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Author
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Topic: Backup crew assignments for Apollo 17
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ashot
Member Posts: 37
From:
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 08-22-2022 12:09 PM
  
Doesn't it look strange that Jim Irwin, after developing the heart problem during his flight on Apollo 15, was assigned to the backup crew of Apollo 17?In a similar situation, Deke Slayton was grounded, but Irwin was not (and, unlike Slayton, Irwin ended up with his first heart attack in just two years after the discovery of the problem). Was his problem then associated with the potassium loss only, so Irwin was basically cleared to continue? |
PowerCat
Member Posts: 213
From: Herington, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-22-2022 12:44 PM
The entire crew of Apollo 15 originally was the backup crew for Apollo 17 until they were replaced (following the stamps issue) in May 1972. The final backup crew was John Young, Stu Roosa and Charlie Duke. |
MartinAir
Member Posts: 214
From:
Registered: Oct 2020
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posted 08-22-2022 12:47 PM
The original backup crew was announced at the same time as the prime crew and later (May 72') was replaced by the new backup crew — Young, Roosa and Duke. Not sure whether the heart condition played a role in that decision though. |
ashot
Member Posts: 37
From:
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 08-22-2022 01:03 PM
To be more precise with my question: by the time the Apollo 15 crew was assigned to backup Apollo 17, Irwin's problem was known. And yet he was still assigned. (Slayton was removed from his flight for a lesser problem.) As to Irwin — wasn't that Chuck Berry who said that had he'd have to put him in the ICU had he been on ground? So why to remove Slayton with a lesser problem (I know this was 9 years before and times were different) and to still keep Irwin with much more serious heart condition? |
MartinAir
Member Posts: 214
From:
Registered: Oct 2020
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posted 08-22-2022 01:46 PM
Was it? As far as I know the first symptoms were noticed during the final CSM/LM separation. |
Grounded!
Member Posts: 510
From: Bennington, Vermont, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted 08-22-2022 03:13 PM
Anyone, astronaut or not would be at high risk for ventricular arrhythmias with a low potassium level, with or without a history of heart disease. With the benefit of hindsight, its easy to second guess but one has to assume that Irwin was checked over carefully prior to any further assignments. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3498
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-22-2022 03:44 PM
Even before the stamps issue, Jim Irwin never expected to walk on the Moon twice. As he wrote in his autobiography, "To Rule the Night": I was faced with a good six months of intensive training...all for a job I would never do, for I was backing up Jack Schmitt. Even if he broke a leg, I know they would delay the flight until it healed, so intent were they on getting a scientist on the Moon. |
Skylon
Member Posts: 314
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 08-22-2022 03:55 PM
Yeah, this is the key point. If Irwin checked out okay in his post-flight physicals then he was cleared to fly. Slayton’s condition was not the result of circumstances but a “defect” that was not well understood at the time. He and Irwin should not be compared on this one. |
ashot
Member Posts: 37
From:
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 08-23-2022 03:17 AM
You get straight to the point, Skylon! It just likely means that the check-out procedure apparently allowed someone who had a potential problem (which surfaced quite soon, by the way) to still pass it. |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 329
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-24-2022 12:01 PM
People do die though. So if Schmitt had died rather than broken a leg, would Irwin have flown? |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1112
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 08-24-2022 01:26 PM
Or Joe Engle? |
MartinAir
Member Posts: 214
From:
Registered: Oct 2020
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posted 08-24-2022 01:50 PM
NASA wanted a scientist on the final mission. In the worst case, the mission would have been postponed and/or Schmitt replaced either by Duke or another scientist astronaut. |
Kite
Member Posts: 1043
From: Northampton UK
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 08-24-2022 04:53 PM
Tony England was I believe the only other geologist available but was probably too far down the pecking order. |
Skylon
Member Posts: 314
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 08-25-2022 07:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MartinAir:
In the worst case, the mission would have been postponed...
Postponed until when though? I could see an illness postponement but not in case of death of serious injury. Jack Schmitt was the only scientist with the training to really be slotted for a prime crew. Maybe Don Lind who at least had some solid familiarity with Apollo but he had never served on an Apollo backup crew. If Jack Schmitt explodes on the day HQ shoots down Deke’s submitted crew of Cernan, Evans and Engle then maybe another scientist-astronaut could get it. There may be a window where Joe Engle could get it. If it happens November, 1972 then the backup, Charlie Duke, is going. |
Henry Heatherbank
Member Posts: 298
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 08-25-2022 08:19 PM
In my view, Duke flies under most most scenarios. As much as they wanted a geologist on the Moon, they also wanted the lunar program over (reference Gilruth's private plea to Cernan “no white scarf stuff, just get back alive.") They needed to move on and I can't see a realistic scenario where 17 gets delayed to, say, February 1973 to get a non-backup scientist astronaut like Tony England or Don Lind up to speed. |
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