posted 04-07-2005 03:17 PM               

Some items that are from my personal space collection are in my previous facility in the UK. There are items at Chabot that belong to the previous director. In both cases, the paperwork was done at the point of departure in order to rely on more than collective memory and was all friendly and organized.

When China went into space, I personally bought a large number of memorabilia pieces with the intent of creating a small exhibit. My facility couldn't afford to buy the pieces, but I could, so I did. And actually, I don't think we've done the paperwork yet

It's really common for a person who has a lifelong passion about a subject, enough to have big visions and do great things, to intertwine their life with that of their institution. All too often they don't think about keeping the sorts of records that can prove ownership or recording every little detail, simply because they've never considered that they won't be there.

posted 04-07-2005 03:51 PM               

The incredible lengths that he went to in the restorations of Odyssey and Liberty Bell 7, and in the efforts (which he started) to locate the interior of the Apollo 15 Command Module, are all one needs as proof of Max's commitment.

I interviewed Max once in his office at the Cosmosphere and was floored by the number of items, large and VERY small, in their collection. That day, he had the flight suit and helmet worn by Jim Lewis on the day Liberty Bell 7 sank, in a box on his office floor. He had just received it from Mr. Lewis, and he was just about giddy over having added it to Cosmosphere's collection. He seemed profoundly touched to get the personal items like that that connected real people and the spaceflight heroics they performed.

My favorite moment was during a chat in an empty dining room at a hotel near the Grissom Memorial in Spring Hill, Indiana. Max was there to present Liberty Bell 7 components to the Grissom museum. For whatever reason, I was considering getting OUT of space collecting at the time. But Max gave me a bit of a lecture about NEVER letting go of a spaceflight collection as long as I loved the subject.

I may never see him again, but I'll always owe Max a favor for giving me that advice.

posted 04-07-2005 05:21 PM               

After reading the entire indictment, Max is going to be left bankrupt, humiliated (justly so) and there's no doubt that he'll be spending a good chunk of his life as a guest in a federal prison.

What really bothers me is how Max used to rant against any space artifacts being sold to private collectors because he thought they'd disappear, never to be seen again. I guess he didn't really believe what he was saying and it turns out Max was a wonderful supplier to the private collector after all.

posted 04-07-2005 06:00 PM            

There are a lot of scummy CEO's out there these days. Enron, Martha, Tyco, the list goes on and on. It becomes so easy to stereotype these people and our response to them. "Them darn greedy scoundrels, they think they're so smart". You cannot allow yourself to train yourself to react to people in such away. You read 36 pages of text that were written to make Max sound guilty. But what have we heard from Max and/or his attorney? We must be civil and hear BOTH sides before damning him.

posted 04-07-2005 08:20 PM               

From reading the indictment, it's obvious that this investigation into Max's thefts has been well researched, well documented and there is collaborating evidence from multiple sources. I'm sure that Superior made a deal to offer evidence and testimony against Max to avoid any charges or implications of impropriety on their part.

To have Max say that private collectors shouldn't be allowed to own any space artifacts because we don't know how to protect, preserve or display them and then he turns around and sells stolen NASA items to the private collectors and then deposits the money in his personal bank accounts... well that's just arrogant and obscene.

How many other items did Max steal and sold to private clients that didn't have any paperwork for and he didn't get caught with?

I have a feeling that whoever purchased the stolen items from Superior will get a knock on the door by the FBI or will be contacted by them shortly. If the items are confiscated by the FBI, Superior better be ready to refund the money or they'll face some lawsuits also.

If Max had taken these artifacts for his own collection because he loves space artifacts, I would understand that and I would hope after the items were returned, he would have been let go with a slap on the wrist. But to steal these wonderful artifacts, then sell them to improve his lifestyle, that's just pure unadulterated greed at it's worst and Max deserves to go to prison.

This is NOT a case of a "dispute" between the Cosmosphere and Max, it's out and out theft of public property that belongs to all of us and I for one hopes the government makes Max an example to prevent others in his position from committing the same crimes.

posted 04-07-2005 11:02 PM            

I bought a couple of the Apollo 13 lucites from Max many years ago. They came with a COA, stating that the couch samples were from the Apollo 13 spacecraft.

I sent the lucites and Cosmosphere COAs to Novaspace for Lovell's signatures. Capt. Lovell signed the lucites, but refused to sign the COAs. Hmmmmm...

posted 04-07-2005 11:30 PM               

The items and their current owners have been identified and many - including myself - have already surrendered the pieces to NASA's Office of the Inspector General (which was acting on behalf of the U.S. Justice Department).

To my knowledge, there are no items in any current auctions relevant to this investigation.

I do not believe Superior Galleries could be held accountable legally, as regardless if the items were stolen or not, Max Ary would have had to have signed a consignor agreement that in part would have asserted that he possessed title to the items that he was selling and (without checking) likely indemnify Superior from legal challenges.

Further, if you go back and read the auction rules that all bidders agreed to by bidding, they specifically preclude buyers from holding Superior Galleries accountable if later the item they purchased is found to be stolen.

