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Author
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Topic: Atlantis astronaut Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper collapsed twice
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GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2474
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-22-2006 01:49 PM
   
CNN is reporting the following:"Space shuttle Atlantis astronaut Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper collapsed twice during a welcome home ceremony, The Associated Press reports." Does anyone have more information? |
Jacques van Oene
Member Posts: 861
From: Houten, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 09-22-2006 02:05 PM
I think it is better to keep this "news" out of the news, becouse of privacy of the astronaut...
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Jacques :) www.spacepatches.nl |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-22-2006 02:20 PM
Ahh, sensationalism at its finest...I just returned from the crew ceremony. Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper is fine. She came out at the end of the event and waved to the crowd. JSC director Mike Coats said that Stefanyshyn-Piper had felt well enough to want to come out and sign autographs, but they persuaded her not to... While I can see why the AP would want to report it, it didn't deserve the headline, in my opinion. The top news was the crew's return and their comments Piper browning out merited at most a paragraph in a larger story. collectSPACE will have a homecoming story, including an exclusive look at how their training team and fellow astronauts are welcoming back the STS-115 crew, on Monday. [Edited by Robert Pearlman (September 22, 2006).] |
Kirsten
Member Posts: 536
From: Delft, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-22-2006 02:28 PM
I wonder if they would have mentioned it if she hadn't been female ... |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-22-2006 03:17 PM
I suspect this will get more coverage than her spacewalks did.Yahoo is running a story showing a photo taken at the moment of one of the "collapses." I'm not putting a link here, however, because it's not worthy of being linked to. |
KSCartist
Member Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 09-22-2006 03:42 PM
I've seen the photo on one of the news media sites. It just looks to me like she was dehydrated. Glad to hear she's fine. She'll probably end up with a new nickname around the astronaut office.
The media loves anything different. If one of the other guys "collapsed" they'd jump onto that story also. But mjanovec is right, this will become "the" story of the mission.Tim |
ASCAN1984
Member Posts: 1049
From: County Down, Nothern Ireland
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-22-2006 04:06 PM
If we all could do as well as she did after spending tha long in weighlessness we would be doing fine. STS 115 in my opinion was the best ever shuttle mission and they all did an amazing job. They deserve our respect and the media should acknowlege how well they all did. |
LoneStarScouter
unregistered
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posted 09-22-2006 04:11 PM
CNN is now running the video..not going to put the link here either..just not right.. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-22-2006 04:11 PM
I prefer this photo of "Xena"...  (Of course, I might be biased as the photographer.) |
LoneStarScouter
unregistered
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posted 09-22-2006 04:19 PM
Smiling face is nice to see..I'm glad she's doing ok. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 09-22-2006 04:39 PM
Don't think this should be kept out of the news at tall. This is the reality of spaceflight and only shows that astronauts are human beings like the rest of us. I am pretty sure every day a lot of people go through something like this - I have seen many people in the army feeling ashamed when it happened to them under extreme conditions. You just pick them up and don't talk about it anymore, but it does not really help them. Well, Xena just showed that if you work hard, it is no shame at all to collapse. I believe that is a valuable message, not something to ignore. |
ASCAN1984
Member Posts: 1049
From: County Down, Nothern Ireland
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-22-2006 04:42 PM
Why do you call her zena. is it her call sign and if how how did she get it |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2474
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-22-2006 04:59 PM
Thanks for all the info. Looks like a non-event to me. I had received an e-mail with only that one line and was being asked what gives (that's what happens when you are the "Space Expert" in an Engineering office). To me is says something that those who normally don't follow the program are interested enough to ask, I just wish the media would focus on how successful the flight was. Thanks again for all of those who responded. Robert, once again a wonderful photo. I think that smile says what we are all thinking of this latest mission.
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-22-2006 05:09 PM
The only "newsworthy" part of the story is that her dizzy spell happened in front of a crowd and was captured on camera. How many other astronauts have similar problems but they are not reported because they are not caught on camera? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-22-2006 06:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ASCAN1984:
Why do you call her zena.
