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Author
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Topic: Space Cover 638: Surprise Apollo 11 ONCs
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1809
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 02-06-2022 12:39 PM
   
Space Cover of the Week, Week 638, February 8, 2022  Space Cover 638: Surprise Apollo 11 official NASA/KSC cachetsA surprise, because I didn't even know such things existed back in 1969. Way back then I was only a stamp collector, specializing in US stamps and First Day Covers, but also had a big interest in what was going on in space. But my space collecting only involved saving newspapers and magazines about the big space events, such as Alan Shepard's and John Glenn's Mercury flights and Apollo 8. But because of the excitement and historical significance of men landing on the moon on Apollo 11, I decided to send covers to the Kennedy Space Centr (KSC) post office for Apollo 11, expecting just canceled covers to be returned. But going beyond just wanting covers canceled for the launch, I also sent covers to KSC asking for them to be canceled for the moon landing and others also for splashdown - that was asking a lot.  Upon receiving my covers back I was very pleasantly surprised to see the small blue Apollo 11 rubber stamp impressions nicely added to my covers. Not knowing anything about official NASA/KSC cachets (ONCs), I believed that they were a special one-time extra just because of the significance of Apollo 11. But later in 1972 when I belatedly started collecting space covers and upon learning about them did another surprise happen, as I learned that the KSC post office typically only applied their official NASA/KSC cachets for launch events and not for other events, such as moon landings and splashdowns. So ever since I have always wondered why my requests for Apollo 11 moon landing and splashdown cancels were also given the special treatment of ONCs for both moon landing and splashdown?! Of course, covers do exist with NASA/KSC ONCs for other non-launch events, but they often were the result of special favors for insiders and privileged collectors. So, whatever, these old covers, where I used cheap drugstore envelopes and addressed them with an old manual typewriter, have remained special parts of my collection and my first actual space covers. Many more were to follow starting with Apollo 16. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-08-2022 06:53 AM
What a great introduction, Bob, into space cover collecting. It certainly does appear that your letter request for Apollo 11 major event cancels impressed someone within KSC's Mail & Distribution Services. Perhaps it was Estelle Coleman, a mail management specialist at the time, that had always been very cooperative to mailed-in requests from collectors.As you have pointed out, by receiving non-launch cancel dates for moonlanding and splashdown, I don't think non-launch events were complied with. But on top of that your three covers also received the official NASA cachet for Apollo 11's launch that included July 20 (lunar landing) and July 24 (ocean recovery), now that's special and not the norm. NASA's policy all throughout that era remained the same, but right after the last Viking launch to Mars in Sept. 1975, the space center's postal division issued this statement: "We (KSC) will hold your envelopes for any launch cancellation that you request, but there will be no hand stamp cachet. You would only receive a regular KSC-machine cancellation on the day of the launch." |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 02-08-2022 01:50 PM
Bob and Ken, do you imagine the Apollo 11 Official was applied at the same time and the Moon Landing and Splashdown postmarks applied later in the week? The Jul 20 ONC, for example, looks almost exactly in the same place (applied by machine?). I suspect all (except "favor" applications) ONCs were run on the 16th and the requests for postmarks for the 20th and 24th were placed in trays for later cancellation. Does this sound right? |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1809
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 02-09-2022 08:36 AM
That's an interesting theory, David, and it would make sense that all covers coming in for Apollo 11 would receive ONCs at the same time, then my covers, all with ONCs, were separated and then canceled for the three events I asked for.Upon checking my Apollo 11 ONCs, I found that I had sent in two covers for each event, so I have a second Apollo 11 KSC/ONC cover each for launch, moon landing and splashdown. Unfortunately, my second launch cover received somewhat of a second, double ONC rubber stamp impression, making it look somewhat smeared. With the Apollo 11 moon landing and splashdown covers with ONCs appearing to be rare, I'd be glad to let any *serious* ONC collector have them for postage. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 497
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 02-09-2022 10:18 AM
Don’t know if this will add to the discussion: |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-09-2022 01:24 PM
