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Author
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Topic: PPK, OFK and flown flags
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072069 Member Posts: 206 From: Sayreville, NJ USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-10-2004 05:57 AM
Since acquiring a flown Apollo 17 U.S. flag I have been researching such objects in personal preference kits (PPKs) and official flight kits (OFKs) in the Apollo missions. I've managed to unearth a small stack of official NASA documents and memos that shed new light on numbers/types of objects flown, access to flown souvenirs, etc. Flown flags is one of the categories that seems to be missing in "Relics of the Space Race," an otherwise stellar book on the space collecting hobby. I'm hoping to fill in some of the gaps. If anyone has any other NASA documentation of flown Apollo souvenirs (especially U.S. flags) please contact me off the Message Board at hogya@optonline.net -- I'd also be interested in seeing other examples of Apollo flown NASA presentations to use as examples. ll be sharing the results of my study as soon as it is completed. Thanks! |
cosmos-walter Member Posts: 691 From: Salzburg, Austria Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-03-2004 03:37 PM
I wish you success in your research.One of my special fields are space mail. Thus I have been looking for an answer to the question, whether any covers were flown onboard Apollo 8, 10, and 12 moon missions. Please, keep me in mind, if you should find anything regarding those. |
Matt T Member Posts: 1368 From: Chester, Cheshire, UK Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-03-2004 06:32 PM
This is a very vague answer (for which I apologize) but it might jog someone else's memory.In one of the astronaut autobiographies (sorry I've forgotten which one) it mentions that one of the astronaut's wives (I think Dick Gordon's but maybe Al Bean's) was an avid autographed cover collector. It mentions how she would always be sending her kids round to the other astronaut's houses asking them to sign dozens of covers. Assuming I'm right (anyone else remember this?) and it was one of the Apollo 12 crew's wives then she'd have to be worth contacting. I can't imagine any keen cover collector missing the chance to send some to the moon. |
072069 Member Posts: 206 From: Sayreville, NJ USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 02-03-2004 08:05 PM
I've actually expanded the research past flags into virtually everything I could find info on that was taken aboard via PPK and OFK. |
cosmos-walter Member Posts: 691 From: Salzburg, Austria Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-04-2004 05:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by Matt T: (I think Dick Gordon's but maybe Al Bean's) was an avid autographed cover collector.
You are right: Barbara Gordon was keen of collecting astronauts' signatures. She also collected at least one cover flown to moon for each of her children.Late fellow-collector Barbara Baker had a cover flown onboard Apollo 12. When she took it to a stamp exhibition in the 1970ies, it was stolen and never appeared again. Lucky enough I have a photo showing this very cover. During 1991 ASE congress held at Berlin, Germany I met Charles Conrad. While viewing a zoo, he told me that he took some covers on Apollo 12 to the moon. He returned them to the Stamp Club and could not remember, how they looked like and how many they were. Mrs. Radnovsky, who run MSCSC at that time, is not aware of any covers flown onboard Apollo 12. When I asked Dick Gordon about Apollo 12 flown covers, he answered, that the covers prepared for flying with Apollo 12 were taken to the moon not earlier than onboard Apollo 15. NASA Historian Colin Fries sent me an e-mail stating: "I understand your long standing interest in reconstructing the truth that lies behind these allegations of Apollo flown covers. Unfortunately, this office has nothing more on this controversy than it had ten years ago when Lee Saegesser was here and I can add nothing more than was stated in the March 1988 issue of "Astrophile" -- to wit: there are no known space covers that were flown before Apollo 11." |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2913 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-25-2004 05:29 PM
Even to this day, and after discussing this very same issue for years, there are still more questions than answers concerning rather any postal covers went to the moon aboard Apollo 12 (either in lunar orbit or had been on the moon's surface). We know that Barb Gordon had 87 Apollo 12 cachet covers that flew in lunar orbit aboard Apollo 15 that were carried by Irwin, but were never aboard Apollo 12. I have heard of the "Baker/Apollo 12" flown cover, but have never seen it. In speaking with the Conrads over the years, mostly throughout the 1990s, Conrad, to me, seemed uncertain about any flown covers and Nancy just didn't know. Gordon and Bean have reported, but not in much detail, that no covers were flown aboard Apollo 12 (appears to be, and still is, a somewhat "taboo" issue). I've always believed that no covers were carried aboard Apollo 10, however, if Young has any, of course, he has never said anything about them... but he took none with him to the moon aboard Apollo 16, as Duke did with his 25. Yet, as you well know, being an international authority and/or specialist when it comes to flown postal covers and letters, Apollo 8 with Borman is still a mystery, even though Borman indicated that he never recalled such a cover that was signed and notated by him as being in orbit around the moon in Dec. 1968. Other reports, though years ago from close sources, "may" have indicated that such a cover(s) may be authentic. But of course, one simply has to have the proper certificaton and/or documentation to "prove" such a claim. And if Borman says no, even if he didn't want to comment or make public that such a cover could be genuine, what more can be said on the issue? It would certainly be nice, once and for all, to set the record straight when it comes to what type, how many, and what missions did actually fly postal covers to the moon. Apparently, none of the flight crews for Apollos 7 and 9 have indicated that any covers were on those spacecrafts, and the same could be said — I hope with full confidence — that there were no flown covers from earlier Gemini and Mercury orbital flights (neither MR-3/4 as well). Wouldn't you agree? |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2913 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-26-2004 04:57 PM
So there is no misunderstanding, the above remark in reference to, "an international authority and/or specialist when it comes to flown space covers and letters/mail," certainly refers to you. After reading the thread here on collectSPACE, I wanted to make sure readers weren't confused at the wording on that particular sentence. It applies to your dedicated work and long-term efforts in researching and specializing with flown space mail worldwide. | |
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