I was just reading her name tag:  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-22-2006 06:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
This is the reality of spaceflight...
Yes, but its not being treated as such and therefore isn't served well by the headlines. Were all writers as diligent as Mark Carreau at the Houston Chronicle, then I doubt this would be an issue: quote:
Astronauts experience constant weightlessness during spaceflight, and the blood and other fluids flow to the upper body, giving the fliers a feeling of congestion, much like a cold.When they return to Earth, the forces of gravity pull all the fluids back to the lower extremities of their bodies. The heart must work harder for a while to pump blood to the brain. Astronauts say it can take a couple of days before a feeling of light-headedness disappears.
Compare that to the hype reported by the Associated Press: quote:
Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper left the hangar at Ellington Field through a side door but was not taken to a hospital. Officials said she was doing fine.
By even suggesting that a trip to the hospital was a possibility the AP reporter infers that this was not something well understood or a "reality of spaceflight".[Edited by Robert Pearlman (September 22, 2006).] |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-22-2006 07:33 PM
The Florida Today space page isn't doing her any favors, either. |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 09-22-2006 09:16 PM
quote:
Compare that to the hype reported by the Associated Press: Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper left the hangar at Ellington Field through a side door but was not taken to a hospital. Officials said she was doing fine. By even suggesting that a trip to the hospital was a possibility the AP reporter infers that this was not something well understood or a "reality of spaceflight".
Wow. The AP screwing something up. I'm shocked. Shocked[Edited by collectSPACE Admin (September 22, 2006).] |
albatron@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 09-22-2006 10:07 PM
Ahhhh Xena the Warrior Princess. Nah old Xena she did alright. Don't forget the spacewalks. Those dehydrate you more than anything else. |
Shuttlefan
Member Posts: 173
From: 41366 Schwalmtal, Germany
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 09-23-2006 03:22 AM
If you are a person of daily media interest you will always get your news lines if you suffer a health problem in public. If Madonna,Robbie Williams, President Bush ,Brad Pitt, whoever would collapse in public you would have much more hype in the news. The news interest is not related to the fact of her being female or an astronaut but that it happened when people watched it. Just remember the "life coverage" from Pope John Paulīs final illness, I was exspecting the news channels switching from the stock market rates at the bottom of the screen to a life transmission of the popeīs ECG. Of course, the mission was perfect, so the news people try to catch as much "unusual" to get their story. But you are right, itīs sad that a fainting makes a bigger story than twelve days of good work in space. |
East-Frisian
Member Posts: 586
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 09-23-2006 03:54 AM
Heide Piper and Joe Tanner made a great job during this flight. But it is a really hard work. Yes, we could see her problems, but I guess, that there were several others, who had also problems after landing or during a mission. The point is, that no one could take a notice, or all crew-member had problems at the same time. I really hope, that this will not be a possible reason for ending her astronaut career.The Eastfrisian |
Shuttlefan
Member Posts: 173
From: 41366 Schwalmtal, Germany
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 09-23-2006 07:01 AM
Hopefully it will not be a threat to her career, but NASA medicals surely will focus on the question if it was mere coincidence or related to a specific astromedical problem. All in all it looked very like a typical vaso-vagal fainting caused by lack of fluid, so not directly linked to a gravitational effect. By indirect means of course now her body fluid was dragged to her lower limbs but she would not have fainted if the body fluid had been well balanced. In a young healthy person you can tolerate systolic blood pressure counts as low as 70 to 80 mm RR, cause the elasticity of the blood vessels inside the brain can obtain a flow sufficient enough for normal brain function. But if itīs getting lower than this you get those typical symptoms , stuttering,paleness, loosing the trail of thought, unability of keeping your posture and then loss of consciousness due to brain stem dysfunction.As soon as you lie down you recover in a few seconds like she did, and itīs no real threat to your health as long as the withstanding persons prevent you from getting a serious injury when you fall. Up to 50% of people or more faint at least once in a lifetime (young slim woman as Heidemarie being a risk group). But itīs nothing you should just underestimate as "nothing" but needs a basic medical investigation. Just to mention it: This was of course not an epileptic fit which looks quite different.
