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Author
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Topic: Roscosmos/Russian Post ISS flown envelopes
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Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-17-2017 07:57 AM
  
Let's share with information about the Roscosmos/Russian Post Office ISS flown envelopes. Do you know whether Russian Post Office sells such envelopes or just keeps them for high ranked people like at the Soviet Union period? |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 02-17-2017 10:21 AM
There is no legal foundation to commercialize official Roscosmos/RKK Energia covers. One reason is that these covers are purely souvenir and memorabilia issues another is less "fancy."Currently there is an agreement between the Russian Post and Roscosmos of sending 100-200 covers to ISS plus special cancellations. Another batch of 100-200 covers is coming from RKK Energia. The last one is privately taken by cosmonauts via personal connections. The controversy of this story is that despite relatively high numbers, most of the official covers just stay frozen in Roscosmos storage while others are commercialized illegally. I will not be surprised if in a decade we will experience a wave of ISS/MIR flown covers from the official sources like ITC Marka. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-18-2017 05:13 AM
I was told Roscomos sends less envelopes than you indicated (100-200). Erik wrote 50. I will try to check with Roscosmos friends.I know also every time some envelopes are offered to NASA people. Roscosmos doesn't sell envelopes — quite a normal thing. But Mejmarka, their main goal is to do advertising for Russian stamps and postmarked envelopes. Nothing from their side. Even no information, strange! Some weeks ago I saw on eBay two envelopes. One by Energia (I think the same as Fimich's Energia 70th anniversary) and another one by Roscosmos with Soyuz crew. Are such envelopes often on eBay? Let's put on this page photos of Roscosmos and Energia long envelopes to have more information on this philatelic products. I know the guy from Roscosmos who started this program with the Russian Post Office. He retired some years ago. I will find him to get additional information. |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 02-18-2017 06:56 AM
My numbers are not per cover variation, but a batch of various covers sent to ISS aboard particular flight — for example ASTP 40th anniversary or one year mission of Kelly-Kornienko, there were many different covers. As per my experience of the last two to three years, such covers are rarely seen on eBay or other places and mostly can be obtained via personal connections. the prices can differ as well in the margins of two to three. My covers can be checked here. Unfortunately I don't have much of them — I started to collect astrophilately a couple of years ago. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-18-2017 10:02 AM
Great result, Efim for two years of collecting. I saw Panchenko's "footprint" together with Zaletin, and Gennadiy Padalka is also seen. There is a joke in Russian space flight "club" — "How can you be cosmonaut with such names, Padalka and Zaliotin?!!!" |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-19-2017 06:39 AM
Last week I was with some friends from the Russian cosmonaut corps and found out that in 2012 and 2016 Russian crew found aboard some envelopes from the flights in 2011 and 2015... Lost in Space!For example I know Dima Kondratiev was not too much fun with this kind of symbolic activities. That's why I have never seen his crew envelopes signed by the crew and with ISS and Russian segment seals. My friend showed me TMA-20 envelope with two postmarks — 50th Anniversary of Gagarin flight and 55 years of Sputnik. Without authographs. One of lost in space maybe. |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 02-19-2017 06:56 AM
ISS Expedition 26: |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-19-2017 10:30 AM
I think here it was Kaleri's organizing efforts for the ISS expedition envelope. I wrote about the TMA-20 envelope. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-20-2017 04:00 AM
I come back to the Apollo-Soyuz 40th Anniversary flown envelopes. I saw these envelopes with different stamps — Soyuz, Proton, Zenit and Hero of Soviet Union. The same for Energia envelopes? |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 02-21-2017 06:54 AM
Some pictures of covers I am uploading for a friend who is following this topic. No idea what these are, but he thought they might be interesting. 
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hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 02-21-2017 06:57 AM
And some more. The frame is one offered by Roscosmos to their staff members and colleagues in the space industry to mark events and anniversaries. 
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Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-22-2017 01:32 AM
Wow! If he has more envelopes, ask him to send you more photos. There are lucky people is this collecting world! Thank you for these photos! |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-22-2017 06:25 AM
Got information from a very reliable source — only 60 envelopes were sent every time to the ISS in the frame of Roscosmos/Russian Post Office agreement. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 02-22-2017 07:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Russian:
I have never seen his crew envelopes signed by the crew and with ISS and Russian segment seals.
