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Author
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Topic: Dragon Models 1:72 Saturn V rocket model
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divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-19-2012 12:05 AM
   
After reading everyone's posts, I've broken down and ordered the Saturn V and the Apollo 10 models from Dragon. I think, in the long run, I won't regret buying either...and I will do my best not to kit bash other than adding the LM portion to the Saturn V. If you're going to do something, do it right. I'm sure I'm going to go crazy over figuring out how to correct the fin and F1 engine colors. If I can stay away from the umbilical attachments, it will be a big plus on my end.But thank you to all of you for your input. It has all been invaluable. |
model maker
Member Posts: 130
From: NEVADA , USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 07-19-2012 12:16 PM
For the fins, someone here used the matte clear masking tape around the fin letter, spray painted silver, removed the tape and had a correct silver fins. I am doing the same. |
cycleroadie
Member Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted 07-19-2012 01:12 PM
I just used clear scotch tape, trimmed it close with my exacto knife, and the carefully pulled the tape after, did the trick and you could see to get it cut close. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2501
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 07-19-2012 01:17 PM
I suff sanded the fins, painted them and then created a decal to put the letters back. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-19-2012 09:52 PM
Depending on how everything looks, I'll probably do the fins in Bare Metal Foil. The F-1's are another story. Are they removable?Supposedly, mine was shipped today. Should be interesting. |
cycleroadie
Member Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted 07-20-2012 06:38 AM
The F-1s and the fins are actually separate parts that you have to assemble to the stage anyway, so easy for you to work on. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-21-2012 05:19 PM
I received mine earlier this week, and frankly I'm a bit disappointed in the fidelity and finish of the model. With the poor seams and numerous sink marks I've seen so far, I will probably fix these issues and repaint the entire model. I have ordered the decal sheet for the Apogee 1/70 Saturn V to see if they can be used on the Dragon model. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-21-2012 09:58 PM
I was prepared for some level of disappointment when I received my model because I did a lot of research before I ordered it. Hey, for a few hundred dollars and the giant scale that Dragon provides can we really be all that surprised or disappointed. I like the model but really do not love it. I will keep it though. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-21-2012 10:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
I'll probably do the fins in Bare Metal Foil.
I have come to love Bare Metal Foil. The Flat Aluminum Bare Metal Foil will probably work out perfect for this job. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-26-2012 11:15 PM
My 1/72 Apollo 10 and 1/72 Saturn V arrived today. I opened up the Apollo 10 box. VERY impressive display piece. A lot of work went into this on Dragon's part for a very niche market. I'll open up the Saturn tomorrow and see how it looks.But, yes, Bare Metal Foil is the answer to many problems. Great product. Also, gold candy wrappers are a great substitute for Kapton if need be. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-26-2012 11:53 PM
I have found that gold origami paper works for Kapton as well. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-27-2012 12:50 AM
Bare Metal Foil works very well in a lot of circumstances. I have to do a resin 1/144 CSM. I will spray the entire model in flat white primer - two or three coats worth. Then wrap the SM in aluminum Bare Metal Foil. Using a SHARP hobby knife, but out the radiators. You have a perfect CSM with a boost protect cover [in my case] and perfect white radiators. The rest of the SM looks like it's metal. A wonderful product for those that want a metal, not metal paint, look. It should work wonders on the Saturn V fins. I'll just have to have a look at the F1 engines. I might have to go after Metalizer paint if they're not the right color, otherwise, it will make me nuts. I'm surprised Dragon, with all of the work that they put into this, missed these two very simple corrections - and it's just color, not the shape of the part. |
apolloprojeckt
Member Posts: 1452
From: Arnhem, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-27-2012 12:59 AM
The paint color Gunmetal is a very good, mixing with iron color and you get this:  |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2012 04:16 AM
Pascal, Is that F1 engine from the Dragon 1/72 Saturn V?Great job modifying it! |
apolloprojeckt
Member Posts: 1452
From: Arnhem, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-27-2012 07:22 AM
No, this is the smaller version 1/96. I'm busy with 1/72, I find the turbopump exhaust manifold too small on the 1/72. |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 07-27-2012 11:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by apolloprojeckt:
I find the turbopump exhaust manifold too small on the 1/72.