Best wishes Xena and thanks for sending me that lovely signed EVA suit picture last year! |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 09-23-2006 07:11 AM
Why shouldn't this be a news story ?
The STS-115 welcoming ceremony is a public event with media permitted to attend.
If it had happened away from the glare of a camera lens, we would likely never have known about it. This is also a human interest story.
It was just unfortunate timing for the astronaut in question. And I do not believe it will prevent her from flying another shuttle mission.
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martyn20
Member Posts: 13
From: Burgess Hill, Sussex, UK
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 09-23-2006 07:56 AM
I have to say that I think this is just as much story as any other reported about STS-115.
The fact it is embarrassing and a horrible thing to happen in public to a great person does not mean it should not be reported.
I really wish her the very best and hope this will not cause future problems with the flight doctors, she is a great asset to the space program. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-23-2006 09:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
By even suggesting that a trip to the hospital was a possibility the AP reporter infers that this was not something well understood or a "reality of spaceflight".
Maybe it's because I'm reading excerpts here, but I don't see this as hype. Put yourself in the reporter's shoes: You tell your editor that an astronaut faltered during the crew return ceremony, but she recovered and is fine. What's among the first questions your editor asks? "Was she taken to the hospital?"As for the media loving anything different... well, that is the news. Johnny hitting a home run isn't going to merit much other than a sentence. Johnny hitting a home-run which clears all bases and causes the team to win from a deficit is news. I'm sorry anyone sees this as sensationalism - but you can't make a blanket statement like that. It also depends on how the person reports the news as well. It would be a disservice to report only the "happy, thrilled, proud" side of the space program. [Edited by collectSPACE Admin (September 23, 2006).] |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-23-2006 10:34 AM
Yep....someone talking in front of a crowd of people and then collapsing is sure "news" to me.Yep.....I just scan the channels all night watching for someone to collapse in front of a bunch of people because there was nothing bigger to watch after a 12 day mission and 3 space walks that attached the heaviest part of the ISS carried into space yet. Damn good thing we have good "news" coverage like people collapsing on podiums. Like in the Apollo 13 movie when Marilyn Lovell says to the NASA PR guy when they want to put up an antenna on her lawn..."if landing on the moon wasn't important enough, why is not landing on it?" If the shuttle mission from lift off to landing didn't warrant more than a few seconds of the network's time, why should this? IT WASN'T "NEWS". [Edited by ejectr (September 23, 2006).] |
martyn20
Member Posts: 13
From: Burgess Hill, Sussex, UK
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 09-23-2006 11:07 AM
The majority of people who watch network news do not have a clue what a P3/4 truss is or what was involved in the EVA's. They do know 6 people went up on the shuttle and the day after they returned one of them was 'taken ill' in front of a crowd of friends, family, fans and the media.
Whether it was Heide, Brent, John Glenn or Neil Armstrong people are going to want to know about it. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-23-2006 11:25 AM
As far as I'm concerned....I don't want to know about it, nor the other disinteresting crap they pass of as "news" these days.Robert's right...."sensationalism at it's finest" is what they pass off as "news today. It's crap! |
martyn20
Member Posts: 13
From: Burgess Hill, Sussex, UK
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 09-23-2006 11:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:
As far as I'm concerned....I don't want to know about it, nor the other disinteresting crap they pass of as "news" these days.Robert's right...."sensationalism at it's finest" is what they pass off as "news today. It's crap!
Do you think it should have been covered up and not reported to the public ?