Here is a photo of Dmitriy Kondratiev's crew (TMA-20) with all autographs of the ISS crew members.  |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-22-2017 08:02 AM
And they (Kondratiev) forgot to put the ISS seal...How did you manage to get all these photos of TMA-20 crew envelopes postmarked differently? Is the guy who sent you all these photos from NASA? |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-22-2017 11:04 AM
I am glad to have some Roscosmos covers. Here are the pictures of the ones pictured in my catalogue. 
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Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-22-2017 03:37 PM
Were these envelopes on eBay or you got them via your personal relations with cosmonauts and Star City people? |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-23-2017 12:42 AM
I got my Roskosmos covers in Moscow or Star City: Either from a cosmonaut or from somebody else with good connection to Russian space program. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-23-2017 03:12 AM
Lot 6251 of forthcoming Felzmann auction contains three Roscosmos covers. Here are two which were not yet shown in this thread. 
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Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-23-2017 05:22 AM
I checked with Energia. They and Roscosmos have a quota up to 100 envelopes each to send to the ISS. But they too send only 60.Still a probability to have a big flow of such envelopes on eBay in coming years... |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-27-2017 05:39 AM
James913 put on eBay Apollo-Soyuz 40th anniversary flown envelope. The stamp is Soviet Union hero star. I wrote I saw such an envelope in Moscow. So at least one envelope like that arrived to Houston.The seller writes only 50 flew aboard the ISS. My information — there were 60. Compatible. |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 02-27-2017 06:06 AM
I wonder why these envelopes do not bear calendar ISS postmarks — not of any kind? |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-27-2017 08:06 AM
You are speaking about the Russian Segment postmark with dates? You are right, Efim. On all Apollo-Soyuz 40th anniversary covers by Roscosmos/Russian Post Office we can see only Russian Post postmark and ISS seal. It could be an explanation - Russian crew members have a SOW (statement of work) instruction what to do with these envelopes. The SOW for these envelopes spoke only about the postmarks we see on them. Or they didn't want to put Russian Segment seal because the ASTP was Soviet-American program. |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 02-27-2017 08:52 AM
I don't think so.First, there are many shown Roscosmos covers with all appropriate Russian segment postmarks. Second, on the other ASTP covers all the postmarks are perfectly present. I have another thought, but probably Walter can shed some light? By the way, at least one shown Roscosmos cover got its "ground" version of ISS special cancellation. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-27-2017 10:59 AM
Crew members can put on their envelopes all the postmarks they want. You can see on Walter's and your Apollo-Soyuz envelopes the Russian Post office postmark the crew used also for their envelopes. The seal was aboard... and all the crew authographs. Have no doubts... if you can. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 02-28-2017 04:23 AM
As for me, two envelopes shown here could have "ground" version of ISS special cancellation. TMA-20 and TMA-01M with an only postmark for 50th anniversary of Gagarin's flight.When the seal was on the ground before the flight with some TMA-01M and some TMA-20 envelopes not sent to the ISS, this "ground" cancellation could be done. But I have never heard the seals were back from the station. Only once I know in 1988 the seal of a joint Soviet-French spaceflight "Aragatz" came back and the Star City's business-like people sent a huge flow of their envelopes with this French postmark to the market... |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-01-2017 07:26 PM
The ISS special cancellation "50th Anniversary of First Manned Space Flight" has the postal index of Moscow main post office, which is situated near Kremlin. Alexander Kaleri took it back to Earth with Soyuz TMA-M on 16.03.2011. As he told me after this landing, he did not use it other than on 60 Roscosmos covers. Dmitry Kondratyev did not use it at all. I wonder how the special postmark "50 Years First Manned Space Flight" came on this genuine on-board cover. Is it the very postmark which was on board? Soyuz TMA-21 was launched on 04.04.2011.  |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 03-02-2017 04:00 AM
The postmark arrived to the ISS with a Progress cargo ship and TMA-21 crew used it once they arrived onboard the ISS.Walter, if its your envelope, check the overlapping of the special 50 years postmark and Russian segment seal. If black colour is over the blue. It is obvious the special postmark is put first. On edit: The 50 years postmark is put after signatures and after another Russian segment seal was put! So, Kaleri prepared all his envelopes and when the cargo arrived and he got the postmark he put it on his envelopes before his landing... |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 03-02-2017 05:44 AM
TMA-21 crew never used it — this postmark was not aboard ISS while they arrived. I had a chat with Samokutyaev. According to the information I have, this postmark (the first one ever special cancellation to be used in space) was delayed and arrived to ISS in summer but not before many covers were postmarked on Earth by people close to the arrangements. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 03-02-2017 06:52 AM
