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  Buzz Responds To Moon Hoaxers (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Buzz Responds To Moon Hoaxers
Aztecdoug
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posted 09-10-2002 02:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those cult of destruction creeps, aka, moon hoaxers, made it to the local LA news tonight. They were putting the moves on Buzz Aldrin in Beverly Hills today on Rodeo Drive with their bibles and all.

The whole time this is going on the cameras are rolling.

Well, one thing leads to another and you see Buzz throwing a right jab at somebody! It isn't clear who it was aimed at, or if he even connected but man, you can see Buzz winding up and letting go.

Of course the pathetic little creeps are whining about lawsuits, blah blah blah...

I for one will be proud to donate money to the Buzz Aldrin defense fund if he needs it.

Way to go Buzz!

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-10-2002 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the LA Times:
Lunar Landing Skeptic Says 'Buzz' Aldrin Attacked Him

Beverly Hills police said they are investigating a complaint that Apollo 11 astronaut Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin struck a man in the face Monday after the man asked Aldrin to swear on a Bible that he had been to the moon. Detectives said they responded to a disturbance Monday at the Luxe Hotel on Rodeo Drive and took a report from Bart Sibrel, 37, who said he was battered by the 72-year-old astronaut. Aldrin, who took part in the 1969 lunar mission, was gone when police arrived about 4:30 p.m. and was not interviewed, said Beverly Hills Police Lt. Joe Lombardi.

Sibrel said he does not believe Aldrin or anyone else has ever walked on the moon.

John K. Rochester
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posted 09-10-2002 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While violence is not normally an option I would condone... I guess if you walk up to someone who put their life on the line and continue to harass (I'm sure this is not the first jacka... I mean Hoaxer! that Buzz has encountered) you can only take so much. Try walking up to a survivor of the holocaust or Pearl Harbor and tell them that it never happened, it was all a hoax. Buzz did alright for himself, and I too will support the "Aldrin Defense Fund".

Gary In NY
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posted 09-10-2002 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary In NY   Click Here to Email Gary In NY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, That is terrible news. I can understand how one may lose their temper if someone acts like that especially to an American Hero. Is there any possibility if Dr. Aldrin is indeed found guilty of assaulting the guy that Buzz might face any jail time?

Gary

Paul
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posted 09-10-2002 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Way to go Buzz!!

I'll contribute to the "Aldrin Defense Fund"!

These skeptics and hoaxers need to get a life!

"...another right jab by Aldrin and the annoying ASSailant bites the dust and is
down for the count..."

72 and he can still throw a punch... FANTASTIC!!! Cool!

Paul

randy
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posted 09-10-2002 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for randy   Click Here to Email randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Buzz is THE MAN! I'm glad to see him stand up to these creeps! I'll also be happy to contribute to his defense fund.

bruce
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posted 09-10-2002 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bruce   Click Here to Email bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally don't believe there ever was a moon hoaxer.

Best, Bruce

Rodina
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posted 09-10-2002 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The worst possible criminal offense Aldrin could possibly be tried for here is aggravated battery (which I doubt in the extreme). A first time offender wouldn't see any jail time, especially not one his age. Maybe (maybe-maybe-maybe!) he gets 100 hours community service or something, a 30 day suspended jail time. But no one is going to prosecute Aldrin.

Point is, this guy deserved it.

Not unlike all those years ago when someone tried to take a swing and John Glenn on the steps of the Capitol and Glenn laid the guy out with one punch.

OPOS
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posted 09-10-2002 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OPOS   Click Here to Email OPOS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in on the defense fund. Unfortunately, I can see it now: "The Astronaut, scared about revealing the TRUTH, resorted to violence to protect the conspiracy"
Sad, Sad.

Hopefully, those Hi-Res photos that may be forthcoming will quiet these...er, persons.

Tom Edmonds

Steve Procter
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posted 09-10-2002 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Procter   Click Here to Email Steve Procter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, but can the hoaxer prove the punch landed? Was it a hoax punch? Conspiracy theorists - was there a second puncher??

By the guys own argument - millions seeing the event live on TV, actual witnesses to the event on the spot and piles of physical evidence count for nothing at all !

Your witness....!

Steve

Rizz
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posted 09-10-2002 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, you are absolutely correct.

It was a "hoax punch".

It never really happened.

To infinity and beyond, way to go Buzz!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-10-2002 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it wasn't bad enough that Sibrel is calling the Apollo moon missions fake, he verbally assaults Buzz after being asked to leave and then instructed by the building's doorman to vacate the property. Even after the cameras are restrained (yet still rolling) Sibrel once again gets into Buzz's face, calling him a coward and a liar.