Just my 2-cents, but I would agree with David and Bob in their assessment concerning the Apollo 11 ONC's. I do believe that Bob's mailed-in covers to KSC's Mail & Distribution Services received their ONC's at the same time when the covers arrived at KSC. It just makes more sense that all of his covers for launch, moon landing, and splashdown were ONC applied together and sorted out for each Apollo 11 event for machine cancel processing. Also, David, in Feb. 1971 Ralph Yorio of the KSCPS did indicate that most earlier ONC's had been applied by a machine-meter type (Pitney Bowes) device. At that time the Apollo 11 first anniversary a year earlier in 1970 and the Apollo 13's ONC's for launch that same year were by hand and not by the normal machine application. The hand- applied ONC's, from my understanding, started after Apollo 12 as the machine-printed ONC for the second manned lunar landing flight had been poorly reproduced (and perhaps damaged in some way?). Below are a few more unusual ONC cover applications, many combined with other printed cachets, that I wanted to share. Most all of them have non-launch cancel events, such as moon landing and splashdown, from Apollo 10 (1969) to the second Viking mission to Mars (1976). The bottom row of covers on the second panel display presentation has an Apollo-Soyuz ONC applied, not on launch day, but on splashdown day of July 24, 1975. Another ASTP cover depicted on the first panel display shows a rare KSC-launch day cancel using the first day release issue of the new ASTP 10-cent stamp pair. Such ASTP cover combinations utilizing the official NASA cachet (ONC) for ASTP in this capacity was strictly forbidden, but there was a "legal" way to do it, but just on a very few limited covers. Perhaps one of my all-time favorite space covers in this category would be on the top row, third cover entry from left. This is the only ONC that I have seen over-printed on a popular Carl Swanson Space Craft Cover for man's first moon landing on July 20, 1969, at NASA's Kennedy Space Center.  
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thisismills
Member Posts: 473
From: Michigan
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-09-2022 04:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
I'd be glad to let any *serious* ONC collector have them for postage.
I would give them a good home in my ONC collection if they are still available. I'd also send you something in return as well. Email me if you'd like. Jeff |
micropooz
Member Posts: 1624
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 02-09-2022 05:13 PM
Thanks for the memory jogger on the Apollo 11 landing date SCC with the ONC overprinted, Ken. I've got one of those too! Plus an Apollo 11 launch (7/16/69 KSC) SCC with ONC overprint, and an Apollo 12 launch (11/14/69 KSC) SCC with ONC overprint. They came from the collection of our dear, departed friend Jane Beville... |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-09-2022 05:31 PM
I wonder how many of the Apollo 11 combo-ONC/SCC covers were done, Dennis? So at least we know two were produced and perhaps a few more. While I do recall Jane Beville's name, I don't recall knowing her, and was she one of the pioneer space cover collectors? Your Apollo 11/12 launch ONC/SCC covers sound great. |
randyc
Member Posts: 835
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-09-2022 06:21 PM
Covers with an official NASA cachet are some of my favorite space covers. I started collecting them in 1969 and have over 137 different covers with official NASA cachets, including Apollo 7 covers with a red and blue Saturn V prototype cachet, covers with blue, black and red cachets, covers with two official NASA cachets of different colors and Spacecraft Swanson covers for the Apollo 5 launch and the Apollo 11 moon landing with official NASA cachets. The only cover that I need with an official NASA cachet is the elusive Apollo 204 cover. If anyone has this cover that they're willing to sell please let me know. |
micropooz
Member Posts: 1624
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 02-09-2022 07:41 PM
Ah apologies Ken! I had thought that you knew Jane. She had a stamp shop in Waco, TX and a space cover collection bar none. She mentored a number of space cover collectors including Ray Cartier, Bob Boyd, Terry Chamberlin, and yours truly.
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kosmo
Member Posts: 497
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 02-09-2022 09:24 PM
This is off topic, kind of, Ken is there an ONC for the Apollo 8 launch and/or splashdown? If so what does it look like? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-09-2022 10:18 PM
The Apollo 8 ONC, kosmo, wasn't a rubber stamp cachet, but actually a 1 1/4" x 2" peelable white-blue decal sticker-type label that NASA had provided to collectors. The same had also been provided for Apollo 7 launch day covers, though, it was a bigger size label. You can see both of them on a prior posting of mine here on cS, I believe, in an ONC topic forum. They were depicted not too long ago as part of a series or set of all the ONC's issued from 1965-75 here at Kennedy. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 05:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by randyc:
Covers with an official NASA cachet are some of my favorite space covers.