It means Kaleri's envelope got it special postmark on the planet.Walter, is it your envelope and did you get it from Kaleri? I don't think Kaleri did this kind of "operation"! Efim, the postmark arrived with TMA-02M in June or with a cargo ship? Did Samokutyayev give you this information? |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 03-02-2017 11:31 AM
I do not know how exactly the postmark got to the ISS. I've heard from several different sources that the ISS special postmarks are returned to Roscosmos, "corrected" and put on storage together with some amount of covers. This "correction" means some minor changes in the details to differentiate the "glorious past" from the "illegal afterlife". On every occasion there are several dozens of covers that anyway get this "corrected" cancellation and sold to collectors. This is the comparison that I made on the covers that came to me from reliable sources - first was postmarked on ISS, the second cancellation is from "afterlife". Now, on one of the shown Roscosmos covers there is the same "correction", as far as I can see.  This is just an example. Coming back to the 2011 special cancellation, I know three types - flown, afterlife and fake plus there are covers with printed postmark that can be easily identified in closer inspection. Note, the least "creative" way of correction has been invented for ASTP 40th anniversary postmark - they just erased the "17" from the date.  Around 100 different cards and covers got this stamp. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 03-02-2017 03:46 PM
Very interesting information, Efim!I have never heard the special postmarks were returned to Roscosmos an stored there. Will try to understand where. I know where the flown envelopes are stored but the postmarks are not in the same place. More probable situation would be when these flown postmarks are "corrected" by Russian Post and stored by them. Normally it should be their property. |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 03-02-2017 04:16 PM
Probably you are right. I can only say that these special postmarks are used on Earth and we should be careful when getting such covers. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 03-03-2017 03:29 AM
With all this information I think we can see not two but three envelopes postmarked on Earth. The TMA-20 envelope with two special postmarks shown by Erik has a "corrected" after coming back from the ISS postmark - 55 Years of Sputnik (one small star lost one of its rays). |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-03-2017 07:51 AM
Russian, yes I have this cover. Since none of the cosmonauts onboard ISS with the special Gagarin postmark had it on any item, I purchased it from a Muscovite who used to have good connections. Thus I suppose, it was added on earth after its space flight. I still don't know, is it the genuine postmark, a duplicate or a fake. |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 03-03-2017 11:03 AM
Walter, it looks like an original. Maybe Efim could study it to understand whether it was "corrected" after the flight.It could be compared only with the postmark on TMA-20 envelope with autographs of the ISS crew Erik showed us. I cannot understand Kaleri's explanation to you... |
fimych
Member Posts: 228
From: Boston MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 03-03-2017 11:41 AM
I am not an expert in space mail and/or flown postmarks, so don't put too much faith in my judgment.  I only have a theory based on a logic and some pieces of information I managed to gather from different sources. In my opinion, Walter's postmark is genuine and "probably" flown (not corrected). If you need an explanation - there are much more letters to type. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-04-2017 03:11 AM
Most likely the special postmark "50 years manned spaceflight" was delivered to ISS with Progress M-09M on 30.01.2011.In Moscow I received three or four "on-earth examples" of this postmark from a non-cosmonaut Moscovite. They clearly were done with two different cancelling devices. This proofs that fakes exists. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-04-2017 05:47 AM
Attempts to mark flown items by small changes of cancellling devices have a long tradition. Back in December 1977 the first postmaster in Earth orbit Georgi Grechko removed the famous "6th star." I am aware of 10 covers which received the special ISS postmark "15 Years Sarya" before launch. Before landing Yuri Malenchenko prepared 10 covers with both variants of the special ISS postmark "55 Years Gagarin": On board it had three stars, later only two stars. My wife Karin designed the Austrian stamp used on this very cover after we heard from ISS, there would be a special ISS postmark celebrating 50th anniversary of Alexey Leonov's first-ever spacewalk. Such a postmark never arrived on board ISS.  |
Russian
Member Posts: 361
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 07-18-2017 05:34 AM
Got a very reliable information from Roscosmos that they send 60 envelopes every time either with Soyuz crew or inside Progress cargo vehicle. Once the envelopes are back 30 go to Russian Post Office another 30 are kept by Roscosmos for VIPs or for gifts.Got this MS-03 envelope for "Astronauts" exhibition at the Cité de l'Espace (Toulouse, France). On its way there!  |
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