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Author
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Topic: Space Food: Gemini, Apollo, or both?
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David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-16-2015 04:44 PM
   
Posting for a friend who was given these food packets and meal bags back in 1971. I have some other pictures but to start with we just need to narrow down Gemini or Apollo for the group. Any space food experts out there that can identify the program(s) for these food packs? Thanks!  
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space1
Member Posts: 853
From: Danville, Ohio
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 11-16-2015 05:15 PM
The best way I know for food packets with instructions to add water, is to see if cold or hot water is mentioned. Gemini did not have hot water, so I would expect a Gemini packet to just say add water. An Apollo food packet would say to add hot water or cold water.For the smaller packets I don't know how to tell. And both Gemini and Apollo had the cleansing towels. The blue Velcro makes me lean toward Apollo, but I don't know if Gemini food packets also used blue Velcro. I hope that is some help. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-16-2015 07:29 PM
Very helpful as always, John. Appreciate it.Grapefruit mentions cold water, Pea Soup does not (nor does it mention hot) so perhaps some good clues there. "Day 10" bagging is interesting. Given gifting date I think this label would apply only to Gemini 7 and Apollos 7,9,12,15. Or maybe they routinely 'overstocked' food by some number of days in the plan? |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4167
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 11-17-2015 03:46 AM
The soup package looks identical to an Apollo 11 food presentation in my collection. While the package types were used on both Gemini and Apollo the coloured velcro and the typeface/font used on some of the labels would likely date them to Apollo in my opinion. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-17-2015 04:11 AM
Some information that may help, NASA would only send out food packets that were ''expired'', thus beyond the date which they can be consumed. How far gone they are is a different matter. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-18-2015 03:06 PM
Thanks for the additional inputs. I found a nice paper that shows some Gemini and Apollo foods on pages 10 and 13 respectively. The one thing that stands out to me is the use of an internal sanitizing tablet on the Apollo food packs. The tablets are are externally-packaged for Gemini, the Grapefruit/Pea Soup packets posted above, and possibly A7 per below. Rick; if I found the correct item on your blog, it would appear the tablet is internal to your food pack, consistent with what the Natick Laboratory paper would indicate for Apollo. Same true for an A13 Cocoa of mine. If I'm reading it correctly, pages 15-18 of this NASA document suggests the internal sterilizing tablet packaging change came along after post-Apollo 1 re-evaluations and after the Apollo 7 mission (i.e. started with A8). Richard; don't know if these were sourced through public or private NASA channels so can't speak to the 'expiry factor', though certainly no good now! There is a loose provenance tie to Dr Malcolm C. Smith, a key figure in the NASA food program and an author of the linked papers. I do note that your Gemini food in the adjacent thread has the external tablets as well. Perhaps somewhat counter to John's thoughts, two of your examples indicate cold water on the instruction labels despite what seems to be a known-Gemini affiliation. Hmmm. To illustrate, Apollo enclosed tablet shown at right versus the external tablet of Gemini-A7, and the unknown Pea Soup on the left. I've found nothing concrete on distinguishing Gemini and Apollo cubed food items.  |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-18-2015 04:35 PM
I am actually in the middle of writing up my research into the issue thus far, but i believe your food packets to be Apollo. I think I can quite safely say that they are not Gemini - I will explain more once I've done a full write up.I'm just waiting on word from an astronaut and another contact of mine! |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-21-2015 01:39 PM
David, we have spoken via email but I think in the interests of conclusion I should post my findings on your friend's food here.The Grapefruit Drink is from Apollo 7. The reason for this conclusion is because of the reference to Cold Water, as well as the fact that the tablet is external. The Pea Soup, Chicken Bites and Fruitcake I believe to be Gemini. The Pea Soup does not reference water temperature and has an external tablet. The reason I believe that the Chicken Bites and Fruitcake are for the same mission are because their four digit stamp codes are identical/close together; 6230/6230/6231. The Towel and Chewing Gum have no distinguishable marks so I can't tell either way. I was hoping to be able to tell from the Velcro, but as all of the food packets have blue velcro, it is impossible to say. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-21-2015 02:06 PM
