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  Space Cover 649: Flown to the Moon

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Author Topic:   Space Cover 649: Flown to the Moon
cvrlvr99
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From: Arlington, TX
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posted 05-08-2022 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cvrlvr99   Click Here to Email cvrlvr99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Space Cover of the Week, Week 649, May 8, 2022

Space Cover #649: Flown to the Moon

At one time, the only American astronauts' signed cover that I still needed to complete the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo manned flights was Gemini-Titan 3 (GT-3). I had been trading my duplicate U.S. covers with five Chinese collectors for a few years, expecting that with the number of collectors in China, that there would be an increase in the desirability of early Chinese covers once their first taikonaut was launched.

That happened, and I sold my accumulation of Chinese covers for $2400. At that time a GT-3 AU cover had sold for $1,200 and when I saw a Heritage Auction house about to sell one, I decided to bid up to $2,000 on it which would have cost me $400 in fees to Heritage. My wife was a retiree from American Airlines and so I flew up to St. Louis to participate in person. Before leaving I showed her an image of an Apollo 11 Flown to the Moon cover on the cover of the Heritage Auction catalog. I told her that that cover would sell for over $23,000 and she was incredulous.

At the auction, the GT-3 cover came and went. Someone bought it for $3,200. Of course I was disappointed but that's what auctioning is all about. Several items later an Apollo 15 Flown to the Moon came up and the auctioneer said that the bidding would start at $2,000. Not expecting to get it, I held up my card number and he said, "We've got $2000. Anybody else in the room? No? Any bids on the phone? No? Email? No? SOLD FOR $2,000! I was incredulous. Fellow Space Unit member Bob Boyd called me to see if he had won two lots that I was bidding on for him and I told him that I'd snagged one for him. I also told him of my great fortune.

When I arrived home that evening, my wife was sitting on the couch, doing some sewing.

"Did you win the cover?" she asked, without smiling.

"No, but I won a Flown to the Moon cover" I told her with a huge smile.

"Oh" she said, without changing her expression.

It took two seconds for me to get the message. "No! No! Not that flown cover. Mine is from a different flight and cost $2,000."

The chill in the room started to defrost. Here's the cover that I obtained, accidentally.

Also shown is an Apollo 15 signed insurance cover from the holdings of General Jim McDivitt. I have a certificate of authenticity for this, which came with a note that the crew had given this to him.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-08-2022 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you don't mind me asking, Ray, when did you get this Apollo 15 cover from Heritage and how was it verified as being flown?

Larry McGlynn
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posted 05-08-2022 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would be curious about the cover's origin also.

randyc
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posted 05-08-2022 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure Heritage was ever in St. Louis. It may have been an auction by Regency Superior who were in St. Louis.

Was the card with the cover? The reason I ask is that it states that the cover was signed while Scott and Irwin were on the lunar surface and I don't think this cover was signed when they were on the lunar surface.

There is a Sieger cover signed by Scott and Irwin with the inscription "Landed at Hadley, Moon, July 30, 1971." The card might apply to that cover.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-08-2022 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No covers were ever signed while on the lunar surface and the signed printed insert card referred to were not associated to any of the Sieger covers. The same-type cards were also used in non-flown "souvenir" covers like this. It's me belief that Herrick more likely had the cards produced, however, the text copy on them was confusing and not accurate in my opinion.

But it would be important to know the origin and documentation of this particular cover and possibly what time-frame it had been acquired. Similar covers like this (originally produced by Herrick for Worden) had been known to be duplicated that did not go to the moon. That story in itself is quite a mystery even to this day after half a century has gone by.

It seems that Heritage within the last decade or so doesn't have this particular Apollo 15 moon cover listed in their sold archives. As Randy pointed out, Ray, are you sure it was Heritage and not Regency-Superior?

yeknom-ecaps
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posted 05-09-2022 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Years ago I saw a variation on this — it was a "phases of the moon" Herrick cover with a FDI cancel for the Space Achievements stamp (on an angle across the cover).

The cover was signed by the crew and had the card about the cover being flown to the moon like Ray's cover has.

I asked the owner of the cover about it being flown and he said it was not flown to the moon and he had paid $36 for it. He also stated he had gotten several of the cards stating "flown to the moon" along with the cover so Herrick clearly had a quantity of them printed.

This was back before we all had cell phones so I don't have an image of the cover.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-09-2022 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Tom, and that's part of the problem with the Apollo 15 Moon Phases decal-applied cachet covers as they may had been issued in another variety. I don't think Irwin remembered signing any of these outside of those 144 for Worden, however, I can't recall what Worden had told me years ago when he saw one of the other Moon Phases. As for Scott, he said nothing about them. But all of the smaller-sized covers in the category indicated by Tom did have Herrick's sticker address in Miami at bottom right. I've got a couple of these as well for the Space Achievement FDI in Aug. 1971.

