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Author
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Topic: Dragon Models 1:72 Saturn V rocket model
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the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2012 11:16 PM
   
I was just looking at my Dragon 1/72 Saturn V before I sat down to review this website and was thinking the same exact thing Tracy. I like the 1/72 Saturn V but don't really love it. I will keep it but my Famemaster 4D Vision and Bandai Apollo 11 Saturn V models offer so much more to me. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-28-2012 01:31 AM
Naturally, my mind is already drifting into scratch build mode. That's a horrible thing.If I was good at making cones as the interstages, I'd be absolutely sunk. No, don't love it. I like it. But I get VERY picky - much more so than the average consumer that they're after, so I can only blame myself. Now, if Pascal would make us 1/72 F-1's and J-2's in resin, a bunch of us would be happy campers. |
apolloprojeckt
Member Posts: 1448
From: Arnhem, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-28-2012 03:30 AM
I have sent mail to Micheal Key as he maybe also has print program for a 1/72 full batch, he let print out in 3-D many scale F-1 engines from 1/48 to 1/12 and more space items such as shuttle platform and details and Apollo BPC 1/25.I think the Apollo BPC 1/25 fit also over the Code 3 Apollo capsule, I'm not sure but is that is so it will be a nice set! |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-28-2012 05:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
They just missed too many small, but obvious, items. The S-IVB thrust structure is making me nuts (along with the lack of the umbilical doors).
They missed some large but obvious items as well. Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy. At least the S-IVB thrust structure is hidden when assembled.I received the Apogee decal sheet but haven't had a chance to compare it to the kit's pre-painted markings. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-29-2012 12:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sev8n:
Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy.
I noticed this and completely agree. I would have preferred purchasing the Saturn V as separate stages for a premium price with outstanding detail as opposed to purchasing the complete model for about $220. Several years ago Dragon issued the CANDO products and the 1/400 scale Saturn V was available as three or four separate products that when purchased completed the entire model. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-29-2012 08:35 PM
The Apogee decal sheet: Comparisons:  Decal pics (outlined in red) superimposed on model pic:  |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-29-2012 11:31 PM
The problem is, we all get very excited when a new product comes out. Dragon's packaging hides a lot of obvious mistakes — and we only start comparing notes AFTER we've made our purchase.
The F-1 and the J-2 engines are completely off as is the SIVB thrust structure — which is currently driving me crazy. However, most of this is fixable to the modeler with a little bit of talent. However, for a $200 model, you should get what you pay for.
I'd be happy with the umbilicals added, too. I'm going to contact New Ware models in the Czech Republic to see if they can take their photo-etch brass umbilicals in 1/96 scale and upgrade them to 1/72 scale. They have the most detailed umbilicals out there in their Saturn V upgrade. I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.
But kudos to the Apollo 10 die-cast model. They did a great job on that. One or two minor problems, but a very nice modelI'm also curious as to why they came out with so many of the same model, just different missions. I was impressed that they got the markings right on the Apollo 7 model, but they included a docking probe, which Apollo 7 didn't have. I would still like to do the entire stack in 1/48. That would be so very impressive — especially on a LUT for a base. It would take up a ton of floor space. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2489
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 07-30-2012 05:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.