Lastly, the "Superior Galleries" to which Ary consigned is not Regency-Superior Galleries hosting an auction this weekend. Some of the people involved are the same, but they are a different company.

Which leaves the individual collectors adversely affected by this, such as myself, with little recourse but to chalk it up to experience, hope for reparations being ordered as part of the Justice Department's case or consider legal action against the individual(s) who are ultimately found guilty of the theft.

If that were to be Ary, I do not know presently how I would proceed. I'm out a significant chunk of change and have a hole in my collection - the latter of which I am currently more upset about. That said, I deeply respect Ary for the amazing work he did at the Cosmosphere, his championing the recovery of Liberty Bell 7, the restoration of Apollo 13's Odyssey and other such truly admirable projects.

posted 04-08-2005 12:45 AM               

Bidder expressly consents to the following Waiver and Release:

Bidder, for himself, his heirs, agents, successors and assigns, generally and specifically waives and releases, and forever discharges Superior, and its respective affiliates, parents, shareholders, agents, subsidaries, employees, members of their respective board of directors, and each fo them, and their respective successors and assigns from any and all claims, rights, demands and causes of action and suits, of whatever kind or nature, whether in law or equity, whether known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, which Bidder may claim to have with respect to the title to any goods purchased, the sale itself, and/or the auction, except where such reimbursement is otherwise authorized in these Terms and Conditions of Sale.

It is the intention of Bidder that this waiver and release shall be effective as a bar to each and every claim, demand, cause of action and suit that may arise hereunder, and Purchaser herbey knowingly and voluntarily waives any and all rights and benefits otherwise conferred upon him by the provision of Section 1542 of the California Civil Code, which reads in full as follows:

"A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH IF KNOWN BY HIM MUST HAVE MATERIAL-LY AFFECTED HIS SETTLEMENT WITH THE DEBTOR." (sic)

If a dispute arises concerning ownership of a lot that has been bid upon, Superior reserves the right to commence a statutory inter-pleader proceeding at the expense of the Consignor and successful Bidder and any other applicable party, and in such event shall be entitled to its reasonable attorneys' fees and costs.

posted 04-08-2005 08:03 AM               

Max Ary is proud of his past association with the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center, as its founder and leader for more than 26 years. He is also proud that he has been a pioneer in the preservation of space history for more than a quarter of century.

Mr. Ary and his attorneys, including former federal prosecutors and investigators, have been looking into these matters for more than a year and the inquiry is ongoing. Based on that investigation Mr. Ary intends to defend his innocence against any charge that he harmed the Cosmosphere or the federal space program.

Mr. Ary's defense will certainly contend that his actions in dealing with tens of thousands of space items during his tenure at the Cosmosphere complied with the policies of the Cosmosphere's Board of Directors.

It is important to remember that Max Ary is presumed to be innocent, and any charges are merely accusations.

Thompson Law Firm, LLC

posted 04-08-2005 08:27 AM               

The Board of Trustees and management staff of Omniplex are fully aware of the dispute between the Kansas Cosmosphere and Max. He has kept us informed of the situation every step of the way. However, the situation truly is between the Cosmosphere and Max, and has nothing whatsoever to do with his tenure at Omniplex. Max has been an extremely able leader for this institution at a time when we've needed someone who can take this institution to a level of regional prominence. He is someone who has constantly exhibited the qualities of integrity, honesty, industry expertise and sincere passion for bettering the museum and its endeavors. Our support lies with Max and his family and we look forward to a speedy resolution to the situation.

posted 04-08-2005 08:30 AM               

The Board of Directors and staff of the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center have been saddened by the charges filed against Max Ary for the theft of artifacts from the Cosmosphere's collection.

In the fall of 2003, the Cosmosphere's internal inventory uncovered irregularities -- and further investigation showed items were removed from the collection and sold improperly. Upon review of the information and materials gathered, the U.S. Attorney's office, the NASA Inspector General's office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation found they had sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal case against Mr. Ary. The Cosmosphere has cooperated fully with authorities as requested, and we will continue to do so.

These developments are troubling and we know anyone who has the best interests of the Cosmosphere in mind will share our concerns. But the responsibility for the investigation is in the hands of the federal authorities and we will join the rest of the community of Cosmosphere supporters in awaiting the outcome.

While this has been a very difficult time, the Cosmosphere is literally a steward of history, and our first and foremost priority is to preserve and protect the artifacts entrusted to us. We hope to have all the items returned to their rightful place in the Cosmosphere's collection as soon as possible. These pieces of international space history belong to the public, and they must be preserved for the benefit of future generations. We have also taken a considerable number of steps to insure to the best of our abilities that such a theft does not occur again, including strengthening all policies related to the care and oversight of the collection and the security systems that monitor our facilities.

Even amidst these significant distractions, the board and entire staff of the Cosmosphere have remained focused on our mission to educate and inspire people of all ages through the wonder of spaceflight. We will continue to enhance, grow and expand the reach and impact the Cosmosphere has on the public and remain committed to ensuring a long and healthy future for the museum.