So as you can see, the story continues with more questions not answered to this day, and maybe with another variety or two out there so-to-speak, I do believe that others of the exact-original flown cover batch by Worden were done that did not go around the moon. If other Moon Phases covers have no supporting documentation, it would be difficult in my opinion to know for sure if they (or Ray's cover) had been a part of that original 60/144. And for Ray, are there any markings or notations that you can see indicated on the envelope cover itself (possibly by Herrick)?

cosmos-walter
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From: Salzburg, Austria
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posted 05-12-2022 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Al Worden took 144 envelopes to the Moon. They were illustrated with a printed cachet showing 15 phases of the Moon. On board the U.S.S. Okinawa, Worden affixed “A Decade of Achievement” stamps to these covers and had them cancelled at the ship’s board post office. The astronauts autographed the Phases of the Moon covers together with the Sieger covers and the Scott covers while flying back from Hawaii to Houston. Worden’s friend F. Herrick Herrick cancelled the Moon letters of Worden with private launch and landing stamps in black or red. Herrick is said to have destroyed 16 damaged Phases of the Moon letters. Worden gave 40 envelopes to the Herrick family (28 to the father and 12 to the son). Herrick was entrusted with the rest for safekeeping.

After Sieger had sold his Apollo 15 Moon letters, NASA in 1972 impounded the 298 Scott letters, together with 60 Phases of the Moon covers which Herrick returned to Worden. NASA lawyer S. Neil Hosenball numbered and initialed these letters on the flap. The numbering of the Scott letters ran from 1 through 298, whereas the Phases of the Moon covers were numbered 299 through 358. NASA, the Senate, and the Ministry of Justice investigated the matter. The Ministry of Justice found that the astronauts had violated administrative rules, but not law. As part of an out-of-court settlement, Worden got 160 letters back on 19.07.1983. The remaining 198 letters were handed over to Scott and Irwin later. The three astronauts wrote notarized certificates of authenticity for them. They refer to the Phases of the Moon letters that had orbited the Moon. During the appointment with the notary, the astronauts adapted the confirmations for the Scott covers landed on the Moon’s surface by hand and initialed the changes made.

There are between 500 and 2,000 Phases of the Moon covers in existence that resemble the ones flown to the Moon in every detail, including the signatures of the astronauts. Only the 60 seized by NASA and then numbered and initialed by Hosenball, accompanied by the notarized authentication of the three astronauts, can be clearly identified as having been flown. Phases of the Moon letters with the Kennedy Space Center machine-postmark from the day of launch, on the other hand, cannot have been flown.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-12-2022 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your remarks Walter as I wanted you to get involved in this topic. That's the same story, as you just told, what I have read on public record in a nutshell. With possibly 2,000 more Moon Phases covers out there, I am a little bit surprised we're not seeing more of them on the open market.

Of those possible 2,000 covers that resemble the flown lunar Herrick covers in almost every detail, I do believe that another batch not having KSC-launch machine cancels were not flown as well. That may also imply that those 500-2,000 covers outside of the total 144 were not hand signed by the crew, but possibly forged, and with very good forgeries.

The Sieger covers, overall, I consider a "closed book" on those lunar surface cover developments and history. But I still have unanswered questions about those "outside" the 144 additional Herrick "moon" covers.

Getting back to Ray's cover for a moment, if not machine cancelled, did it fly as one of the original 144 if no support documentation came with it? We know of those 60 seized by NASA, as Walter pointed out, were properly documented by the U.S. government itself. But what about the others outside of that 60/144?

When Herrick let those original lunar covers go out, sold early on, didn't he provide authentication for them as a major stamp dealer? I believe some of those did have a number and his initials at the bottom-right of the envelopes and were they not continued on in the series for all the others in that same batch? Also, did any of the original covers have his own LOA for a flown moon cover?

cosmos-walter
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posted 05-12-2022 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken, I fully agree with you. Perhaps all our questions will never be solved. I remember Apollo 15 Moon Phases covers which were sold at auctions with a copy of a letter from Al Worden stating that the attached cover is a flown one.

Les Winick certified a couple of other Moon Phases covers as being flown. When I asked him about the features he did neither have any documentation left nor did he recollect the details.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-12-2022 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Understood Walter, and yes, I did see copies of the Worden letter that he wrote to help support Herrick's moon covers. That was, however, early on penned by the CMP before the big fiasco got underway by our federal government.

Once Herrick got the covers in the mail from Worden to him in Miami, FL, the stamp dealer had requested a letter in Worden's hand that would positively support his flown covers around the moon claim. But Worden's letter, or copies of it, had been used for improper verifications for similar unflown Moon Phases cover groups.

cvrlvr99
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From: Arlington, TX
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posted 05-14-2022 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cvrlvr99   Click Here to Email cvrlvr99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry that I haven't checked this site for awhile. The first response was correct. This was not a Heritage, but a Regency-Superior auction, held at their office in St. Louis. That was about a decade ago.