I have two of these models and with a little twist off came the BPC. I was replacing the top of one with an Apollo 10 and the other is now the Skylab launch vehicle so I was not concerned about trying to take them off. Underneath one BPC was just the plastic CM in silver only, but it had all the details. On the other it was a full up finished CM without the hand holds. In both cases the marks left on the CM where minimal so a person who is good with paint should have no issues with putting it right. As far as the detail goes, I think it is great for the price. Sure I wish they had done like Code 3 did years ago and get this forum's input prior to release, but at around $200 you have an impressive model of the only launch vehicle to send Mankind out of the earth's local gravity field. Besides, we are the only ones that will notice these issues. I had a fellow at the house last week, who is an aviator, ask me “so, how much of that rocket went to the moon?" It is safe to say that he never noticed the issues being pointed out here. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-31-2012 09:37 PM
I exchanged a few e-mails with Tomas at New Ware Models in the Czech Republic about the Dragon Saturn. He's probably going to wait until the kit version comes out, but he has plans on producing a "correction" kit for both the built and unbuilt versions. He did it for the Revell 1/96 Saturn - and did a great job... now he'll do the same for the 1/72 Dragon. His main concern is the engines. He feels that reproducing those correctly will be quite costly. I just begged him for some photo-etch of the umbilical doors. I don't think those will be a problem. But he's taking and making notes. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 08-02-2012 03:23 AM
Well, as one possible alternative, Apogee sells the vac engines for their 1/70 Saturn separately, so that might be an alternative to the Dragon ones (and the scales are close enough that the size difference won't really be an issue). But considering the engines on all the Saturn Vs that flew were covered with insulation blankets anyway, doing a few minor shape corrections to the turbopump areas and then covering the thing with foil (obscurring the small details) is likely all one needs to do anyway. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 08-02-2012 04:25 PM
Apogee also sells resin fins with the correct "faceted airfoil" shape. I plan on using these to replace the flat, slab-sided ones Dragon supplied. I have no association with Apogee, just relating my experience/options trying to improve accuracy of the Dragon model. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-03-2012 03:16 PM
I received my Dragon Saturn V in 1/72 a few days ago. This is a second run model and I see nothing that indicates that corrective measures were taken to address inaccuracies from the first run models. Just for fun I put both my 1/96 Revell I built in 1985 or so next to the 1/72 Dragon. Here is a picture for comparison. Just in case anyone is wondering how big it is in comparison. It certainly has better detail in the stock form and is an okay model. Then when you find out it is only $220 or so you have to say it is an exceptional kit. But you have to wonder how much more would it have cost to make accurate in some basic ways.  |
model maker
Member Posts: 130
From: NEVADA , USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 08-04-2012 02:07 PM
Nice! I see the older 1/96 has yellowed some. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1213
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 08-04-2012 04:48 PM
I am going to wait, first, I just don't have the room, and second, I would rather build 3 versions of a Saturn V in 1/144th scale instead of one big bird. I did just order the J-mission kit in 1/72 scale. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-06-2012 12:18 AM
New Ware Models out of the Czech Republic has already come out with a correction kit for the 1/72 CSM. Tomas makes great kits. You may want to take a peek here (at the bottom of the page) if you're interested in the corrections that are currently available. He plans to come out with some more once the kit version is available. |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-06-2012 04:27 PM
I guess I'm not the only one with a yellowed Saturn. Mine has turned yellow on the wrap-around stages.
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ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-06-2012 07:27 PM
I received my 1/72 Saturn V from Flying Mule today. I ordered it several weeks ago but had it on hold until I returned from vacation.As a scratch-builder, yes, there are many things I could do to improve the model. But on the other hand, it's a beautiful display piece in its own right. It looks great next to my Topping LM and CSM. Those period models remind me that even the "official" models were not totally accurate in many, many respects. If one wants to convey the feel of a BIG launch vehicle, this is a great display piece to WOW the visitors to your home, who won't care if the F-1's are thermally wrapped or not. FYI, two of the fairings had come off the S-II during shipping, but they were a quick fix with a couple of drops of Super Glue. Otherwise, the model was in great shape. I'm very happy to have it in my collection!  |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-08-2012 03:27 PM
Sometime in the early nineties I actually contacted Revell and requested replacement parts for my model which they sent out gratis. I got all of the intertank styrene wraps and an extra shroud for the LEM which I then bashed to make a shroud without the window. They also sent an entire LES, CSM and LEM. It was pretty cool of them to do. I can't believe it is still intact after all this time. It has been repaired about a dozen times but is mostly intact. My CSM on the Dragon model was missing a quad. I hate the J-2 engines and the second stage/first stage shroud should separate but does not. Again — it was only $200. Everyone say "thank you China!" |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 08-08-2012 03:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
I received my 1/72 Saturn V from Flying Mule today.
It is funny how we all have the same models. I have about 75% of the models in your collection and also own the same Ikea cabinet.We all love Apollo!  |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-09-2012 08:40 PM
This doesn't include the shelf full of unbuilt models out in my storage building!! |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 08-09-2012 08:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
This doesn't include the shelf full of unbuilt models out in my storage building!!