Buzz returns with with a pop to the guy's nose. Sibrel wasn't hurt -- no blood is spilled -- and he continues chasing Buzz across the street (even if his cameraman refuses to follows).

Sibrel got exactly what he deserved.

(Incidentally, this isn't the first time Sibrel and his crew have harassed moonwalkers. He was thrown out of the Astronaut Hall of Fame induction last year after pulling the same bible stunt with John Young, Bill Anders and Al Worden. This not even his first confrontation with Buzz -- that was also last year at either an NSS or SFF conference.)

star51L
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posted 09-10-2002 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for star51L   Click Here to Email star51L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Magnificent Retaliation"

Way to go Buzz, count me in the defense fund.

Paul
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posted 09-10-2002 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I forgot about the John Glenn incident a few years ago!!

Buzz and John, two heroes and charter members of the "Senior Boxing Tour!" Throw a punch for me!!

Paul

Rodina
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posted 09-10-2002 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Sibrel wasn't hurt -- no blood is spilled --

Too bad.

Apparently he was sacked from his job as a cameraman from an NBC affiliate in Tennessee after he was arrested for trespassing on the Ohio farm of a certain other Apollo astronaut.

apollo11lem5
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posted 09-10-2002 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apollo11lem5   Click Here to Email apollo11lem5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All I can say is "Go Buzz" !! Whatever justice may or not have been dealt out by Buzz was fully deserved and not enough. My friend Bill and I dealt with those same 2 clowns last year at the AHOF induction ceremonies at KSC. They gave Bill Anders and Al Worden a very rough time !! We went out in search of them with somewhat evil intent as they were ruining events with their bible routine. They were lucky and so were we that it took us so long to locate them. When we caught up with them near the front gate, they "bravely" denied doing anything so I told them to watch it and we went on our way. The really strange thing is that my friend and I are 2 of the calmest and easy going people you could ever meet. However, their verbal assault on such a gentleman as Mr. Al Worden got our blood boiling big time. We heard about but did nit witness their assault on Mr. Anders.I think they knew that we were angry and wanted none of what we were wanting to give them. Good for Buzz!!!!!!!!! " Magnificient Retaliation" !! Good Landing Buzz !!! Donald Brady

Blackarrow
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posted 09-10-2002 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rodina has a point: the authorities are unlikely to prosecute Buzz Aldrin if the circumstances are as indicated. But that may be missing the point: this person, Sibrel, tried to get Buzz to swear on the Bible that he has been to the Moon. He may now get his opportunity, by suing Buzz for damages for alleged assault. If he sues, Buzz can ignore the suit and risk an award by default, or he can defend himself. He could, of course, do that without himself giving evidence, simply by having his lawyer cross-examine Sibrel, but he may feel obliged to give evidence to explain the circumstances fairly and completely. That would, of course, require him to....swear on the Bible! And Sibrel's lawyer could cross-examine Buzz to his heart's content about the "hoax" nonsense. (That might bring this ridiculous business to a head!) I'm not familiar with American law, but I assume Buzz could lodge a counterclaim for damages for harassment, assault, etc. (There seem to be stories in the press every day of American juries awarding millions of dollars to people who have been "upset" . Buzz would surely have a much better case!)The right sort of jury could be persuaded to throw out Sibrel's claim, award Buzz a shed-load of money as compensation for harassment, and make total idiots of the "hoax people."

Rizz
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posted 09-10-2002 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I understand of the law, (correct me if I'm misinformed)if Sibrel touched Buzz first, Sibrel got and deserved what was coming.

Additionally, someone legally should put a short leash on this "moonwalker stalker", if in fact he has a history of causing a scene.

It's a drag hearing about stuff like this.

Glad Buzz clocked him.

Aloha

Rodina
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posted 09-10-2002 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know California's particular statutes on self-defense, but at common law (and a lot of stuff is just codified common law) you can't use force beyond that necessary to protect yourself (that standard becomes much lower (i.e., you can use more) if you are in your home). Here Buzz presumably had an ability to flee - and so is not justified in retaliating.

That said, the point about swearing Buzz in in court won't really play out the way this jackass wants. All courts in the United States can take what's called "judicial notice" of facts which are incontravertible. For instance, you don't need as a lawyer to prove that the sun rose at 7:13 a.m. on some day by bringing in experts. If there is some question as to the time of sunrise (say for visibility of a witness to some crime near dawn), the judge will simply accept this as a fact and move on. It need not be tried by the jury as a fact.