To re-iterate what I mentioned in the other thread - when you say an item is from say Apollo 7, what you're saying was that the item was prepared at around the time of that mission, not that it was flown on that mission.You should assume items are unflown unless there is concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-21-2015 02:19 PM
Correct. Currently there is no known method of identifying food flown on each mission other than the word of an astronaut. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-22-2015 10:33 AM
Very helpful inputs, all. Thank you.I'm glad John's 'temp test' stands, given that your (Richard's) food turned out to be an apparent mix of Apollo and Gemini as well. And agreed, flown status unknown on any of these but a nice narrowing-down in time and sorting. I now know the overwrap bags shown above are Gemini and Apollo as well. Per the documents above the meal overwrap was a polyolefin-aluminum
foil-polyester film for Gemini. Subsequent Apollo-era flammability reductions were achieved "by replacing the aluminum foil/plastic-laminated film [overwraps] with a nonflammable material" and "replacement of the adhesive-backed aluminum foil meal-overwrap label with gray tape approved for spacecraft use." So, for full-meal overwraps: - Foil bag + Foil label = Gemini
- Clear bag + GrayTape label = Apollo (through A17)
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Larry McGlynn
Member Posts: 1255
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 11-22-2015 11:11 AM
David, they went back to Aluminum foil packing for Skylab food. I have a package of Tuna Creole that I got from Ed Gibson. They seemed to have switched to Dennison type paper labels during Skylab (78%N2/28%O2 5 psi ATA) probably due to the non-flammable nature of Skylab's atmosphere. They have stayed with that type of label into STS and ISS. The foil pack is a wet pack with a blue Velcro dot on it. The label has a typed font with the following information on it. TUNA CREOLE
4098 S/N MTP307 Thanks for the tip on the two papers. They proved a lot info on food processing. I plan to meet with the Natick Lab people early next year. I found an employee in the NASA lab that I hope to get some history on the meals. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-22-2015 12:41 PM
Good additions Larry, thanks. And I've clarified above that the foil/clear distinction only applies to Gemini-Apollo 17 meal overwrap bags vs. any individual food items.I'm suddenly hungry for Cajun.  And another food reference that might be helpful; last couple pages clipped by Google Books but mostly there. Lastly, agreed with Richard below on whether flights were overstocked. This article explicitly mentions provision of extra days' rations beyond nominal plan. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-22-2015 12:45 PM
Some great information here, and thanks Larry, I appreciate your information in helping me on my thread!Just a quick note to David, I can confirm that each mission did in fact have ''Contingency Food''. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-22-2015 02:19 PM
While the references cited seemed very clear about the overwrap/labeling changes from Gemini to Apollo, I'm now puzzled by several NASM items that seem to conflict:An Apollo 10 Day 10 Meal B pack is shown with the clear overwrap and gray tape label. John; I also note you have a foil-wrapped meal pack on your Apollo Food page. |
Larry McGlynn
Member Posts: 1255
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 11-22-2015 05:23 PM
David, according to the Natick Labs thesis, Gemini was foil wrapped and looked just like the NASM Apollo 11 meals. The Apollo space foods were loaded in clear poly heat sealed wrap. It was flexible and weight saving. Now the Velcro is red which would mean it was Buzz Aldrin's. If the NASM has the Apollo 11 Flight Plan Supplement from the FDF, then they could track what Buzz ate during the mission. NASA changed the menus in Apollo to have half prepackaged complete meals and the other was pick what you liked pantry style menu. So complete meals could have been left over at the end of a mission. Most of this clear poly was designed at the Polymer Film Center at Natick. Their extrusion systems heat plastic pellets and pushes out layers of polymer packaging. Look at MRE and FSRs. I am attempting to figure out how this technology got to the general contractor in this case Whirlpool and Malpar. We eat a lot of this technology. Nothing like Cheetos for a snack. An extruded baked nugget pushed out of the extrusion tube into a low pressure chamber to puff up the tasty little treat. |
Larry McGlynn
Member Posts: 1255
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 11-22-2015 07:05 PM
Richard, you asked about the utensils like spoons. The utensils were made by Oneida, Ltd out of Oneida, NY. They make the Community flatware used by NASA. The pattern used is actually named the "Paul Revere" pattern. It is an Off The Shelf flatware. |
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