posted August 11, 2005 04:32 PM               

quote:

---

Testimony began Wednesday in the trial of a former National Museum of Naval Aviation employee accused of stealing artifacts from the museum and selling them on eBay.

Sherrie Shaw of Pace was charged with dealing in stolen property, forgery and theft after a U.S. Navy "Black Widow" Cross and its citation, a Purple Heart and its citation and a Mercury astronaut space boot were advertised for sale on the popular Internet auction site in late 2002 and early 2003.

---

posted August 11, 2005 07:02 PM              

------------------
Scott Schneeweis

posted August 12, 2005 04:05 AM               

Following the Max Ary allegations I decided that in the future I would request some background info on any items I bought through the reputable space auction houses.

So far my repeated attempts to elicit any info beyond that given in the auction catalogue have yielded nothing. Not even a refusal, the matter has just quietly died.

The anonymity of sellers and the unwillingness of the auction houses to furnish further information has two major adverse results. First it leaves us, the collectors, wide open to buying stolen goods. Second (and possibly more importantly) it kills all the item's historical provenance.

It's a thorny issue for auction houses; they might be naturally reluctant to put a collector in touch with a seller who has more items in their attic in case they decide to deal directly. However, passing an email of queries to the seller and then returning the answers seems to me a fairly safe way of preserving the history of these items, while simultaneously providing some details about the chain of ownership.

Cheers,
Matt

posted August 12, 2005 05:28 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt T:
A worrying trend, and one that almost no-one (myself included) is taking seriously. At least, not seriously enough to stop buying stuff with no background.

Following the Max Ary allegations I decided that in the future I would request some background info on any items I bought through the reputable space auction houses.
(...)
The anonymity of sellers and the unwillingness of the auction houses to furnish further information has two major adverse results. First it leaves us, the collectors, wide open to buying stolen goods. Second (and possibly more importantly) it kills all the item's historical provenance.
(...) However, passing an email of queries to the seller and then returning the answers seems to me a fairly safe way of preserving the history of these items, while simultaneously providing some details about the chain of ownership.

---

That's why I was so glad to buy the Apollo Window Cover from you on eBay, Matt ! You gave me all needed details and valuable infos, including past owner, his own source etc. I was able to track the piece from its origin. Something that would have been impossible from any auction house.
I will never buy an item without full infos on origin and previous owner.

posted August 12, 2005 12:11 PM               

Most of the serious collectors have always taken provenance seriously, especially to maintain the chain of custody of important pieces. Don't forget, there were many artifacts that were given, taken, thrown out & recovered and auctioned off by NASA or it's contractors that never came with proof as to it's origin.

Obviously nobody wants to buy stolen artifacts, but is a piece taken home by a NASA worker in the 70's considered "stolen" or a collectible to remind him/her of the program they worked on? From where I sit, thank God these guys took stuff home, because it's the only way most of the important artifacts make it onto the market for private collectors to buy.

There are auction houses selling items as "flown" when they aren't, because they get to add another couple of zeros onto the price. The problem is many of these items can't be proven one way or the other, so greed steps in and all of a sudden the artifacts becomes a flown piece. NASA or it's contractors didn't keep great records as to every piece of hardware on M-G-A that flew, so it lends itself to fraud by dishonest people. I'm not talking about "Stowage List" items, I'm refering to actual pieces of hardware used in the spacecraft.

I've bought many artifacts from people who worked on the programs that I know for a fact are flown, but I can't say they are because the worker didn't leave anything to prove it's history. There are other pieces where the worker left notes saying exactly what mission the artifact was flown on. I live a short drive from Downey where many NAA workers live and I can tell you, EVERYONE took stuff home.

Is it stolen or is it a piece of memorabilla? These things were taken home after the item was thrown out, the project was cancelled or the item was never going to be used again, so is it considered stolen? Unfortunately many of the workers didn't document these items or even leave notes, but they are 100% authentic. Don't forget, after Apollo was cancelled, these artifacts weren't worth anything, other than to the guys who worked on the project.

All of a sudden in the last 5 years, the prices go crazy for anything flown and for hardware. Like any collectible field, when the market is hot, people do stupid things (like stealing from a museum) or dishonest things (like saying something's flown) because there's big money involved.

The problem we're all having to worry about are criminals who are stealing important artifacts from museum collections that are easily tracked, then selling them through auction houses. If you demand the auction house offer provenance on every piece of hardware, close the doors because that will never happen. It's too much work for them to research every piece, they don't have the resources and they consider themselves nothing more than brokers of artifacts brought to them.

The auction houses will never refer clients to each other, it's the only way to maintain privacy and to keep control of the sale of other artifacts. If I had a customer with dozens of rare pieces, I sure wouldn't let anyone know who they were, because I'd be taking money out of my pocket. Expecting the auction houses to tell you who their clients are is not realistic.