Pascal - I assume you will be running hydrazine and LOX through the turbopumps - is that why you need them sized properly? |
apolloprojeckt
Member Posts: 1452
From: Arnhem, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-27-2012 12:14 PM
Yes, so as you see the photo of the other scale that details will come on my model. I have experienced in the past some people don't see this extra made details not at all. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-27-2012 10:00 PM
I hate to admit it, I'm a bit disappointed with the big Saturn for all of the reasons listed.Pascal - very nice color for the F-1's as well as the added detail. You need to do the same for the J-2's on the 1/72 version. They just missed too many small, but obvious, items. The S-IVB thrust structure is making me nuts (along with the lack of the umbilical doors). It's obvious that they designed this to make into a kit. They put a lot more work into the Apollo 10 die-cast version. But I've blown the same amount of cash on worse things. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2012 11:16 PM
I was just looking at my Dragon 1/72 Saturn V and was thinking the same exact thing Tracy. I like the 1/72 Saturn V but don't really love it. I will keep it but my Famemaster 4D Vision and Bandai Apollo 11 Saturn V models offer so much more to me. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-28-2012 01:31 AM
Naturally, my mind is already drifting into scratch build mode. That's a horrible thing.If I was good at making cones as the interstages, I'd be absolutely sunk. No, don't love it. I like it. But I get VERY picky - much more so than the average consumer that they're after, so I can only blame myself. Now, if Pascal would make us 1/72 F-1's and J-2's in resin, a bunch of us would be happy campers. |
apolloprojeckt
Member Posts: 1452
From: Arnhem, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-28-2012 03:30 AM
I have sent mail to Micheal Key as he maybe also has print program for a 1/72 full batch, he let print out in 3-D many scale F-1 engines from 1/48 to 1/12 and more space items such as shuttle platform and details and Apollo BPC 1/25.I think the Apollo BPC 1/25 fit also over the Code 3 Apollo capsule, I'm not sure but is that is so it will be a nice set! |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 07-28-2012 05:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
They just missed too many small, but obvious, items. The S-IVB thrust structure is making me nuts (along with the lack of the umbilical doors).
They missed some large but obvious items as well. Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy. At least the S-IVB thrust structure is hidden when assembled.I received the Apogee decal sheet but haven't had a chance to compare it to the kit's pre-painted markings. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-29-2012 12:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sev8n:
Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy.
I noticed this and completely agree. I would have preferred purchasing the Saturn V as separate stages for a premium price with outstanding detail as opposed to purchasing the complete model for about $220. Several years ago Dragon issued the CANDO products and the 1/400 scale Saturn V was available as three or four separate products that when purchased completed the entire model. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-29-2012 11:31 PM
The problem is, we all get very excited when a new product comes out. Dragon's packaging hides a lot of obvious mistakes — and we only start comparing notes after we've made our purchase.
The F-1 and the J-2 engines are completely off as is the SIVB thrust structure — which is currently driving me crazy. However, most of this is fixable to the modeler with a little bit of talent. However, for a $200 model, you should get what you pay for.
I'd be happy with the umbilicals added, too. I'm going to contact New Ware models in the Czech Republic to see if they can take their photo-etch brass umbilicals in 1/96 scale and upgrade them to 1/72 scale. They have the most detailed umbilicals out there in their Saturn V upgrade. I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.
But kudos to the Apollo 10 die-cast model. They did a great job on that. One or two minor problems, but a very nice modelI'm also curious as to why they came out with so many of the same model, just different missions. I was impressed that they got the markings right on the Apollo 7 model, but they included a docking probe, which Apollo 7 didn't have. I would still like to do the entire stack in 1/48. That would be so very impressive — especially on a LUT for a base. It would take up a ton of floor space. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2501
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 07-30-2012 05:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.