Here, Seitel (hereinafter "Jackass") risks the judge just taking Judicial Notice of the fact that 12 men, including Buzz Aldrin, have walked on the moon. The judge isn't going to let either side call in any expert witnesses to testify as to whether we went there or not because, in this criminal case (which won't happen), because it's utterly irrelevant to Buzz's (possible) criminal liability. If someone calls you a liar, you can argue pretty effectively that you were provoked, even if you are, in fact, a liar.

Now, if this were to go to a civil case (and it probably will - this is the bigger problem for Buzz) we've got a slightly more complex issue.

  1. Jackass sues Buzz for battery.
  2. Buzz defends, claiming to have been provoked.
    • This goes to whether Buzz is liable for the act. Incitement is a defense (if I recall correctly)
  3. Jackass counters, saying that Buzz wasn't provoked - since what he said was true (i.e., we didn't go to the moon).
  4. Buzz then argues that oh yes we did.
  5. The Judge can then say:
    • To hell with this, we're going to take judicial notice of the fact that we went to the moon - and we're not going to waste the courts time discussing it (i.e., Buzz will never have to answer the question, even if he would hesitate to do so)
    • Well, let's call in an expert or two to see if we can prove the point.
...in which case:
  • Jackass brings in his "Experts"
  • Buzz brings in his Experts (say, Jim Lovell or Gene Cernan, who've been there twice)
  • The Judge (or the jury) will then make a finding of fact as to whether we did or did not go to the moon. Guess how that fact is going to be determined? Yes, we went to the moon.
  • And Jackass will never, in any case, get to ask Buzz (although, in this remote situation, he might get to ask some other astronaut as Buzz couldn't testify to the point because he's himself on trial).
Under no circumstance does Jackass get to ask Buzz the question in open court (even if Buzz would somehow hesitate if called on by a lawful court, which of course he wouldn't).

coloradoguy
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posted 09-11-2002 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coloradoguy   Click Here to Email coloradoguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to donate money to Mr. Sibrel - so that he takes Lance Bass's place on the space station since ego boy can't go.

As they beat the he** out of him in space, no one would hear him whine, I mean scream.

On the flip side, way to go grandpa! A 72 year old popping a 37 year old. One should never mess with a person who puts their life on the line. Period.

sts205cdr
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posted 09-11-2002 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sts205cdr   Click Here to Email sts205cdr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't seen the videotape, but hey, it's unlawful in California to batter anyone who shoves a bible in your face.

I agree with your first assessment, though, that no one would prosecute Buzz Aldrin for this, let alone the State of California. I just hope it isn't settled anywhere near "Jackass's" satisfaction...

Yeah, the whole thing is a downer.

--John

Rizz
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posted 09-11-2002 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rodina, thanks for the info. I've a question based on part of your response:"Here Buzz presumably had an ability to flee - and so is not justified in retaliating."

If Jack was just in his face and never laid a finger on Buzz, the ability to flee is certainly an option.

On the other hand, if Buzz was physically provoked by a push or a shove, seems he would have every right to defend himself and the battery charge could fall back on Jack.

I don't know any details other than what has been posted, so my point of view may be pointless.

Hope Buzz prevails.

Aloha,

Rizz

Rodina
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posted 09-11-2002 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
I've a question based on part of your response: "Here Buzz presumably had an ability to flee - and so is not justified in retaliating."

If Jack was just in his face and never laid a finger on Buzz, the ability to flee is certainly an option.

On the other hand, if Buzz was physically provoked by a push or a shove, seems he would have every right to defend himself and the battery charge could fall back on Jack.


The thing is, you don't. You have a right to defend yourself, but if a guy, says, comes up and slugs you and then runs away you DO NOT have a right to chase him down and slug him back. If, at the other extreme, a guy is standing over you in the gutter kicking you repeatedly, you can fight back. No case is as clear as either of these examples, of course. The reason we have trials, of course, is to decide about the grey areas in these things - but knowing only that Buzz was shoved first doesn't tell us enough.

Still. Ain't nothing going to happen to Buzz.

In the meantime, on this anniversary of the September attacks, I hope everyone will remember the victims and their families and, of course, our troops who are off fighting to protect this fine country of ours.

Pray for Peace. Work for Victory.

Cliff Lentz
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posted 09-11-2002 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff Lentz   Click Here to Email Cliff Lentz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You wonder why astronauts can be hostile to be public at times. Can you image what Neil went through over the years! I think that creep wanted this to happen as a sign that he's right. HE'S NOT! Time to go back and prove him and the other bozos wrong!

