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Author
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Topic: Four arrested for stealing moon rocks
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Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-23-2002 07:17 AM
   
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/23/stolen.moon.rocks.ap/index.html |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42985
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-23-2002 07:28 AM
No need to go off-site  You can read it in more detail here: http://collectspace.com/news/news-072202a.html |
CPIA
New Member Posts:
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Registered:
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posted 07-23-2002 11:21 AM
I hope they throw the book at them as an example. Going easy on NASA employees who steal lunar surface material, that is in such rare supply that it is illegal for private citizens to own, will help as a deterrent to future such schemes.Let's face it we would all enjoy having a sizable piece of the lunar surface. It would be our way of bringing the Moon to us. Unfortunately, it is currently illegal, you can't display it anyway. Thoughts? Larry McGlynn |
rjurek349
Member Posts: 1190
From: Northwest Indiana
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 07-23-2002 11:56 AM
I agree -- the book should be thrown at them. Anything illegal (like those people who posted here about "chipping" pieces off an Apollo display) has no place in the hobby. And you certainly have to question the intelligence of these folks. Did they really think they could get away with it -- that something as unique as Apollo lunar material (no matter where you try to sell it) wouldn't raise at least A FEW eye-brows. Man.As far as owning lunar surface material -- I recently bought a sizeable chunck of the NWA482 meteorite. It is a beautiful piece with a lot of glass veining and looks amazing not only to the naked eye, but also under the microscope. I am also thinking of having a ring made out of it. Recent studies also seem to indicate that the NWA482 piece originated on the far side of the moon! 
I noticed that the discussion of moonrocks for sale -- and the pricing of them -- hasn't really discussed the going rate of the confirmed lunar meteorite pieces. But I found it strange that they were asking 4,000-5,000 per ounce for the illegal Apollo piece. The going rate for lunar pieces is about $4,000 - $5,000 a gram.
Richard [This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited July 23, 2002).] [This message has been edited by rjurek349 (edited July 23, 2002).] |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 07-23-2002 12:52 PM
Theft of government property with a value of, say, $4K/gram (market value) or about $1M total can get you... depending on how you read the sentencing guidelines... 33-41 months at the low end, 63-78 at the high end. Assuming that they have no criminal record, but otherwise cooperate, they are probably looking at about 4 years in prison.The justice, however, comes from the fact that ain't nobody going to hire these guys for an engineering job, ever. |
Gary In NY
Member Posts: 19
From: NY,Ny
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-23-2002 01:38 PM
Hi Gang,At first after reading this story I thought that they should be locked up and have the key be thrown away, however after a cooling off period I believe these young people should be given a second chance. Our country needs to help people instead of throwing people in jail without any type of rehabilitation. I would hope that a judge will find some type of punishment other than prison. We have all seen the television show OZ. Hope everyone is having a great Summer. Gary |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-23-2002 04:58 PM
pleeeeeeeeease! Give them a chance? They had the best chance there is.. Who among us wouldn't give their eye teeth for their employment opportunity.. and they stabbed NASA in the back.. this was not a snatch and grab, this was planned!! |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 07-23-2002 06:31 PM
Since I don't think any of them have been convicted of past crimes they'll likely get probation & fines. While no jail time would likely be served, they will be convicted felons which will follow them for life. I doubt they'd be offered defered adjudication on a high profile crime like this.------------------
Happy trails,
Wayno
"...you are go for TLI."
www.TransLunarInjection.com |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-23-2002 08:19 PM
Pics of ringleader Thad hard at work in the NASA lab: http://www.physics.utah.edu/~mars/moonrocks.html
Also read his autobio: http://collectspace.com/news/news-072202b.html
and web page (check out the top where he quotes himself!): http://www.physics.utah.edu/~mars/
All the billions we spent and the many men who lost their lives to get these precious samples, and these rich dumb brats decide to steal them.
Kudos to Axel for reporting these idiots.
Scott
Houston, TX |
Alan
New Member Posts:
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posted 07-24-2002 02:10 AM
Hi Collectors,
Just wanted to point out it was a Mineral Collector from BELGIUM who send the warning to the FBI which started the investigation ! |
ALAIN
Member Posts: 355
From: GENT, Belgium
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 07-24-2002 02:29 AM
Yes, the Belgians did it again ...
I agree with the fact that they planned this as a kind of a "Quick Rich" scheme ... and should NOT be given a second chance !!!
Hundreds of others are waiting/dreaming of the opportunity they got ! |
eurospace
Member Posts: 2610
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 07-24-2002 03:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ALAIN:
Yes, the Belgians did it again ...
I agree with the fact that they planned this as a kind of a "Quick Rich" scheme ... and should NOT be given a second chance !!!
Hundreds of others are waiting/dreaming of the opportunity they got !
