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Author
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Topic: STS-4 / Columbia mission patch
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OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 01-04-2006 03:26 PM
   
For me, STS-4 is the shuttle program's plainest patch. Anyone know who made the one where Hartsfield's name curves up and is not inline with Mattingly's? It is not the 3 inch patch but a 4 inch patch. |
GoesTo11
Member Posts: 1309
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-28-2008 01:55 PM
Just bought a full-sized STS-4 patch, but without the finished edge common to most patches currently manufactured by AB.I know there is/was a smaller variation with the crew names "curved" as opposed to horizontal as commonly seen now, and without the finished edge (there's a picture on Jacques' site). How common is this version? Has anyone seen an example of this for sale anywhere recently? Thanks! |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-18-2009 03:46 PM
Maybe someone can clear this up for me. Did the early/original AB Emblem STS-4 mission patch have the heavy/thick red border like the current AB Emblem patch? I have seen older STS-4 patches that have just a thin red outline around the patch. What does the early AB Emblem patch look like? |
robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-18-2009 04:57 PM
As far as I am aware the STS-4 patch worn by the crew during the mission on their pressure suits had a red border. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-18-2009 05:23 PM
I know, but I think their crew patch only had a thin red outline around the edges. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-19-2009 01:58 AM
Thin red outline. The border was added later in souvenir versions. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-09-2012 02:10 PM
I have been in communication with Chris Spain (CrewPatches.com) this afternoon about this item and about this STS-4 patch variant.
This STS-4 patch variant at the present time is not a 'crew' patch until positive high-res photos from the mission showing the patches worn by the crew in enough detail to identify if they used this particular patch or not. So until we have these photos this is just one variant patch among many.Dose anyone here have the STS-4 Retro Space Images disc to help us with the high-res photos? I have been looking through all my examples of original AB Emblem STS-4 patches produced at the time of this mission. I have only found one example of this 'crew' variant patch with the light red/pink infill at the fold of the vapour trail. All the others were the normal souvenir versions.
It has now been established that the twill backing cloth used was mainly white, but red twill backing cloth examples also exist, but in much smaller numbers.
This variant STS-4 'crew' patch is slightly smaller than it's souvenir equivalent.  
Editor's note: Threads merged. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-09-2012 02:11 PM
Many thanks J.L. for sending me the high-res crew photos. I have forwarded them on to Chris. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-09-2012 02:11 PM
Now that we are discussing STS-4, I also have a couple of patches with curved names. Does anyone know the history of that version?Oh, and let me add that I also found the version with the pink part in my collection. And that, interestingly enough, it originally came from the same owner as the STS-3 crew patch. To my own surprise, I also happen to own the STS-4 picture CD. All the patches, worn on pressure suits, blue flight suits, caps and even by support crew are with the pink insert. I do not know what the exact size is. If I remember correctly, I once read that a 5" version was also produced especially for the crew by AB Emblem. |
mama04
Member Posts: 151
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 04-09-2012 02:22 PM
If you check the crew photo on spacefacts.de you can clearly see that it is the 'pink' version that they are wearing on their brown spacesuits. |
Besixdouze
Member Posts: 235
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 04-09-2012 02:24 PM
Have to say that looks more like a decal/print than a patch to me. No obvious stitching or twill. |
mama04
Member Posts: 151
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 04-09-2012 02:25 PM
Check the alternate crew photo as well... |
Besixdouze
Member Posts: 235
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 04-09-2012 02:36 PM
Okay, I'll give you that one Maarten.  I'd still like a more conclusive image though. |
J.L
Member Posts: 674
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 04-09-2012 02:37 PM
Here is the pink version on Mattingly's hat when the crew arrived at KSC for launch. 
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Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-09-2012 02:39 PM
Many thanks gents for all your help. The evidence is now stacking up in favour of this 'pink' variant STS-4 patch being indeed the crew worn patch. But it is up to Chris to decide now if he would like to include it on his crewpatches website. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-09-2012 02:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
I also have a couple of patches with curved names. Does anyone know the history of that version?
