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Author
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Topic: STS-3 / Columbia mission patch
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spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-14-2012 02:50 PM
   
Although my Crew Patches site is dedicated primarily to the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo era I included the STS-1 mission from the start because the crew wore a specific Crew Patch as opposed to the regular AB Emblem commercial patch.I always intended to add a page for the STS-3 mission too because they had an initialed Crew Patch made, which directly follows the tradition of the Apollo 17 and ASTP initialed crew patches. Now I've finally got round to creating the STS-3 page but in fact I was nudged into doing this because patch collector Colin Burgess (not the author) pointed out to me that the crew did not wear the standard AB Emblem mission patch on their flight suits, as shown by the flown patches Jack Lousma sold in the Heritage November 2011 auction. On the new page I list this patch design as a possible Crew Patch for the mission, along with the widely-known, but very rare, Initialed Crew Patch. I'd be interested to know what people make of this. Was this patch actually an early commercially-available version of the AB Emblem patch? Is this design rare? |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-14-2012 04:29 PM
To my surprise, I found one in my box of extras. Thanks for pointing this out, never realized a version with three different colors in the star existed. One question: if this was the version on the flight suits, why it is classified as not flown on your website? |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-14-2012 05:12 PM
I have just looked through my collection and spares box, but no luck, all mine are standard AB Emblem ones.Until today I had not seen or heard of this three different coloured star variant crew patch. So in my opinion, I would say this patch design is very rare and was never commercially available Chris. It will be interesting to see how many more of these patches will turn up in other members collections, spares and odd boxes? |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-14-2012 05:14 PM
It's corrected now, thanks.It may be that this patch isn't actually rare, but I guess we'll need to hear from a few collectors to get a clearer picture. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-14-2012 07:13 PM
Neat find, Chris. It will be interesting to see how many of these are out there. I used to have a vintage STS-3 that I gave away about a year ago. Now I am left wondering what I might have given away... |
mama04
Member Posts: 151
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 03-15-2012 01:23 AM
I have one as well. Always thought of it as a variation and nothing special. Thank you for pointing that out to us Chris. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-15-2012 05:11 AM
Seeing Maarten's post this morning made me think of the eBay lots sold from the estate sale last August, where presentation pieces from the retired vice president of sales and marketing at AB Emblem, Mr Paul E. Gilsdorf where auctioned off.Yes bingo! Lot No. 200643282137 had one of these STS-3 'Crew' patches which was part of a presentation piece of a launch photo of Columbia on the STS-3 mission, the 'Crew' patch itself, and a hand written and signed dedication by Jack Lousma and Gordon Fullerton to Paul E. Gilsdorf thanking him for supplying the 'Emblem for this mission'. So I would say that this is indeed very good proof that these STS-3 'Crew' patches where in fact manufactured by AB Emblem. The eBay images I have and the description from the seller say this presentation piece does have some fading and moisture damage to the bottom of the item where the dedication and signature of Jack Lousma is. But Gordon Fullerton's signature is bold and sharp under the 'Crew' patch. This item sold for $41.21 with eight bids from five bidders. (I think the winning bidder got a real bargain for this item). Another possible one of these patches was sold on eBay Lot No. 370565720408 on the 12th December 2011 in a lot of three AB Emblem Shuttle patches, (STS-3, STS-41D, and STS-28) for $3.76 with four bids from two bidders, the seller was Jaxell42. But again the eBay image I have of these three patches is not sharp, but the characteristics of this 'Crew' patch seams to be present. One other point I will make is that the Swissartex version of this STS-3 patch is very similar to this STS-3 'Crew' version patch, and could be easily mistaken for it. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-15-2012 08:17 AM
Closer inspection of my patch learns that the wing leading edges of the crew patch are embroidered in light gray, a color not present in the 'commercial' version. Also, the outer orange in the star is not as bright - this is no fading, but really a different color. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-15-2012 08:27 AM
Wish I had known of this before I saw Lousma at KSC in early February... but he does enough appearances there that someone should catch him, show him the site, and ask him. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-15-2012 09:01 AM
I believe Kevin's post regarding the AB presentation piece proves that the patch was made by AB Emblem.That leaves two possibilities: - The design was produced by AB for NASA in a separate production run to the standard commercial version.
... or ... - This was AB's first commercial version, which was superseded at some stage by the better-known cut-edge version.
Incidentally, I have tried to look at some of the other early shuttle missions to see if any other crews wore a distinctly different patch.The online photos are generally of very poor quality but as far as I can see STS-1 and STS-3 are the only crews to have worn a different patch, at least through to STS-9. If others have access to better photos maybe they could check this. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-15-2012 02:29 PM
Here is the clearest image I could find of the patch sewn to the crew's flight suits (via Retro Space Images' STS-3 disc). Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a similar close up of the launch and entry pressure suits' patches.  |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 304
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 03-15-2012 03:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
Closer inspection of my patch learns that the wing leading edges of the crew patch are embroidered in light gray, a color not present in the 'commercial' version. Also, the outer orange in the star is not as bright - this is no fading, but really a different color.