There is another question I am wondering about: how do you enter a high security compound like JSC and drive away with a 600 pound safe in your luggage? Can't be done in a breakfast box, can it? Do you just wear a badge, smile friendly to the guard, and then drive in and out with your truck and crane, while the sniff dogs are busy bothering elderly women from bus tours? Just wondering ..... ------------------
Jürgen P Esders
Brussels, Belgium
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies |
CPIA
New Member Posts:
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posted 07-24-2002 07:41 AM
Jurgen,I heard it was the Belgiums that planned the whole caper. Those pesky Belgiums ! Larry |
Cliff Lentz
Member Posts: 655
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-24-2002 09:03 AM
It's hard for me to understand these people. They had the opportunity to work at a NASA installation. This is something that I think all of us would give anything to do. There is a photo in Robert's story of one of them in the zero-gravity plane. How could they be that stupid. Blinded by Ebay I guess! I talked about this unpleasant matter and collecting flown objects in general on my five minute NASA update on Sportradio 610 in Philadelphia this morning. Robert, I dropped the collectSPACE name three times for you. Cliff |
eurospace
Member Posts: 2610
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 07-24-2002 10:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CPIA:
Jurgen,I heard it was the Belgiums that planned the whole caper. Those pesky Belgiums ! Larry
No, no. FBI stands for Federal Belgians of Investigation :-) ------------------
Jürgen P Esders
Brussels, Belgium
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-24-2002 10:14 AM
Hey Leave the Belgians alone!
Scott
chocolate lover |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-24-2002 12:18 PM
Hi,
I can only think of one thing:
Einstein said:
There are two things that are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; but we are not sure about the universe.
How true!
Jurg
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Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-24-2002 01:59 PM
These appear to be arrogant little $%^&*$ who have had everything go their way in life. Thus they were probably conditioned to believe they really were different over time, and could do whatever they please. If it weren’t moon rocks, they would have been involved with investment or Internet scams eventually, or perhaps worse.I hate to take the tone that they need to be taught a lesson, but I think they may need some reconditioning. Perhaps several years of turning large boulders into small rocks with a sledgehammer at the appropriate Federal facility is in order.
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NC Apollo Fan
Member Posts: 261
From: Belmont, NC USA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 07-24-2002 02:24 PM
I agree. They should be punished to the fullest extent possible. I have no sympathy for them.Jonathan |
collshubby
Member Posts: 591
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-24-2002 06:45 PM
For some people, money and greed is the most important thing, and it blinds them to what is right. I can't believe they thought they could get away with it. I am glad all of the Apollo samples were recovered.------------------
Brian Peter
astronautbrian@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~brian_space/index.html |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-25-2002 02:13 AM
As I'm the fifth Belgian on this site I have to post reply as well ...
Great find Jurgen ... Federal Belgians of Investigation ( LOL ) ...
Talking about Albert EINSTEIN ... He lived in Belgian at a coastal town for 6 months before leaving to the USA ... Nice to see the Americans on collectspace know to appreciate BELGIUM for its Chocolate, Beer and gateway to Europe ...
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MScherzi
Member Posts: 80
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-25-2002 09:14 AM
Dear Rob,While I appreciate all your efforts on Collectspace I must take issue with the headline on today's update on the stolen NASA moon rocks article. I feel that the title of "Collector-Turned-Informant Speaks Out" does a grave dis-service to the man who initiated the investigation. Axel Emmermann is a responsible citizen who saw what he believed to be a crime and reported it to authorities, even though both the crime and the authorities were in another country across an ocean, thousands of miles away. Mr. Emmermann is no more an informant than any other person who reports a crime. He is what in law enforcement parlance is a "person with knowledge" or "reporting person". An "informant" is usually someone who is trying to gain a benefit from their actions, either financial or attempting to benefit by obtaining relief for their own activities. Mr. Emmermann obviously has only positive motives and I request that you change the headline, perhaps "Guardian Angel Speaks Out" is a better headline. I realize that this is an editorial difference, and wish you well in keeping up all your great efforts on Collectspace. Matt Scherzi |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42985
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-25-2002 09:26 AM
Matt, while I respect your right to your opinion, I disagree with your conclusions.The definition of informant is "somebody who gives confidential or incriminating information to the police about somebody" (Source: Encarta World English Dictionary). Its a valid term to describe what Mr. Emmermann did when working with the FBI. Mr. Emmermann did more than simply turn over evidence to the authorities, he participated, as their agent, in a deception to apprehend the thieves. No where in the article or updates do I imply what Emmermann did was wrong. To the contrary, in an earlier update I publicly thanked him for his efforts. --
Robert Pearlman, editor
collectSPACE.com
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astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 07-25-2002 05:17 PM
Matt,
We applaude the informant's efforts...he did a good thing.------------------
Happy trails,
Wayno
"...you are go for TLI."
www.TransLunarInjection.com |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-26-2002 05:08 PM
"... thats one small bust for man.... one.. giant arrest for mankind" |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-26-2002 05:46 PM
John,
Shouldn't that be "...*a* man..."
;-)
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