We want to thank our many supporters who are standing beside us during this difficult time and we want to assure everyone that the Cosmosphere remains one of the world's most significant space museums and remains open for visitors.

posted 04-08-2005 09:48 AM               

The twist that hurts is that as a buyer, you don't know the source of the objects you are buying. You are blind to the background of that item or the seller. You are excluded from making any type of judgment about the source of that item. You depend on the auction house to consign legitimate items. It is that trust, which is apparently imaginary, that is now burning several collectors. So how does a collector remain viable?

posted 04-08-2005 12:18 PM               

Especially in this case if the items were Apollo 13 and Liberty Bell 7 related?

posted 04-08-2005 02:29 PM               

The Board of Trustees and management staff of Omniplex are fully aware of the dispute between the Kansas Cosmosphere and Max. He is someone who has constantly exhibited the qualities of integrity, honesty, industry expertise and sincere passion for bettering the museum and its endeavors...

posted 04-08-2005 03:26 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by spaceflori:
Remember when dealing with an auction house you never get to know the name of the consignor of an item you bought so there was absolutely no red flag in this particular case to watch out for

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posted 04-09-2005 09:14 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by John K. Rochester:
May I suggest innocent until proven guilty...

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posted 04-09-2005 12:36 PM               

But being in this business I have seen items thrown in the trash - and people retrieve them. This becomes wrong when the person that has the power to throw them away - can also retrieve them for their own personal use or sale.

But part of the blame must also go to the auction house I believe - as in the case of Ary - that their experts should know that his museum has certain items on display and a red flag should go up if something from these appears for sale.

It is just more work for the auctioneer!

posted 04-09-2005 09:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawkman:
You may... but that only really applies in a court of law... not a court of public opinion. Two words... Michael Jackson.

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posted 04-09-2005 11:54 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrSpace86:
Which Cosmosphere lucite item is in question?

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Checking the catalog, it appears to be lot 915.

The only contention the indictment charges about this particular, single lucite was that when it was sold (along with other items) the payment sent to the Cosmosphere was allegedly deposited into Ary's personal account.

posted 04-10-2005 08:16 AM               

Think about amongst our community - there are certain folk you buy items from unquestionably - and some folks are elevated to godlike status. And as nice a guy as they may be, do you truly know them and where they get their stuff? Nope, there's a high level of trust here.

Superior didn't do anything wrong but, some will hold it against them unfortunately.

As I've said before, innocent or guilty, the fallout will be bad in many areas.

And as I also said, the indictment is just that. Damning to be sure, but remember the "suspect" and his team have yet to put on a rebuttal or their side. As an esteemed astronaut says "$25,000 for a mock up Omega?".

posted 04-10-2005 08:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rizz:
Capt. Lovell signed the lucites, but refused to sign the COAs.

---

posted 04-10-2005 07:16 PM               

On the artifacts that I lend out to museums, I also hike up the value of the items in case the artifact is damaged, lost or destroyed. I'm going to have to fight it out with the insurance company and you know their going to try to beat the value down to as little as possible. That's what the Cosmosphere did when they loaned out this mockup watch and insured it for $25,000.

From the indictment it seems that none of the insurance money recovered from the loss of the mockup watch, made it back to the Cosmosphere's bank account and it was put into the private bank acct of Max Ary. Why? Attorneys get sanctioned and disbarred everyday for just that same co-mingling.

While I agree that you're innocent till proven guilty, the indictment is very detailed in it's charges, Superior is providing damning evidence as to the chain of custody and if nothing else, let a judge or jury look at the evidence.

What I'm really curious about is why Max was selling rare space artifacts owned by NASA and the Smithsonian under his personal Superior account, depositing the money in his personal bank account, while signing the loan papers from NASA saying that all of the items were still at the Cosmosphere?

Like I've said before, Max will plead guilty to one count or possibly a lesser charge, then he'll more than likely pay restitution to all of the victims, then be put on probation so he can keep his position in Oklahoma.

What I'm curious about is why everyone on this board isn't in an uproar about how the dozens of honest people who were victims of Max and how they've all lost their money due to his greed. Does nobody care about the fact that they're the victims?

posted 04-12-2005 09:46 AM               

As far as judging Max's character because of what the media tells us to think, nobody is even looking at the media reports, we're all looking at the 36 page federal indictment.

I'm not ready to hang Max, he does deserve and have the right to be heard, as we all do. However, the US Attorney wouldn't have spent 3+ years investigating, collecting collaborating evidence from multiple sources including NASA, National Air and Space Museum, Superior, Cosmosphere, all of his bank and financial records, plus all of the victims who lost very rare and expensive artifacts that were confiscated by the federal government.

How about a word of support for the victims to be compensated by Max? Is there a single person who posts in support of Max who's given a seconds thought to the dozens of people who've lost thousands of dollars? They didn't knowingly buy stolen merchandise, but they're the ones paying for Max's actions and those who lost their hard earned money are the ones who deserve justice. I have no desire to see Max in prison and in fact I couldn't care less if he spends one day in jail, I'd just like to see the truth come out.