Your ONC collection sounds fabulous and maybe you can share some of the more unusual ONCs with us. Besides the ones shown here, do you know of any other Apollo-Soyuz ONC covers that got the first day issue stamp pair applied along with docking and/or splashdown dates?The different ONC varieties that you have with different rubber stamp designs, ink colors, etc., of those not used for public distribution, I am sure originally came from Dusty Rhodes and Eberhard Colle. Did you by any chance acquire all of those prototype and not used rubber stamp devices? I have seen a few others offered in space auctions a while back, and if I am not mistaken, even in one or two more collections that I know of. It would be good to know more about this unique area of ONC postal history. Thanks Randy for anything else that you can share. Unfortunately Randy, to answer your question posted above, I only have one of the rare or elusive AS-204 KSC-tragedy covers of only 40 reported or known. It was shown here on a prior ONC topic posting. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 497
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 07:34 AM
Ken, I found what appears to be an Apollo 8 ONC for the splashdown, your thoughts? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 08:56 AM
Unfortunately, kosmo, this is not an official NASA rubber stamp cachet as none were produced for Apollo 8. It was more likely from a space cover dealer that had unofficially reproduced the ONC from that era. I have seen them before and knew the dealer. |
thisismills
Member Posts: 473
From: Michigan
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-10-2022 09:43 AM
Great topic Bob!I wanted to share this cover of mine with a GT-5 cachet (both front and back) on a very late date (Sept 14) which is signed by the KSC mail clerk. I wonder how this cover came to be and what this date has to do with GT-5, if anything? Interestingly enough, through my research I found an article in the KSC publication Spaceport News from Sept 9th, showing John Markovich in the mailroom. The article discusses the KSC machine cancel and operations at the post office basically at the same week as the cover, a neat coincidence. Did anyone know or meet John during his time at KSC? Would love to hear any stories.  
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yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 768
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 02-10-2022 10:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
I wonder how many of the Apollo 11 combo-ONC/SCC covers were done
- Apollo 5 - 18 ONC
Apollo 11
- Launch - Ray Burton provided 150 KSC cancel covers but only 20 had ONC
- Moon Landing - 174 KSC - ?? ONC
- Recovery - 119 KSC - ?? ONC
- Apollo 12 - 15 ONC
Apollo 14
- Launch - unknown number ONC
- Moon Landing - unknown number ONC
- Moon Liftoff - 10 ONC
recovery - unknown number ONC
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Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 10:42 AM
That's great information Tom about the SCC/ONC combos that I had forgotten Ray Burton handled, and I believe, for Swanson and Fitzpatrick of SCC?My visits with Ray long ago usually involved current space cover business and work between us, but not other issues as this. So glad that you were able to determine what Apollo missions and quantities were provided, and wow, I didn't realize how many covers were done in this special category. Would love to get a few others that I don't have. |
yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 768
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 02-10-2022 11:07 AM
As an interesting historical note, Ray Burton did service all the KSC covers for SCC/Swanson/Fitzpatrick.Ray started with the 18 covers for Apollo 5 but they had the ONC. Fitzpatrick did not like that but printed the SCC over it anyway. For future flights (until Apollo 11), Ray added labels to the lower left corner of the envelopes where the ONC would be applied, he would then REMOVE the ONC so the SCC cachet could be applied. For Apollo 11, Fitzpatrick changed his mind and thought it would be ok to leave the ONC. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 11:34 AM
For Jeff, I never knew nor met John Markovich that I can recall as I wasn't even in Florida until late 1968. I do know his name, however, I believe he was the head or lead mail clerk in charge when the KSCPO first opened. But it looks as though he (John E.) left that position and transferred over to another NASA job a year or two later. That was in the nearby MSO Building at NASA's Quality Surveillance Division (LS-QAL-22) working on the Apollo Command/Service Modules. At the time, Forrest "Dusty" Rhodes was his boss or supervisor since Rhodes was the chief of the Mail & Reports Management Section that handled all the mail distribution and support services at KSC. As to the unusual GT-5 airmail ONC covers referred to, Jeff, I just don't know. Perhaps there were a few covers, one was even addressed to pioneer aviation cover collector Harry Gordon, that had received ONC's a month earlier that had not been posted for the GT-5 launch. They might had been brought back to the KSCPO whereas Markovich machine cancelled them and signed them on request as I don't think the date on them is anything specific. It's just a wild guess. Any other thoughts? |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 02-10-2022 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by kosmo:
Don’t know if this will add to the discussion...