Also on the back of the covers are the two red hand stamps that read "Launch July 26 -1971" and "Recovery Aug: 7, 1971". These red hand stamps were applied by Herrick to the 144 covers returned by Worden to Herrick.

Inside the cover was the card which stated that the covers were carried to the moon. I've read that this had been the intent but the idea was scrapped. From this, it appears that the cards were created before that decision was made.

cvrlvr99
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From: Arlington, TX
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posted 05-14-2022 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cvrlvr99   Click Here to Email cvrlvr99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just re-read the comments again and I failed to answer one of Ken's questions.

There were two penciled numbers on the cover, but neither seem to be of any help. There is a small "11" on the lower right hand corner of the front of the envelope. On the outside of the flap, in the upper right hand corner is the number "2463" which could be a "2963".

Also, note that Herrick hit the top 8c stamp on the front the the red rubber stamp reading "July 26". Regency-Superior did offer this as a flown cover, but I do not know where the cover originated. Per Worden's book, all three astronauts signed the real covers during the plane ride from Hawaii to Houston. It is likely that they signed these in the same sequence: Scott, Worden and Irwin.

Do the unflown Phases of the Moon covers have that same sequencing? Did any of the crew members ever report signing more than the 144 of these at a later date?

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 06-11-2022 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To answer your above question if any of the crew recalled signing additional "outside 144" moon covers, Ray, see my earlier post of May 9th above. I'm more inclined to think that the Apollo 15 astronauts did not sign for Herrick in such other categories, however, we may never know that answer and Scott, even when asked, has made no comments about the topic either in public or privately. It does seem crazy though to think that there may be between 500-2000 skilled crew autograph forgeries out there on any "outside 144" moon phase covers. Thoughts anyone?

cosmos-walter
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posted 06-11-2022 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken, do you think it might be possible that the crew signed plain covers before their flight? Perhaps they did not recognize them without Moon Phases sticker or imprint?

As I remember the number of the unflown Moon Phases covers originates in the Space Unit "Study on Suspect Space Covers". We discussed one of them here.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 06-11-2022 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, Walter, I would think the crew would never sign any amount of "blank" or no-cachet covers before launch. I just can't see that happening, certainly, with any high number of cover quantities.

Another thought I had in the back of my mind: What if Herrick paid the crew for signing additional "souvenir-type" covers before launch? Once again, that would seem highly unlikely, that he would have in the "open" such moon phase related cachet covers when he was trying to fly other similar covers to the moon. Besides, to the best of my knowledge, any earlier covers were never mentioned, discussed, nor reported by any Apollo 15 crewmen that I know of.

cosmos-walter
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posted 06-13-2022 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quotation from "Study of Suspect Space Covers" by Reuben Ramkissoon and Lester Winick, January 1975:

At least 500 and possibly as much as 2,000 of the same cover exist, identical in all details, including the personal autographs of the three astronauts. These were not carried on the Apolo 15 spacecraft and did not go into space.

"We have minutely examined a flown and unflown 'Moon Phases' cover side by side and yould not find any divverences" (spokesman for the U.S. Senate Committee on Aeronautical Aerospace Science).

"Once these covers left the hands of the astronauts, there is absolutely no way of telling a flown from an unflown cover" (spokesman for NASA).

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 06-13-2022 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I believe as well, Walter, as the unflown cover varieities are so identical in every detail it would seem.

cvrlvr99
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posted 07-10-2022 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cvrlvr99   Click Here to Email cvrlvr99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's one mystery that still bothers me. The PRS cancel. Especially on the three stamps that were used on these covers. I have seen KSC cancels with the Phases of the Moon.

So far I have not seen anywhere where the on-board cancel was addressed. Any ideas out there?

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 07-10-2022 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems to be complicated with little known information not coming from Herrick himself. I can't say for sure, Ray, but it looks like many of he flown Herrick covers did have a label address on them, whereas, others of that 144 batch may have not, which has always been bothersome to me. Of the 84 that Herrick had and 60 that Worden had originally, I believe most if not all of them were consistent in all identifying characteristics. But that's only an assumption of mine with no backing-up proof.

Regarding the PRS cancels. They all look genuine to me, however, could it be that Herrick produced more than 144 covers of that original "to-be-flown" batch (possibly even a few hundred more)? That may help explain why some of the "unflown" covers were recovery ship cancelled, and of course, many others with the same type cachet characteristics were KSC-launch day posted. If any intended moon phase covers were not actually with Worden on Apollo 15, it would seem most likely that the Miami stamp dealer would have mailed them for onboard-ship splashdown cancels, would make sense to me, but were not flown.

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