Does your collection of unbuilt models include: Tamiya CSM & LM, 3 Aoishima reissue kits, Revell 1/48 Lunar Landing, Dragon's Apollo 10 and Apollo 11 Lunar Approach kits, and most of the Dragon Apollo diecast models. Just kidding around here but I feel pretty confident that the collectSPACE members are major consumers of most of these products. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 08-09-2012 09:44 PM
I also have a rather jaundiced 1/96 Revell Saturn V, the original issue in the late 60s, as well as the original box. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-10-2012 01:16 AM
When I redid my Revell Saturn V and substituted ABS tubing for the styrene sheets, I was amazed at how yellow the styrene parts were. I'd suggest (if you're ever going to build it again - if you can get the kit), to give the styrene parts a couple of coats of white paint so the yellow won't show through. Though you can't do it with the flimsy wraps that they provide, using the ABS tubing is a great way to eliminate that problem. If you go to my website and take a look at what I did for the wraps, it's a great help. And, if I was going to do it over again, I'd probably make the first, interstage and second stage one piece just for convenience. However, between the New Ware upgrade kit and the appearance of another upgrade kit from seller north_american_engineering, it's very tempting to work from scratch again. If I had a spare 1/96 kit, I'd be very tempted - and I'm annoyed that I sold my extras at the moment. I never thought I'd have the desire to rework that model ever again. But between the New Ware and the NA Engineering parts, it's a very tempting kit bash. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-13-2012 02:49 PM
I just received (to my wife's dismay) a Dragon Apollo 11 lunar transit built-up model and the Apollo 10 model from Dragon with the idea of using the transparent LEM shroud on my existing Saturn V build up. I've seen that people have done this successfully. I'll let you know how it goes for me. The best thing is that I got both the Apollo 10 kit and the built Apollo 11 transit models for under $90 shipped at Hobby Warehouse. I used an online coupon called "best service" or something like that and got 10% off and free shipping. I could sell the Apollo 10 leftovers on eBay and cut the cost even more. Apollo 11 built up kit is really nice — amazing detail for something built on an assembly line that is so small. It really is pretty tiny. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-14-2012 01:27 AM
Basically, you got the Apollo 11 kit for free.My original idea was to kit bash the Apollo 10 die-cast model onto the 1/72 Apollo 11 stack. However, I like the Apollo 10 model so much and am a bit disappointed in the Apollo 11 entire stack, that I don't know if I'm willing to do it quite yet. I've had more compliments on the Apollo 10 model for its accuracy and more "Wow!" on the Saturn stack. A conundrum, for sure. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-14-2012 02:22 PM
If this helps you at all, the Apollo 11 "Lunar Approach" model does come with the brass laser cut S-band antenna for the service module. A nice detail I don't think the Apollo 10 model has. Isn't the Apollo 10 model made from the same tooling as the 11 - just painted differently? I just sprayed the clear Apollo 10 model LEM shroud and placed it all together. You will need to do some engineering so you can remove the shroud easily to get at the LEM. It is supposed to be glued so there aren't any friction tabs in place to hold it all together. Once you put the diecast CSM up on top, the model gets quite top heavy and you need to do something to give the thing a chance at surviving an accidental bump. If you don't have an awesome display case  like I've seen on this thread. The LES came off the CSM that came with the model quite easily. So I used that rather than the one that came with the Apollo 10 model. Saving me some time and making it easier to store for that sad eventual day when that part breaks. Watch the temperature of the white paint you get when painting the LEM shroud. I used Model Master Flat White and it is a bit yellow. You want a bright cool white. I put a semi gloss clear coat on it too as I suppose I will be handling this part somewhat throughout ownership. The LES stay nicely locked in place without glue so you can snap that off to show off the CM. I don't know how many times you will be able to that before it wears down and the fit loosens. I'd go with a small magnet in the cone after that. |
model maker
Member Posts: 130
From: NEVADA , USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 08-16-2012 10:21 PM
Hmm, now I think I know why Dragon went with a plastic CSM on the Saturn V, to keep it from being too top heavy. A note on using clear coat on white, it tends to really yellow over time, a better bet would be future sprayed on which will not yellow and is great for models that will be handled a lot. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-21-2012 10:42 AM