I think your Apollo 11 rubber stamp is commercial and not a KSC Official. Am currently working on a monograph (with Ken's assistance) that will come out this year. Please share any images and insights with me so they can be included in the reference work.
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randyc
Member Posts: 835
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-10-2022 12:13 PM
I bought the Apollo 7 covers with red and blue prototype ONCs from a dealer in Germany several years ago as well as launch covers for several Gemini and Apollo missions with both blue and red ONCs on the same cover. I bought covers with a black ONC for Apollos 12, 13, 15 and 16 from a member of the KSC Philatelic Society (not Ray Burton). I don't know if these are considered "rare" covers but in addition to having covers with ONCs for events other than launches, such as moon landings, moonwalks, lunar liftoffs and splashdowns I also have covers with ONCs for the Apollo 16 rollout, rollback and second rollout and an Apollo 11 moon landing first anniversary cover with both the ONC that was applied to the cover in 1969 and the ONC that was applied to the cover in 1970. ONC covers with multiple cancels include the following: - SL-2 Launch and Splashdown
- SL-2 Launch and SL-4 Launch
- SL-3 Launch and SL-4 Launch
- SL-1 Launch and SL-4 Splashdown
- SL-2 Launch and SL-4 Splashdown
- SL-3 Launch and SL-4 Splashdown
- ASTP Launch and Splashdown
- Helios 1 Launch/Helios 2 Launch
- Viking A Launch and Mars Orbit
- Viking A Launch and Landing
- Viking B Launch and Landing
- Viking A and Viking B Launch and Landing
All of these multi-cancelled covers have only one ONC of the earliest mission. For example for the cover cancelled for the launch of SL-2 and the launch of SL-4 the cover only has the ONC for the launch of SL-2. This is because I sent the covers to the Patrick AFB or Cape Canaveral postoffices for the second cancel because I had heard, perhaps incorrectly, that KSC would not double cancel covers. That being said two of the Viking double cancelled covers have KSC postmarks so perhaps that policy was changed after the Skylab missions. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 12:51 PM
Very good Randy and the German dealer you had referred to had to be Eberhard Colle. I forgot to mention in my prior postings that I do have some Skylab ONC's with second cancels for launch and splashdown, however, I am very strong with many Viking ONC's of both dual and multi-cancel applications, also with the twin Helios sun probes as well. Some of the Vikings also have other non-KSC ONC's on them and with a few added together.I also do have a bunch of rollout covers with ONC's for the later Apollo missions. Most of mine did in fact come from KSCPS members Loyd Bostwick and Al Colella in which I had acquired their collections later on. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 497
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 02-10-2022 12:51 PM
So how are collectors ever going to tell the difference between a commercial and a KSC official cachet? The rubber stamps are inherently of low quality depending on how they were applied or when they were applied (new stamp or worn used stamp). |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 02-14-2022 07:53 PM
This is exactly what I hope to address with "KSC Officials 1965-1975". Stay tuned (and send me scans, questions, and tidbits of knowledge I can add). |
kosmo
Member Posts: 497
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 02-23-2022 09:33 AM
Would this example be an original ONC: |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3406
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-23-2022 02:50 PM
Yes, it would. |
flyboycn2007
Member Posts: 10
From: china
Registered: Aug 2016
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posted 03-15-2022 08:58 PM
Very meaningful discussion, thank you teachers, I do not know the ONC specific release background, I have a question to consult teachers:How can the rubber stamp made by the NASA be recognized by the postal department, and it can be used as a favorite stamp collecting material. It even wrote in Special Regulations for the Evaluation of Astrophilately Exhibits at FIP Exhibitions: 3.3.11 Postmarks of the launch sites and different rocket test sites in the USA are valid. Envelopes and cards with an official NASA cachet applied at the post office in Kennedy Space Centre (KSC) from 1965 to 1975 are desirable. Does the postal service have relevant documents to support it？ |
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