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posted 05-13-2004 04:30 PM               

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And Nicholas Berg's murderer was Musab al-Zarqawi, Osama Bin Laden's top lieutenant, and perhaps Al-Qaida's #2 man.

So much for all the war opponents/critics who claimed (and still do claim) there was/is no connection between Al-Qaida and Iraq.

[This message has been edited by chet (edited May 13, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited May 13, 2004).]

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posted 05-13-2004 06:02 PM               

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Chet,

Now it's not like you or me to be argumentative or steer the topic on a new tangent. So just cool it, Mister.

Seriously, I have serious doubts about al-Qaeda being a significant part of Iraq in the past (for all Saddam's evil ways and twisted mind, he was never exactly a religous fanatic and al-Qaeda knew that), but they sure as heck are now, aren't they?

That said, I am one of the unfortunate ones who has seen that video. Absolute animals that did that. And it has quelled the growing uproar over the US prison abuse. That wasn't their intent, but that's what happened.

Back to the topic, I cannot imagine the suffering of Nick's family and I only hope that they find peace again one day.

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posted 05-13-2004 07:25 PM               

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While Al-Qaida may not have had free reign in Iraq, I don't think Hussein was exactly showing them the door there either; in either case, I was in favor of Hussein being overthrown by the U.S. anyway, regardless of whether 9/11 had ever happened or not. (Worldwide intelligence about WMDs, and Iraqi intransigence on the matter, made invasion necessary with or without 9/11, IMHO).

As for the suffering of the Berg family, my condolences go out to them, as to all victims of senseless Middle East thuggery.
I only hope it is his current pain and despair, and not his normal way of looking at things, that led Berg's father to announce he believes Bush and Rumsfeld are to blame for his son's murder; (from what I read though, Mr. Berg sounds like he's several slices short of a full loaf in his world views).

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posted 05-13-2004 07:44 PM               

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I personally think Nick's dad has a right to say he believes in the Easter Bunny right now, for that matter. He can say anything he wants. They say the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose a child. Now multiply that times 10 and you have his present situation.

I am not defending Saddam, it is wonderful he is out of power, but he was no friend of Islamic extremism. He took special joy in killing Shiites by the tens of thousands. Yes he was a danger to the world, especially his neighbors, but he had nothing to do with 9/11. He and al-Qaeda were/are 2 separate problems.

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posted 05-13-2004 07:57 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:
I am not defending Saddam, it is wonderful he is out of power, but he was no friend of Islamic extremism. He took special joy in killing Shiites by the tens of thousands. Yes he was a danger to the world, especially his neighbors, but he had nothing to do with 9/11. He and al-Qaeda were/are 2 separate problems.

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Whether or not he was friendly or not to Islamic extremism is less important than that the enemy of my enemy is (sometimes) my friend - - therein lies Hussein's motivation for his allowing Al-Qeida members to operate in Iraq.

But as you say Scott, even if there was NO connection between Al-Qeida and Iraq, BOTH are problems, and both need to be dealt with. Glad we agree on that.

And of course Mr. Berg can say whatever he wants; he could whether or not he had just lost his son, or what manner his death; I was only commenting on the lucidity of his statements. Somehow I don't think his views were much different even when his son was still alive.

[This message has been edited by chet (edited May 13, 2004).]

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From: Houston, TX
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posted 05-13-2004 08:04 PM               

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Realizing this is the Free Space forum, I've given a bit of slack for off-topic posts (as even the subject line of this thread cautioned) but the current discussion has gone off on a tangent that is at its best distasteful and at it worst void of any compassion whatsoever.

Therefore, I would ask that if you want to further discuss the politics of the war that you visit the myriad of websites and discussion groups that focus on such topics, for they will welcome your contributions with open arms.

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posted 05-14-2004 01:00 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by chet:
Robert, I humbly, and respectfully, disagree.

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Chet, while I'm not a mind reader I think perhaps Robert was referring to the comment about Mr. Berg's world views being "several slices short of a full loaf."

You weren't attacking the late Mr. Berg personally and I tend to agree with you, Chet. Several items seem to indicate a naïveté on Mr. Berg's part that proved fatal:

1. He was traveling alone on his own in Iraq without a guide

2. Who invited him into Iraq? Apparently he came in on his own seeking some sort of reconstruction business deals.

3. He was there possibly without the knowledge of Iraqi or coalition forces. He was detained by the Iraqi security and questioned about his business being in Iraq - and rightly so. Perhaps they suspected he could be another Johnny "the Taliban" Walker Lynde.

4. His passport had been stamped in Israel.

All in all, while Mr. Berg's death was a terrible tragedy because he did not nothing to deserve being murdered savagely in cold blood, I think Chet's opinions in this regard does have some merit.

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posted 05-14-2004 01:21 PM               

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No mind reading necessary: it is distasteful to use a topic started to express sympathies for the loss of a individual to advance political opinions, whether your own or those expressed by others.

Please take the discussion of Mr. Berg's and his families' decisions elsewhere.

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posted 05-14-2004 01:39 PM               

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Robert, you are right on about this.

It is inappropriate in my opinion in a situation like this to even imply any kind of blame on Nick Berg's part or criticize his family in any way, least of all in a thread started to send sympathy.

You don't attend the funeral of a friend's child who has died in a car wreck and tell them, "You know, I'm really sorry about what happened, but they should have been wearing a seat belt." Have a little compassion, or else keep it to yourself, please.

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posted 05-14-2004 03:06 PM               

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Robert, you state what I did was inarguably distasteful; again, I respectfully disagree.
I believe what I did was not irrelevant.

Scott, where did I, in ANY way, shape or form, impart any kind of blame to Nick Berg?
And FYI, and under the circumstances, I would never say directly to Nick Berg's father what I wrote here;
I know CS is a pretty popular website, but I didn't think the elder Mr. Berg
would be reading my comments.....
Contrary to what you may believe, I feel a great deal of compassion.
You may also believe you're a better person than I, and that's fine, but I,
unlike you, apparently, don't believe compassion is something to be dispensed in equal degrees to all, unqualifiedly. If that makes me a monster, I can live with the label.

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posted 05-14-2004 05:17 PM               

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Since this off subject thread is already off topic, thought you might be interested in a piece that appeared in Mr. Berg's home town paper the Philadelphia Inquirer on May 13 entitled "What Led Him to Iraq?: Berg's journey sparked FBI probe and other strange details."

The article tries to clear away some of the confusion and examine the obvious issues that have been raised in this thread. It also tries to piece together the epilogue of his life during his last days on the good spaceship Earth.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/8654371.htm?ERIGHTS=-4176555458365428355philly