I was able to find two of these STS-3 patches and both look like Erik described them. |
NJSPACEFAN
Member Posts: 128
From: Ocala, FL USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-15-2012 03:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a similar close up of the launch and entry pressure suits' patches.
The pressure suit patch can be seen in this display sold at Heritage last fall. All his pressure suit patches are attached to the mounting. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 03-15-2012 07:28 PM
There is quite a story behind how this patch came to be. My wife and I were lucky enough to have dinner with Jack Lousma at a Spacefest event some years ago and he shared his memories of the patch design.The artwork is actually a blend of talent from both Alan Bean and Bob McCall. Bean did some of the original sketches but as he had moved away from NASA and into art full time, Lousma was up against a deadline to get the patch submitted for approval. He solicited the assistance of McCall just days before the deadline and flew out in a T-38 to see him with a stack of drafts from Bean. McCall put the finishing touches on the design (the sunburst, representing the thermal tests done on STS-3 is very typical of his work) and Lousma was able to get it approved in time to have the patches made for the flight. It's a great conversation starter if you have the chance to talk with Mr. Lousma. Of course, for the pilots, you might want to start off with the "Wheely at White Sands" ...one story I'll never forget! |
KSCartist
Member Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 03-15-2012 08:11 PM
I heard the same story but it was reversed. Bean finished what McCall had begun. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 03-15-2012 08:50 PM
Ah... when I think about it, you could be correct. The references I find online credit McCall with the work with no mention of Bean. I do remember him specifically saying that he flew out to see him at the last minute, and that he had difficulty getting the colors just right in the sunburst.With the time issue, it may have been that he brought drafts back with him for Bean to finish up in Houston. Either way, the two artists' contributions made a great piece of art, and has always been one of my favorite patches. I'm actually kind of partial to the Lion Brothers version because it was the first one I obtained and I like the three-dimensional threading in it. That set of flown patches directly from Lousma's collection would be the definitive set to own, though. |
benguttery
Member Posts: 547
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 03-15-2012 09:19 PM
I have seven versions of the STS-3 patch, including the two initialed, but not this one. One I have is very, very close. I will check my box of spares and see what it might have. Thanks for the keen eyes and interesting stories. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-16-2012 02:57 PM
Just to let you all know that Chris has updated the new STS-3 page on his website with some changes to the descriptions. The addition of two extra patch types, Swiss Artex and [STS3UNK1] patches. Plus additions to sales of the 'JR' and 'CG' initialed crew patches in the footnotes. |
KAPTEC
Member Posts: 578
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 03-17-2012 01:21 PM
Great! Right now I discovered that mine is a vintage Swiss Artex patch, bought in Houston (Space Photos) in the time of the mission. Thank you guys!  |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-20-2012 10:33 AM
I've just had an e-mail from Chris Spain about an image of the STS-3 'Crew' patch in the presentation piece which was sold on eBay last August. It seems to be a variant to the flown one sold in November at the Heritage auction and the one shown in the image above. Could this be a prototype for the 'crew' patch? This patch seems to have a couple of odd traits to it. I don't see the bright yellow thread in the center that's there in the flown version, although there does seem to be a separate fill area there. Also, the base of the Canadarm has a break line of thread that's not in the 'crew' version.Otherwise it seems clear that it's the same basic design.  
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Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-23-2012 06:55 AM
Here are images of the STS-3 'crew' patch owned by Maarten Wijnmaalen (mama04). It is a near perfect match to the flown example sold at auction in the four patch presentation piece last November. This patch has a thin plastic coating on the back. These images have now been added to the crew patches website.  One of these STS-3 'Crew' patches has now been listed for sale on eBay, lot 170812680036, so it will be very interesting to see what response it will attract and receive. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-28-2012 08:32 AM
One example of this STS-3 'crew' patch, (the same as in the images above), has just been sold with a Buy It Now/Best Offer on eBay for $75.00, lot 160693797913. The original Buy It Now was $109.99.This patch was part of a listing of 13 AB Emblem Shuttle patches, which had been first listed in late November 2011, and had been continually re-listed from then on till now. This lot had 85 viewers on the counter, and only one person asked the seller a question relating to this patch. This was the first one of these patches worn by the crew during the mission to be listed and sold on eBay, since being recognized as the 'crew' patch.
The second is still running and has just a few hours still to go. It is currently at $107.50 with 14 bids from 6 bidders so far.