The answer to that question is no, but I've look at them very closely and they are an exact match to the original souvenir versions manufactured by AB Emblem. But the names are on the curve of the patch rather than straight across the bottom. So I would say that the curved names version was also produced by AB Emblem. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-09-2012 03:03 PM
Yes, the curved version is clearly AB Emblem. Exactly the same size as the one with the pink insert (so smaller than the souvenir version), same dimple pattern on the back. Just wondered why it was produced in addition to the one with the straight names.By the way, I have made a quick collage of some STS-4 patches as seen on the Retro Space disc. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-09-2012 04:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
If I remember correctly, I once read that a 5" version was also produced especially for the crew by AB Emblem.
Could that of been the large Lion Brothers version of this patch? That has the 'pink' infill in the fold of vapour trail. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-09-2012 11:45 PM
I believe the 5 inch was mentioned in Kaplan and Muniz. Obviously a book about (and to boost sales of) AB Emblem patches, so I do not think they would mention a Lion Brothers patch. I realize a lot of mistakes are in that book and maybe I do not even remember correctly. |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 304
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 04-10-2012 07:27 AM
My original AB emblem from around 1981 which does not have the pink insert is around 4.9" wide and around 2.6" high.In 08/2004 I bought an STS-4 patch from AB again and this one measures around 5.6" wide and 3.1" high.
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hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-10-2012 07:35 AM
My mistake. I have found my Kaplan and Muniz. The passage is about a 5" crew patch for STS-3; about two souvenir versions for STS-4, one of them being 5 inch, fully embroidered and with an overlock border; the other one the same size of the official patch (no mention of a pink insert there) but on a twill background. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 388
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 04-10-2012 08:19 AM
I don't know if this helps with this discussion, but I have included a few pictures of a display of artifacts from Gene Kranz's personal collection. In it is a STS-4 patch example, with the light red/pink infill at the fold of the vapor trail. I would think that because he worked in mission control on STS-4, that he got this patch in the same time frame, lending to a early example? 
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Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-10-2012 10:17 AM
Chris has e-mailled me to-day, and yes, he is going to construct an STS-4 'crew' patch page on his crew patches website. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 04-11-2012 09:52 AM
Chris has been working hard all day today on constructing the new STS-4 'crew' patch page, (with a little help from me with the patch images and sizes). Chris hopes to post the finished page up online later on today for all to see.It has been hard to list all of the AB Emblem variants for this patch over the 30 year time span, but hopefully we have most of them. If anyone knows of any that have been missed, could they post an image or images here with any details and sizes. Many thanks goes out to all the members of this forum who contributed with the high-res images of the crew from the time of the mission, and for images of presentation pieces with the STS-4 'crew' patches included. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 04-11-2012 10:05 AM
I should maybe clarify that my aim is not to include all versions created over the last 30 years (one of the reasons I want to avoid covering Shuttle missions in general).Rather the idea is to highlight the 'crew patch' and provide details of the other versions from around the time of the mission so as to allow people to identify individual patches. A few later versions might be included where necessary to highlight similarities that might cause confusion. In any case I will finish the page this evening and upload it. Many thanks to Kevin for multiple scans from his vast collection, and of course to the other collectors involved in this group effort to identify and highlight interesting patches from the early Shuttle flights. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-20-2012 12:46 PM
I noticed the eBay sale yesterday of an STS4UNK1 patch at nearly $225. Now I don't know whether this high price was because the patch was mistaken for the crew version or because the UNK1 version is considered scarce and worth collecting.In any case since it looks so similar to the crew design I've slightly expanded the section on that patch on the STS-4 page of my CrewPatches site. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 09-20-2012 03:09 PM
Looks to be a very modern reproduction. I would not be surprised if this was made because of this thread. Note that it reads "Columbla" instead of "Columbia". |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-20-2012 03:46 PM
Thanks for pointing out the "i". I've added that trait to the description. |
dingpatch
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 08-05-2013 10:24 PM
The STS-4 patches with the curved names were handed out to the launch support crews at KSC prior to launch. My wife has a couple of them. The question would be; did AB make these as 'specials" to be given to the workers? |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 08-06-2013 01:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dingpatch:
The question would be; did AB make these as 'specials" to be given to the workers?
The answer is No. This patch was the first of the subtle design changes that were done. This patch with the curved names is more common that the original with straight names. |
garyd2831
Member Posts: 640
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009
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posted 01-08-2017 07:49 PM
It appears to that this STS-4 patch is a "crew patch." It came in a patch lot that I picked up on eBay (122281089910) a couple of weeks ago. It has the pink color triangle in the red trail behind the shuttle and it's not as big as the Lion Brothers patch. What does everyone think?  
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