One last note, the Apollo 10 kit — not the built up one — comes with only a clear upper shroud for the LEM. The lower portion is molded in opaque gray plastic. This is unlike the pictures I see of the the Apollo 10 model built up which features an entirely clear shroud. So take that into consideration too if you are considering converting your Saturn V LEM shroud to the clear variant. Note in the included image that you cannot see the LEM legs as you can if you were using the Apollo 10 built up shroud.  |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 08-21-2012 11:16 AM
Nice job on the Apollo 10 kit! |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-21-2012 06:16 PM
Does that Apollo kit with the shroud and all, modify easily to fit the Saturn V? I guess you have to cut off the existing shroud an put it in it's place. I'm tempted to improve my Saturn V some more. |
robert_l
Member Posts: 168
From: Dundee,Scotland
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 08-22-2012 05:58 AM
For people in the UK who have not yet got the 1/72 Saturn V, Modelzone in Glasgow has it in stock. There is one built up in the window minus the engines! (They also have the Apollo 12 diorama with Surveyor 3.) |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-22-2012 01:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
Does that Apollo kit with the shroud and all, modify easily to fit the Saturn V?
Yes it modifies easily. There is a light amount of glue holding the LEM shroud in place on the Dragon 1/72 Saturn V and the shroud included in the Dragon Apollo 10 kit is from the same tooling so it replaces it exactly. The LES on the included with Dragon 1/72 Saturn V also comes off of the CM very easily. A little bit light force distributed around the edge of the LES until you hear the glue "cracking" and it comes right off so you can use that too without building up a new one. |
Jonjonzilla
Member Posts: 42
From: Hagerstown, MAryland
Registered: May 2007
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posted 08-22-2012 01:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by robert_l:
For people in the UK who have not yet got the 1/72 Saturn V, Modelzone in Glasgow has it in stock.
The Modelzone catalogue (which is available at the door) also gives 10% off the £223.50 cost of the rocket.I am tempted to pick it up but I really would prefer an unbuilt kit... |
model maker
Member Posts: 130
From: NEVADA , USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 09-10-2012 01:20 PM
Anyone have any new photos of their Dragon Saturn V? |
tetrox
Member Posts: 142
From: London England
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 09-25-2012 01:47 PM
I would be very grateful if anyone who has the model could let me know whether the conical interstage between the second and third stages comes away from the top (or could be prised apart if glued) of the second stage or is it moulded on. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 09-25-2012 04:06 PM
The conical interstage is glued. I am not sure if I would attempt to pry it off though. |
CaptSpry
Member Posts: 33
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-25-2012 05:37 PM
There is an obvious seem line, with a little love and care and being very careful, you should be able to separate it. |
tetrox
Member Posts: 142
From: London England
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 09-26-2012 12:09 AM
Thank you for the replies letting me know. I have one on order and am thinking of different ways to display and touch up paint work if necessary. |
tetrox
Member Posts: 142
From: London England
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 10-06-2012 06:40 PM
I received my Saturn V yesterday and am really disappointed with the model.I have followed this thread and whilst accept that it is big with a wow factor and looks like a Saturn V from 5 feet away, nearly everything below the SLA adaptor is just so inaccurate. From skinny F-1 engines, with short misshapen engine shrouds, unrealistic ullage rockets and feedline covers through to wrongly scaled skirts on the second stage and maybe they forgot their glasses when designing their third stage. I am in no way a rivet counter but cannot believe it would have cost any more to produce the parts they did correctly and have the thing checked out prior to release. Sorry about the rant but I really do not believe that many products in the mass produced space model related market show the same degree of accuracy that would be expected in other genres and are regarded more as toys. On the upside I like the box and the SLA, CSM, LES combo is really nicely detailed but gluing or wet painting the boost cover to a perfectly good Command Module... |
golddog
Member Posts: 210
From: australia
Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 10-07-2012 03:06 AM
I finally managed to get mine in Australia today. Cost was $298 AUS. Personally think it is very well done but I'm not an expert on the detail. It matches well my 1/96 and 1/144 models |
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