I think most of the auction houses use due diligence when offering artifacts and they try to maintain the history of a piece, but it can't always be done. Unfortunately it's a buyer beware situation, but to not buy anything that doesn't come with provenance, is cutting yourself out of some wonderful things that pop up all the time that are legitimate.

posted August 13, 2005 03:59 AM               

quote:

---

Sherrie Shaw took the stand in her own defense on the third day of testimony in her trial on organized dealing in stolen property charges. The six-member jury is expected to begin deliberations Monday.

...

The astronaut space boot, Shaw said, was in poor condition and had been discarded from the museum. Museum deputy director Robert Macon was about to throw the boot into a trash can when Shaw asked if she could have it, she said.

Macon testified that he would never throw the boot away nor give Shaw permission to take it.

"I would see no reason why I would give a historic Naval relic to a person just because they asked for it," Macon said. "It violates every rule known to mankind."

---

posted August 15, 2005 10:13 AM            

Words cannot describe how angry, how upset I am at reading your words. I am a very good friend of the Shaw family and ran a search on google for news of Mrs. Shaw's trial...and found this.

You don't know her, so how DARE you make accusations like that. She's not stupid, selfish, nor should she be hanged or whatever spacepsycho implied.

She's a good woman, a lady I consider to be like my second mother of sorts. She is caring, smart, funny, loving, and just a great person to be around. She raised two of the most wonderful, smartest kids, two people I consider my best friends. YOU guys don't know what happen.

posted August 15, 2005 10:32 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by resident86:
Their mother may be taken away from them for something stupid like this!

---

I have heard directly from one of Ms. Shaw's co-workers, someone who testified against her in court, and who paints a different picture of the situation than you do. So at best, the truth is some where in between. Before we start debating who is right, let's see what the jury has to say this week...

posted August 15, 2005 11:01 AM            

I've just been so upset lately. I don't consider museum collections to be "pretty objects to look at." (I love the aviation museum!) I am a lover of history, and I'm studying to become a history teacher at university. If she took the items, I don't think she thought of it as stealing if that makes any sense at all. She loves the Navy. I think everything has just been blown out of proportion somehow. I mean, she could spend up to forty years in jail! If she did in fact steal the items (hard for me to believe) then she should have to do something to make up for it, and not spend the rest of her life behind bars.

Maybe the items did get mixed in with her collection. For example, I once checked out a few books from my local library and turned most of them back in instead of two. I have a large amount of books. A few weeks ago, I had to clean my house because of the hurricane and I found the two books right there in my collection! I thought they were part of my collection. (I have bought many books from library sales therefore they still have call number stickers on the spine.) Does that make sense?

Whether I am wrong or right, I still think some people should apologize for their comments, honestly. Sorry to be a bother, but I've already spent a lot of hours and days crying and thinking about the trial and then I read this board and I cried more.

posted August 15, 2005 12:45 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by resident86:
Maybe the items did get mixed in with her collection. For example, I once checked out a few books from my local library and turned most of them back in instead of two. I have a large amount of books. A few weeks ago, I had to clean my house because of the hurricane and I found the two books right there in my collection! I thought they were part of my collection. (I have bought many books from library sales therefore they still have call number stickers on the spine.) Does that make sense?

---

The difference is that you still didn't sell them on ebay. Furthermore, even though those books were relatively worthless, you still realized that with your large collection, they were still not your property. In this case, we are dealing with an extremely rare Mercury spacesuit boot worth thousands of dollars. I find it hard to believe that she has over 30 such spacesuit boots lying around and it just got mixed up in her collection.

I do believe your statement that she loves the Navy, but she still may love her lifestyle slightly more.

posted August 15, 2005 02:04 PM               

Your loyalty to the lady in question is to be applauded and I understand your wish to defend a family friend.

I understand she collects items herself and it is this point that I persoanlly find difficult to understand. I can recall how and when I acquired every artifact in my collection. I am sure the same can be said for every collector on this site or indeed any collector of any subject of note. I am quite sure the lady in question is no different.

How she can then "mix things up" with her own stuff, particularly items of significant historical note, beggars belief. A Mercury space suit boot for example....... not the sort of thing any collector would overlook surely?

Regards,

posted August 15, 2005 05:13 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by wickball:
resident86, if Shaw is found guilty, YOU owe a few apologies to the readers of this forum.
wick

---

I don't think so. This is just a good example of how there are 2 sides to every story and people are hurt on both sides of the issue. She was just airing her concerns. I don't believe she was malicious.

posted August 15, 2005 07:20 PM            

spacepsycho said: hang the woman from the pad 39 gantry.

zee_aladdin said: she seems to be a woman who is interested only in money and her selfish conceit

LT Scott said: she should go to jail for sheer stupidity

Those three comments are why I posted. I shouldn't have to apologize because I was defending a woman that I personally know and to my knowledge, those three persons did not know. I welcomed all further comments made to me. This discussion has given me a lot to think about.

posted August 15, 2005 07:29 PM               

quote:

---

A former employee was convicted Monday of stealing medals, citations and a Mercury astronaut's boot from the National Museum of Naval Aviation and selling them on the Internet.

A six-member jury took two hours to find Sherrie Shaw, 43, guilty of theft, forgery and dealing in stolen property.

