but have gotten very expensive. Maybe some day I'll obtain his autograph.
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Mark B
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posted 08-23-2005 04:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff:
I've met Michael H, one on one, and got his 2 signatures from him, very nice guy, nonassuming, shame about him. I'll check mine and hopefully get back tomorrow or next.
Wehaveliftoff yes please let me know how close they are to yours, i appreciate this greatly. the signatures on ebay are from 1988-89 i am advised so it will be nice to have a genuine comparison. hope im dead wrong with this but im not yet convinced just yet. thanks all! mark. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 08-23-2005 09:49 PM
Scott,Perhaps I should have prefaced my last remarks with some notable exclusions ... Beatles / Stones / Springsteen would be some obvious exceptions to the rule .... but I also see many examples (even on ebay) of artists (individual and band) that are most definitely the real thing. Mike |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-23-2005 10:18 PM
Hi Mike,
If that's true then that's certainly good news. Thanks for the info.
Scott |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 08-23-2005 10:23 PM
Scott,Yep ... it's true mate .... In fact I just received by snail mail yesterday (three months if you don't mind so if you could move the American continent a little farther south, I'd appreciate it)
a hand signed copy of Harvest .... from ebay .... for less than 30 bucks.
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 08-23-2005 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
Perhaps I should have prefaced my last remarks with some notable exclusions ... Beatles / Stones / Springsteen would be some obvious exceptions to the rule .... but I also see many examples (even on ebay) of artists (individual and band) that are most definitely the real thing.
I think the same sorts of distinctions could be made in all areas of autograph collecting. The Beatles and Springsteen are the Neil Armstrongs and Gus Grissons of the music autograph collector. For every band where autographs are relatively cheap (and therefore not often forged) one could probably cite an astronaut, athlete, actor, politician, etc. who isn't a big name that isn't targeted by the majority of forgers. Whenever the level of fame or notoriety increases, so increases the demand for an autograph. Along with that increased demand is an increased market ripe for forgeries. It happens in all areas of autograph collecting. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 08-25-2005 09:32 AM
Mark,
According to the Rolling Stone color photographed page I have with 4 INXS members, incl. Michael H, which I believe I obtained in person in 1996, the signatures Do Not look similiar. Since the signatures from the '82 Shaboo CD look similiar to the '87 Kick CD but None are like the ones I have, I wouldn't want to bid on either of these items. Very unassuming guy, very easy to talk with, though I admit he wasn't speaking with much of a positive attitude,
(tired from the previous night's show?)
Michael was a great musical talent, far better than any "American Idol" product and one for the ages. Feel free to ask about any other musical or non-astronaut signatures in the future. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-25-2005 09:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Whenever the level of fame or notoriety increases, so increases the demand for an autograph. Along with that increased demand is an increased market ripe for forgeries. It happens in all areas of autograph collecting.
Well said.
[This message has been edited by Scott (edited August 25, 2005).] |
[email protected]
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posted 08-25-2005 10:48 AM
For what its worth - this was posted on an autograph collecter group I also moderate - he does a lot of in person music autographs (some editing to protect the innocent...<G> ):.......................
I'm not a member but there is a thread on Collectspace about some INXS autographs on ebay. This forger is very good, all the signatures look like they should except when you compare them to the real deal. I have many of the same autographs (on the same albums!) that I got in person and they don't "match enough". Besides all the red flags Al mentioned private auction, private feedback, and fancy COA's I have other issues. There is an AC/DC LP signed by Bon Scott in silver paint pen. Bon died 25 years ago, did they have paint pens back then? Many of items have all of the original members and even the session musicians be they long dead like Bon or not able to sign. For the latter he had a complete Derek and the Dominoes set even though Jim Gordon has been in a mental institution for decades for killing his mother. To top it off on another board a former member of one of the bands said that there was a signed LP for sale it was fake. 
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