TiJon
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posted 09-11-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TiJon   Click Here to Email TiJon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can pretty much gaurantee that Mr. Sibrel will be appearing on Donahue in the near future. Sometimes I believe the only reason some of these people have been put here on earth is to process oxygen into carbon dioxide.

Scott
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posted 09-11-2002 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could someone please email me a video file (avi, mpg, wmv, etc) of this? I'm dying to see it and haven't been able to catch it on the news.

Thank you!
Scott

Aztecdoug
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posted 09-12-2002 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got my stuff back today from the recent Novaspace signing for Buzz. It felt extra good opening it up this time given the events of these past few days!

All I can say is boy, what is the world coming to when a fresh young country buck comes to the big city and gets his butt whooped by a 72 year old on the streets of Los Angeles! I guess America just doesn't grow 'em like we used to!

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!

Steve Procter
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posted 09-12-2002 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Procter   Click Here to Email Steve Procter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What more can you say other than Buzz Aldrin "Floats like an LMP, stings like a bee!"

Regards

Steve

Scott
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posted 09-13-2002 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey you think if we print a vidcap of the punch and send it to Buzz he'll sign it for free?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-13-2002 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greetings from Reno! Anyone see Letterman last night?

Top Ten Ways To Tick Off Buzz Aldrin

  1. When you meet him, make buzzing sound like a bee
  2. Squeegee his space helmet and ask for a buck
  3. Spell "Buzz" with one "z"
  4. Pronounce NASA, "Nassau"
  5. Fill his oxygen tank with piping hot clam chowder
  6. Every time he eats cheese, wink and say, "Wonder where you got that, moon man?"
  7. Ask if he is related to Ruth Buzzi
  8. Call him Spock
  9. Refer to Apollo Eleven as "That guy from the 'Rocky' movies"
  10. Hog the Tang

Aztecdoug
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posted 09-13-2002 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, you gotta let us know what the other astronauts reaction is to Buzz this weekend!

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!

Andy
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posted 09-13-2002 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy   Click Here to Email Andy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The general reaction is laughter.

Andy

nasamad
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posted 09-13-2002 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to Ed Mitchell on his site forum, he has already thrown the guy out of his home!

Adam

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posted 09-13-2002 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tylak   Click Here to Email Tylak     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The guy asked Buzz to swear on the bible that he had been to the moon, right?

Why didn't Buzz simply respond like a civilized person? How was socking the man in the face justified? If Buzz had just placed his hand on the bible and said "Yes" then there would be no problem.

Am I missing something?

Paul
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posted 09-13-2002 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I consider myself a Christian and I read the Bible occassionally.

Having said that, I do not want anybody shoving the good book in my face!

Buzz was intimidated by this loser and fed-up with the harassment! He should have followed the jab with a swift uppercut!

I've got no sympathy for the likes of Mr. Sibrel!

Paul

Rizz
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posted 09-14-2002 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's not like Buzz and Sibrel were sitting together at mass. Sibrel was rude and showed just how uncivilized and desperate a journalist he really is.

He's a nobody. He needs to learn to show a little class, respect his elders, and get a life. Not necessarily in that order.

Buzz attempted to walk away, but the guy just kept getting in his face. I don't condone violence of any kind, but enough is enough. He was harassing a 72 year old. Give me a break! He's lucky all he got was a love tap.

Aloha for now.

Rodina
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posted 09-14-2002 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tylak:
Am I missing something?
I bet of Buzz Aldrin thought that such an act might convince this fool that Apollo really happened, he might well have done so. But nothing satisfies these Hoaxers... and nothing ever will.

I mean, if the guy in -charge- of Area 51 offered the Art Bell a walking tour of the place, Art Bell would still thinking there is something -else- going on, right? There's no winning with these people and anything short of a punch in the nose is really just appeasement.

bruce
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posted 09-14-2002 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bruce   Click Here to Email bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"That's one small swipe for Buzz, one giant deed for a kind man."

star51L
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posted 09-14-2002 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for star51L   Click Here to Email star51L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It only gets better... (or worse).

scout706
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posted 09-14-2002 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scout706   Click Here to Email scout706     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's all a hoax!!! Buzz never really punched him! The video was faked!! The great Stanly Kubrik directed it from his grave!! You can't see any stars, and as everyone knows L.A. is full of stars. Where are they??? Fox Special Coming Soon!!!

Have A Good Day!!!!

Tom


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