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-23-2006 11:46 AM
I don't think it should have been kept out of the news or covered up (you really can't "cover up" something that happens so publicly anyway). It is a news item, but a relatively minor one at best. It certainly shouldn't have been the headline of the day for NASA-related coverage. It warrents, at best, a paragraph somewhere further down in the story of the mission, mentioning that she had a few episodes of dizziness while speaking to the public...which were the result of the re-adaptation to gravity. Instead, I log into the news websites and the banner headline I see is "Astronaut Collapses." There is an unhealthy fixation in our society with seeing other people fail or in distress. After all, how many people slow down to look at a car accident scene? Also, I look at this as being different than a major celebrity going through an illness. People have a natural concern when someone they admire has a major health problem. This story doesn't qualify for that however. It was merely a side effect of re-adaptation to gravity. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-23-2006 11:49 AM
I think it wasn't news worthy is what I think. |
eurospace
Member Posts: 2610
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 09-23-2006 01:12 PM
I think similar things have happened in public appearances, and they were always subject to reporting. Think of Gerald Ford's and George Bush's falls, Fidel Castro's stumbling, former chancellor Helmut Schmidt's fainting. If you are a public person, you mostly enjoy the attention of the media. It is part of your public life, it enhances your sales value on the market, it makes you famous. I don't think there is reason for whining now that a mishap is reported. It's part of the territory these people work in. They enjoy the good parts of it, but sometimes it's a little less pleasant. Part of the game. During the mission, Tanner was once referring to Piper that her future was into teaching spacewalks (Tanner himself did his 7th spacewalk during 115). I found that a bit odd considering these were her first two EVA's, and that NASA is in sore need of EVA experience for their operational ISS missions. Was that an indication for a less than perfect performance? ------------------
Jürgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-23-2006 01:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
You tell your editor that an astronaut faltered during the crew return ceremony, but she recovered and is fine. What's among the first questions your editor asks? "Was she taken to the hospital?" ...it would be a disservice to report only the "happy, thrilled, proud" side of the space program.
You hit on a couple of good points Hart, that I meant to mention earlier. First, knowing the AP space reporters, I could easily see how their article may have been given direction by an editor. AP's assignment editors, in my opinion, tend to be a little disaster happy, always interested in the worst case scenario. I also want to make clear that I am not suggesting that this event should not have been reported. My "sentionalism at its finest" comment was more a commentary on style than of content. Had all the media spent more time explaining the science behind what had happened, I would not have labeled their reports as sensationalistic. [Edited by Robert Pearlman (September 23, 2006).] |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-23-2006 01:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by eurospace:
Was that an indication for a less than perfect performance?
To the contrary, I believe Tanner was inferring that she was such a natural that she should be teaching others how to do it, in light of his own role as spacewalk mentor to others.[Edited by Robert Pearlman (September 23, 2006).] |
pokey
Member Posts: 361
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-23-2006 06:53 PM
I was at the event along with Robert and some other cSers. I was next to Ellen Baker (medical doctor astronaut) while all this was going on. Ellen didn't start running to the podium to render aid (that's what a movie script would do)- she just calmly assured her friends standing around her that Heidemarie was OK. (Sort of like watching a flight crew in turbulent weather to see if they look scared or not.) Tanner told the crowd after the first episode that, "she's OK, I was doing this myself just yesterday", something like that. Per Kirsten's speculation, I believe it would have been the same headline if anyone else in the crew had done the same thing with the cameras rolling. Someone told me they observed Heidemarie drinking her bottle of water rather quickly at the beginning of the ceremony so perhaps she was a little dehydrated. The blue flight suits they wear are fire proof and I've been told by several of the astronauts they are very hot because of that. The day was perhaps upper 90's F with high humidity. There was a strong breeze in the hanger and I'm not sure how much of the breeze was reaching the podium during the ceremony. I'm sure she'll very likely pick up another nickname from all this with her coworkers. |