Circuit Judge Linda Nobles said sentencing would be set after Sept. 14. Shaw could face a penalty ranging from probation to 20 years in prison, the Pensacola News Journal reported.

---

posted August 16, 2005 11:20 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kandi:
Sherrie Shaw is my Aunt. I can't believe the things I am reading! Sherrie is the last person in the world that would steal from anyone. She is a wounderful women with a great family who stands behind her. Sherrie is not guilty!

---

posted August 18, 2005 11:24 AM               

If you like a document or award make a photocopy or lasercopy of it. Take lots of pictures with your own camera. But never ever let any piece leave the premises.

If anything is discarded get the paperwork to prove it and keep it with that item, and backup copies of that paperwork in a safe for the rest of that items life (or yours).

How collections could get mixed together is truly beyond me. It is a poor example of not only conservatorship, but collecting as well.
I have a sympathetic heart and really did not want to believe what I was seeing here.
But, IMHO I'm not surprised the jury saw the case as they did. Whatever the intents were in certainty can only be known by Ms. Shaw. Serious errors in judgement were made in even the most sympathetic outlook. I hope whatever sentence befalls her in mid-September it gives her a chance to reflect on what has occured here, and perhaps one day she will be the better for it.
The early comments were in bad form esp. the pad bit as in the US we stand against "cruel and unusual punishment". A person's life is not a joking matter. The "stupidity" bit is also uncalled for. People make bad mistakes, but that does not make them stupid.

I'm not trying to defend the actions, but we should be humane. Isn't that what our very heroes and heroines that our the subjects of our collections represent ? Yes, they like us will feel angry or saddened by these stories, but lets not bring ourselves down over it.

posted December 21, 2005 03:48 PM            

From WEAR-TV

posted December 22, 2005 06:51 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard:
What was the final sentencing?

---

quote:

---

Family members wept openly on Wednesday as a former National Museum of Naval Aviation employee was sentenced to jail time for stealing artifacts from the museum and selling them on eBay.

Sherrie Shaw of Pace was sentenced to a year and a day in state prison, followed by six years on probation. Shaw was taken into custody moments after Circuit Judge Linda Nobles announced the sentence.

The 44-year-old mother of two also must pay more than $3,200 in restitution -- the estimated value of the items she sold on the popular Internet auction site -- and is prohibited from working in a museum and selling or trading military artifacts.

---

posted December 22, 2005 07:56 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cindy zort:
Well you all got your wish.

---

posted December 22, 2005 03:18 PM               

You know what, nobody on this site really cares one way or the other about your sister, so chill out with your rantings and baseless accusations about what "we" collectors feel or think.

A jury of her peers got to see all the evidence in open court and they made their decision based on the facts. Do you honestly think there's a vendetta against her or that anyone here has the time to devote to conspiring against your sister????

The fact is that we, on this website, are facinated and devoted to the preservation of space history and historical artifacts from the space program. We are on this board for our passion with the space program and to share that passion with like minded others. Period.

What's painfully obvious is how your sister violated the trust given to her by borrowing, stealing, taking or dumpster diving for historical space relics, then selling said items to line her pockets. Do you actually think that anyone believes your sister "FOUND" a flown Mercury boot in the trash, then sold it on Ebay, then was surprised that someone took notice ????

Come on, give us the courtesy of having 2 brain cells and don't curse us for putting 2 and 2 together, then coming up an answer that you don't like.

I have no doubt that your sister is a wonderful person who loves her family and is a great mother. I'm sure she's kind to animals, makes clothes for poor kids in Bangladesh and feeds the homeless. The fact still remains that, as wonderful as your sister is, she did some incredibly stupid things, for which she's going to spend time in jail. Do you honestly think that society enjoys paying to incarcerate your sister because of her own greed or stupidity ??? Don't you think it's your sisters own actions that put her in the situation she's in ???

FACT......Your sister is a thief, she broke the tenants of her responsiblity and trust to protect and maintain historical artifacts. She then sold those stolen items for personal gain to enrich herself. She was paid by the museum to protect and preserve of our space history for generations to enjoy. Unfortunately she chose to violate that trust, for which she's being punished.

I'm sure she's sorry for what she's done now, but like the old addage goes, "It's not how you act when you're in the spotlight, it's how you act when nobody's looking, is the true mark of your character or lack of it". Apparently your sister didn't think anyone was looking, so the true measure of her character was exposed.

Ray

posted December 22, 2005 04:39 PM               

Cindy, the "wish" to which you refer "we" had was not that your sister was found guilty and sentenced, but that the Mercury boot was never stolen and then sold. Our wish was that cases such as your sister's didn't serve to further the divide between collectors and our national museums (and their conservators). Even if we accept that your sister only made a mistake, its one that has far reaching consequences that impacts our community directly.

At the same time, we need to recognize that your family will hurt as a result, and that is equally unfortunate. You certainly didn't do anything to warrant your own life being interrupted, nor did your sister's other family members.

posted December 22, 2005 05:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by cindy zort:
If you knew the whole story maybe you wouldnt be so quick to judge.

---