But I feel there will be a rush of bids at the very end of the auction time. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-01-2012 07:40 PM
It finally sold for $203.50 with 16 bids from 8 bidders. |
carl walker
Member Posts: 360
From: Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 04-02-2012 06:45 AM
Tell me about it, I had to go to bed, work today, couldn't stay up to join the rush at 2am CEST. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-02-2012 07:10 AM
It was 01:32am British Summer Time for me Carl.  |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 04-02-2012 08:50 AM
I have to say this kind of reaction makes me almost reluctant to announce a 'new' patch on my site. A patch that was likely sold many times over the years for a few dollars suddenly becomes a must-have item and sells for $200+. I can't help feel that this particular patch is probably not that rare and that we'll see examples turning up from time to time. With a little patience - i.e. not rushing to buy the first example to appear at any cost - it should be possible to pick up an example without taking out a mortgage. |
carl walker
Member Posts: 360
From: Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 04-03-2012 10:53 AM
Thanks Chris! Your reference work is invaluable! But it wasn't at any cost for me... sense and a good night's sleep prevailed! ...part of the fun there is being patient for 'good scoops' to come along! |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-03-2012 03:36 PM
A second example of this STS-3 'Crew' patch was sold with a Second Chance Offer/Buy It Now for $201.00, lot 180855458027 from the same seller as the one sold yesterday.That's now three of these STS-3 'Crew patches sold in just under a week on eBay. |
miborne
New Member Posts: 6
From: Adrian, MI, USA
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-16-2014 02:03 PM
I recently pick picked up an STS-3 patch. At first it appears to be similar to AB Emblem stitching — two color flame orange and yellow (and not the weird Swissartex colors), fully embroidered, the RMS halfway back through the cargo bay. But it has a merrowed border and not the usual stitched and cut border. Any ideas? Thanks! |
BlueHalo
Member Posts: 21
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Registered: Oct 2013
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posted 08-17-2014 12:11 AM
I checked your site Chris and I pretty much have everything on there except for the Tiger Embroidery patch, which you have identified as STS3UNK2. I also have another version of the STS-3 patches that has "On The Road Again" at the top. I acquired it probably 12 or 13 years ago and I had always wondered about this patch. Anyone know anything about it? I can tell you that it does have the signature Tiger Embroidery manufacture to it. But still an interesting piece. I have never seen the reproduction patches with the crew initials on them before. Is this something that just showed up recently or was it from the old school boys who are no longer with us and just posted on your site now? |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 10-11-2014 01:05 AM
I think I found another subtle variation of the STS-3 patch. It's almost a hybrid between the regular souvenir version and the one Chris has identified as "STS3ABV2" on crewpatches.com:Cut edge with no yellow inner flames like the A-B common version, but same odd Canadarm attachment as STS3ABV2. I've found hree examples, but I lost the reference to the third.  
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Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 10-12-2014 09:04 AM
Liem, the two STS-3 patches you show above look very much like the current version of the STS-3 patch that AB Emblem is manufacturing at this time, and is shown on its website. Though the one you show in the type 1 KSC packet can't be new as type 1 packets ended in May/June 1983. The current KSC/AB Emblem packet is a type 6. |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 10-12-2014 01:17 PM
The current AB version uses a much thicker thread on the Canadarm (and looks terrible, lacks segmentation detail and appears out of scale) and the attachment point is consistent with their older issue: on the forward part of the port side cargo bay rim. In the patches I mention the Canadarm goes into the cargo bay behind the forward bulkhead, like "STS3ABV2" (and the LB and early Swissartex versions have this style). (The patch above on yellow is this eBay item 171497515644.) |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 02-13-2016 01:03 PM
I found another patch that is similar to Kevin's post from 2012 above: a crew-like patch without the inner yellow color. It looks like there are a few A-B Emblem souvenir style patches with a merrowed edge out there. At first glance it might seem like the Swissartex version, however, the thread runouts and other subtle details are the same as the other A-B patches (including the crew version). I have only seen a few of these over the years.  
If I am looking at this thread right, there are the following versions on the patch, correct me if I'm wrong: - Crew version - wonky Canadarm, merrowed edge
- Crew-like ("STS3ABV2") - wrong Canadarm, cut edge
- Souvenir - correct Canadarm, cut edge
- Souvenir - wrong Canadarm, cut edge
(both of these versions are on dark and light blue twill)
- Souvenir - correct Canadarm, merrowed edge
- Souvenir - current product (multihead production)
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gjeovazb
New Member Posts: 7
From: Adrian, MI USA
Registered: Aug 2015
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posted 10-05-2016 09:15 PM
I was going over some of my STS-3 patches and found that I have one that may be a crew patch. It does have the tell tale signs as noted throughout this thread, but the plastic backing has the waffle texture to it. Is this texture present on the other "thin plastic backings" noted in this thread? Thanks!I also have a variation of the "crew-like" souvenir... yellow flames near the orbiter, cut edge, but correct Canadarm. |
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