John Charles
Member Posts: 339
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 09-23-2006 10:40 PM
Thanks to "pokey" for an interesting report from Ellington Field.Since "post-spaceflight orthostatic intolerance" is (or was) my field of specialization, I feel justified in making an observation. Given the physiological changes occuring in even short space flights (Cooper got light-headed after his one-day Mercury flight, but--as always--there were other complicating factors), I have always been surprised that we didn't have more such events among our astronauts post-landing. Add together the post-landing dehydration, plus the neural changes in the control of the cardiovascular system in weightlessness, plus the hot temperatures (whether At Edwards or KSC or Houston) plus fire-retardant blue flight suits or especially the highly-insulated orange space suits, and you have a sure-fire formula for fainting. But it is just plain old physiology in action, even in supremely healthy and fit astronauts. Nothing to be ashamed of, any more than our dependence on oxygen. Which is why I am troubled that so many people think it is inappropriate to mention it on the news. It occurred at a public event, and was (as I mentioned above) an unusual occurence. If no one had mentioned it, wouldn't we be worried by yet another "cover-up?" Post-spaceflight fainting is just one of the very many hazards of spaceflight, and a small and easily controlled one at that. If we cannot come to grips with it, without getting all emotional, how can we expect to cope with the really big hazards of spaceflight? ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-24-2006 12:27 AM
Another factor that nobody mentioned is that public speaking is somewhat stressful too. Not everyone is comfortable at a podium speaking to a room (or hanger) full of people. I'm not implying that stage fright caused this event, but even a little nervousness can possbily contribute a little more stress to an already stressed body. At least, I know my heart rate climbs a little when I get in front of a crowd.  [Edited by mjanovec (September 24, 2006).] |
East-Frisian
Member Posts: 586
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 09-24-2006 12:55 AM
Mjanovec, I do agree to your arguments, I have the same problem.A little bit "funny" in this case is, that the most of all say that the collaps is "not a news", but many members discus this theme. So it might be a news. For me, it were news, that I wanted to know. Not for discredit Heide Piper, it also could have been an other crew-member, but to know, that even astronauts do have "simple problems" as you and I. I fear really, that it was the end of her astronaut career, because we all know, that NASA does have to much astronauts, and to delete some from the astronaut corps because of medical reasons, would be a good argument (for NASA - not real). So I hope the best for Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper. A small footnote. It is tol, that he parents are Ukranian. Heidemarie and Martha are really German names. Any ideas, why she got this names? The Eastfrisian |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-24-2006 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by East-Frisian:
A little bit "funny" in this case is, that the most of all say that the collaps is "not a news", but many members discus this theme. So it might be a news.
Good point there. We're a unique group of people. We know that John Glenn didn't walk on the moon, that the shuttle doesn't regularly fly there either, and can name at least three other countries - and their astronauts - who have been in space other than the US and USSR. Take a moment and think of a family member, or a co-worker, or a random person in your travels. This may not be news to some of us, but it's news to them. They may not understand or be interested about the science, but they are interested in the people, something they can relate to. Again, it's in how it's presented. If it had been written as a separate story - alongside the crew return - with an outside doctor saying it's one of the expected effects of spaceflight and Bill Nelson mentioning the shaking of head experiment he did after 61C landed (mentioned in Mission) - could anyone find fault? Or are people saying this shouldn't have been covered at all? And granted, it's a stretch, but Irwin had heart problems after his Apollo 15 mission. Not that I'm saying that the two incidents are similar, but I'm surprised no reporters have made mention of that as a sidebar.
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martyn20
Member Posts: 13
From: Burgess Hill, Sussex, UK
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 09-24-2006 11:57 AM
It's a bit of a catch 22 really. If as was mentioned above Joe T had the same problem the day before and others have done the same thing in the past the fact that it has not been previously reported make this a news story because it is unique.
If it was common knowledge that many Astronauts have problems with fainting after a mission this would not have been such a big story. |
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