I have two of these models and with a little twist off came the BPC. I was replacing the top of one with an Apollo 10 and the other is now the Skylab launch vehicle so I was not concerned about trying to take them off. Underneath one BPC was just the plastic CM in silver only, but it had all the details. On the other it was a full up finished CM without the hand holds. In both cases the marks left on the CM where minimal so a person who is good with paint should have no issues with putting it right. As far as the detail goes, I think it is great for the price. Sure I wish they had done like Code 3 did years ago and get this forum's input prior to release, but at around $200 you have an impressive model of the only launch vehicle to send Mankind out of the earth's local gravity field. Besides, we are the only ones that will notice these issues. I had a fellow at the house last week, who is an aviator, ask me “so, how much of that rocket went to the moon?" It is safe to say that he never noticed the issues being pointed out here. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-31-2012 09:37 PM
I exchanged a few e-mails with Tomas at New Ware Models in the Czech Republic about the Dragon Saturn. He's probably going to wait until the kit version comes out, but he has plans on producing a "correction" kit for both the built and unbuilt versions. He did it for the Revell 1/96 Saturn - and did a great job... now he'll do the same for the 1/72 Dragon. His main concern is the engines. He feels that reproducing those correctly will be quite costly. I just begged him for some photo-etch of the umbilical doors. I don't think those will be a problem. But he's taking and making notes. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 08-02-2012 03:23 AM
Well, as one possible alternative, Apogee sells the vac engines for their 1/70 Saturn separately, so that might be an alternative to the Dragon ones (and the scales are close enough that the size difference won't really be an issue). But considering the engines on all the Saturn Vs that flew were covered with insulation blankets anyway, doing a few minor shape corrections to the turbopump areas and then covering the thing with foil (obscurring the small details) is likely all one needs to do anyway. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 08-02-2012 04:25 PM
Apogee also sells resin fins with the correct "faceted airfoil" shape. I plan on using these to replace the flat, slab-sided ones Dragon supplied. I have no association with Apogee, just relating my experience/options trying to improve accuracy of the Dragon model. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-03-2012 03:16 PM
I received my Dragon Saturn V in 1/72 a few days ago. This is a second run model and I see nothing that indicates that corrective measures were taken to address inaccuracies from the first run models. Just for fun I put both my 1/96 Revell I built in 1985 or so next to the 1/72 Dragon. Here is a picture for comparison. Just in case anyone is wondering how big it is in comparison. It certainly has better detail in the stock form and is an okay model. Then when you find out it is only $220 or so you have to say it is an exceptional kit. But you have to wonder how much more would it have cost to make accurate in some basic ways.  |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-06-2012 07:27 PM
I received my 1/72 Saturn V from Flying Mule today. I ordered it several weeks ago but had it on hold until I returned from vacation.As a scratch-builder, yes, there are many things I could do to improve the model. But on the other hand, it's a beautiful display piece in its own right. It looks great next to my Topping LM and CSM. Those period models remind me that even the "official" models were not totally accurate in many, many respects. If one wants to convey the feel of a BIG launch vehicle, this is a great display piece to WOW the visitors to your home, who won't care if the F-1's are thermally wrapped or not. FYI, two of the fairings had come off the S-II during shipping, but they were a quick fix with a couple of drops of Super Glue. Otherwise, the model was in great shape. I'm very happy to have it in my collection! |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-08-2012 03:27 PM
My CSM on the Dragon model was missing a quad. I hate the J-2 engines and the second stage/first stage shroud should separate but does not. Again — it was only $200. |
divemaster
Member Posts: 1376
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-14-2012 01:27 AM
My original idea was to kit bash the Apollo 10 die-cast model onto the 1/72 Apollo 11 stack. However, I like the Apollo 10 model so much and am a bit disappointed in the Apollo 11 entire stack, that I don't know if I'm willing to do it quite yet. I've had more compliments on the Apollo 10 model for its accuracy and more "Wow!" on the Saturn stack. A conundrum, for sure. |
08-14-2012
unregistered
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posted 02:22 PM--20-100 bicyclezero@yahoo.com
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model maker
Member Posts: 130
From: NEVADA , USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 08-16-2012 10:21 PM
Hmm, now I think I know why Dragon went with a plastic CSM on the Saturn V, to keep it from being too top heavy. A note on using clear coat on white, it tends to really yellow over time, a better bet would be future sprayed on which will not yellow and is great for models that will be handled a lot. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-21-2012 10:42 AM
One last note, the Apollo 10 kit — not the built up one — comes with only a clear upper shroud for the LEM. The lower portion is molded in opaque gray plastic. This is unlike the pictures I see of the the Apollo 10 model built up which features an entirely clear shroud. So take that into consideration too if you are considering converting your Saturn V LEM shroud to the clear variant. Note in the included image that you cannot see the LEM legs as you can if you were using the Apollo 10 built up shroud.  |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 08-21-2012 11:16 AM
Nice job on the Apollo 10 kit! |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-21-2012 06:16 PM
Does that Apollo kit with the shroud and all, modify easily to fit the Saturn V? I guess you have to cut off the existing shroud an put it in it's place. I'm tempted to improve my Saturn V some more. |
bicyclezero
New Member Posts: 7
From: Cambridge, MA - USA
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted 08-22-2012 01:27 PM
Yes it modifies easily. There is a light amount of glue holding the LEM shroud in place on the Dragon 1/72 Saturn V and the shroud included in the Dragon Apollo 10 kit is from the same tooling so it replaces it exactly. The LES on the included with Dragon 1/72 Saturn V also comes off of the CM very easily. A little bit light force distributed around the edge of the LES until you hear the glue "cracking" and it comes right off so you can use that too without building up a new one. |
tetrox
Member Posts: 142
From: London England
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 09-25-2012 01:47 PM
I would be very grateful if anyone who has the model could let me know whether the conical interstage between the second and third stages comes away from the top (or could be prised apart if glued) of the second stage or is it moulded on. |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 09-25-2012 04:06 PM
The conical interstage is glued. I am not sure if I would attempt to pry it off though. |
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